NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

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MilbankAlum

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby MilbankAlum » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Current Weil/KE restructuring associate here, really not sure where this is coming from. The world of restructuring professionals is a small one and associates at top firms absolutely can and do switch sides regularly.


Does this hold true for associates at Skadden/DPW/CGSH? I'm curious about these top firms with restructuring groups that may not be as well regarded as K&E/Weil.


Go on Linkedin, run an advanced search, and see how many associates you can find. There should be a couple of associates who made such a switch every year.

Have 2 friends at WLRK trying to make the switch to RX and one more trying to switch to M&A at EB/BB, but with no success after months of trying. FWIW.
switch to m&a banking or law?


Would assume banking - EB/BB refers to elite boutique / bulge bracket.

Would also just suggest that at banks across the street, seems like the summer associate offer rate was in the 50-60% range, primarily because of a sudden projected downturn in markets for next year. No need to take a guy whose main skill is negotiating purchase agreements when there are kids who have the proven financial chops who aren't getting jobs.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:14 pm

what is the job prospect after a term clerkship with a relatively busy (but non SDNY/ DE) bankruptcy court? main focus is biglaw NYC restructuring. Top grade at T20

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:what is the job prospect after a term clerkship with a relatively busy (but non SDNY/ DE) bankruptcy court? main focus is biglaw NYC restructuring. Top grade at T20


Doing a BK clerkship outside of SDNY/DE is unlikely to help much.

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hangold

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby hangold » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:30 pm

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Last edited by hangold on Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:57 pm

So from what I hear from friends at my firm and at similar V100s, bankruptcy is one of the toughest (if not THE toughest) practice group, especially for juniors, but also the most interesting. Seems like my friends in restructuring group are getting way more substantive work than anyone else I know and not a whole lot of diligence/doc review, standard work juniors complain about.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby MCFC » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:40 am

hangold wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:what is the job prospect after a term clerkship with a relatively busy (but non SDNY/ DE) bankruptcy court? main focus is biglaw NYC restructuring. Top grade at T20


If you have the grades and cannot procure a SDNY/DE BK clerkship, I recommend going straight to a firm with a strong BK group (think K&E, Weil, Skadden, DPW, Milbank, Kramer Levin). The benefits of other BK clerkships will not be significant enough to justify the opportunity cost of foregoing a year at a firm.

I believe the poster is clerking right now and is asking about prospects afterwards.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:what is the job prospect after a term clerkship with a relatively busy (but non SDNY/ DE) bankruptcy court? main focus is biglaw NYC restructuring. Top grade at T20


It's certainly possible, but I don't know how common it is. My group has a few S.D. Tex./N.D. Ill. clerks who didn't go to a T-14. It also depends on where in the business cycle the practice is-hiring in BK over the past year or so has been relatively high because of all the E&P companies filing, but it definitely won't last forever.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So from what I hear from friends at my firm and at similar V100s, bankruptcy is one of the toughest (if not THE toughest) practice group, especially for juniors, but also the most interesting. Seems like my friends in restructuring group are getting way more substantive work than anyone else I know and not a whole lot of diligence/doc review, standard work juniors complain about.


This is pretty much accurate. Bankruptcy really is as tough as it gets in terms of workload, though I don't think it's particularly worse for juniors (it's rough for everyone). But at the same time, you're doing far more interesting stuff than you'd be doing in other groups. In fact, when we need to diligence/doc review/other awful work we actually outsource it all to other groups.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:47 pm

are there busy times and less busy times in this practice group or is just always nuts so far as workload goes? Also, is it any more predictable than M&A or corporate?

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:are there busy times and less busy times in this practice group or is just always nuts so far as workload goes? Also, is it any more predictable than M&A or corporate?


Work is cyclical, if the economy's good we're generally slower. Having said that, our group is insanely busy right now (at Weil/KE) and everyone, first years included, has been working 60+ hour weeks regularly. Predictability is ok, not great, we can generally see things coming and plan accordingly, but fire drills are basically the norm.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:are there busy times and less busy times in this practice group or is just always nuts so far as workload goes? Also, is it any more predictable than M&A or corporate?


Work is cyclical, if the economy's good we're generally slower. Having said that, our group is insanely busy right now (at Weil/KE) and everyone, first years included, has been working 60+ hour weeks regularly. Predictability is ok, not great, we can generally see things coming and plan accordingly, but fire drills are basically the norm.


even though it sounds like they work hard, most bankruptcy people have told me that they are generally more interested in their work and enjoy it more than their corporate and lit counterpart and they get more responsibility earlier. Do you feel similarly?

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:are there busy times and less busy times in this practice group or is just always nuts so far as workload goes? Also, is it any more predictable than M&A or corporate?


Work is cyclical, if the economy's good we're generally slower. Having said that, our group is insanely busy right now (at Weil/KE) and everyone, first years included, has been working 60+ hour weeks regularly. Predictability is ok, not great, we can generally see things coming and plan accordingly, but fire drills are basically the norm.


even though it sounds like they work hard, most bankruptcy people have told me that they are generally more interested in their work and enjoy it more than their corporate and lit counterpart and they get more responsibility earlier. Do you feel similarly?

Did a stint as a junior in the bankruptcy group at a non-Weil/KE firm that has been mentioned ITT and this was certainly my experience. Especially when compared to people I interacted with in other practice groups, those doing bankruptcy seemed much more interested in their practice in general instead of viewing it as a means to an end.

I also got more experience than I knew what to do with, the triage model really lends itself to distributing work according to who has capacity as opposed to according to the more or less rigid hierarchy of other groups. Did many tasks that those other groups would probably reserve for mid-levels because the mid-levels were underwater doing other things.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:16 pm

are there any material differences in workload/cyclical nature between debtor side BK (weil/KE) and creditor side BK (dpw/milbank)? TYIA!

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:are there busy times and less busy times in this practice group or is just always nuts so far as workload goes? Also, is it any more predictable than M&A or corporate?


Work is cyclical, if the economy's good we're generally slower. Having said that, our group is insanely busy right now (at Weil/KE) and everyone, first years included, has been working 60+ hour weeks regularly. Predictability is ok, not great, we can generally see things coming and plan accordingly, but fire drills are basically the norm.


even though it sounds like they work hard, most bankruptcy people have told me that they are generally more interested in their work and enjoy it more than their corporate and lit counterpart and they get more responsibility earlier. Do you feel similarly?

Did a stint as a junior in the bankruptcy group at a non-Weil/KE firm that has been mentioned ITT and this was certainly my experience. Especially when compared to people I interacted with in other practice groups, those doing bankruptcy seemed much more interested in their practice in general instead of viewing it as a means to an end.

I also got more experience than I knew what to do with, the triage model really lends itself to distributing work according to who has capacity as opposed to according to the more or less rigid hierarchy of other groups. Did many tasks that those other groups would probably reserve for mid-levels because the mid-levels were underwater doing other things.


I agree with both of those points. People in our group are genuinely interested in the work we're doing and the experience is really pretty much unbeatable. Also, the early responsibility is borderline overwhelming.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:what is the job prospect after a term clerkship with a relatively busy (but non SDNY/ DE) bankruptcy court? main focus is biglaw NYC restructuring. Top grade at T20


It's certainly possible, but I don't know how common it is. My group has a few S.D. Tex./N.D. Ill. clerks who didn't go to a T-14. It also depends on where in the business cycle the practice is-hiring in BK over the past year or so has been relatively high because of all the E&P companies filing, but it definitely won't last forever.


I did a bankruptcy clerkship in non- DE/SDNY district with a decent amount of ch. 11s and also went to a T-20 with good grades like the poster above. Was able to get a job at a top bankruptcy firm with very little difficulty, and other clerks I know in similar situations got jobs at peer firms as well. As others have mentioned, bankruptcy is on an upswing right now, but I'd imagine the job search will be much more difficult during the inevitable down swing.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:what is the job prospect after a term clerkship with a relatively busy (but non SDNY/ DE) bankruptcy court? main focus is biglaw NYC restructuring. Top grade at T20


It's certainly possible, but I don't know how common it is. My group has a few S.D. Tex./N.D. Ill. clerks who didn't go to a T-14. It also depends on where in the business cycle the practice is-hiring in BK over the past year or so has been relatively high because of all the E&P companies filing, but it definitely won't last forever.


I did a bankruptcy clerkship in non- DE/SDNY district with a decent amount of ch. 11s and also went to a T-20 with good grades like the poster above. Was able to get a job at a top bankruptcy firm with very little difficulty, and other clerks I know in similar situations got jobs at peer firms as well. As others have mentioned, bankruptcy is on an upswing right now, but I'd imagine the job search will be much more difficult during the inevitable down swing.


How long do you think upswing will last? Also, what do bankruptcy lawyers do when there is a downswing? Practice other areas of law?

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:30 pm

I'm 50 percent sure bankruptcy groups are filled with litigators when theres a downturn

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:are there any material differences in workload/cyclical nature between debtor side BK (weil/KE) and creditor side BK (dpw/milbank)? TYIA!

This is a difficult question because KE and to a lesser extent Weil run bigger bankruptcy groups than the creditor side ones so I imagine any given associate at those firms doing debtor work is going to be on like 2 cases while those on the creditor side may be on 4 or 5. I'd expect KE/Weil to have occasional slow days or weeks followed with periodic all-nighter type fire drills while the creditor side is going to be a stable high volume.

Tough to say in a vacuum though, there are so few associates practicing bankruptcy in NY that it's tough to make statistically significant comparisons, not to mention KE/Weil are very different firms generally than DPW/Milbank and who knows to what extent that plays in.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:are there any material differences in workload/cyclical nature between debtor side BK (weil/KE) and creditor side BK (dpw/milbank)? TYIA!

This is a difficult question because KE and to a lesser extent Weil run bigger bankruptcy groups than the creditor side ones so I imagine any given associate at those firms doing debtor work is going to be on like 2 cases while those on the creditor side may be on 4 or 5. I'd expect KE/Weil to have occasional slow days or weeks followed with periodic all-nighter type fire drills while the creditor side is going to be a stable high volume.

Tough to say in a vacuum though, there are so few associates practicing bankruptcy in NY that it's tough to make statistically significant comparisons, not to mention KE/Weil are very different firms generally than DPW/Milbank and who knows to what extent that plays in.


Weil/KE associate from above, it's true that associates here are staffed on fewer cases at a time than some creditor side shops, but that doesn't mean we have slow days or weeks. That's not how debtor side works, add in the fact that we're crazy busy right now in terms of volume and it's more like stable high volume + multiple fire drills/week.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:17 pm

I've done both company and creditor work and I prefer the creditor work. A lot of company-side attorneys will probably say the work is uninteresting, but I prefer the stability and fewer fire drills. Although that's not always the case, particularly if you have a secured creditor running the show.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I've done both company and creditor work and I prefer the creditor work. A lot of company-side attorneys will probably say the work is uninteresting, but I prefer the stability and fewer fire drills. Although that's not always the case, particularly if you have a secured creditor running the show.


Are lawyers from debtor places like KE/Weil attractive lateral candidates to creditor places later on in career? Or is the work too different to make a seemless transition to the other side.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've done both company and creditor work and I prefer the creditor work. A lot of company-side attorneys will probably say the work is uninteresting, but I prefer the stability and fewer fire drills. Although that's not always the case, particularly if you have a secured creditor running the show.


Are lawyers from debtor places like KE/Weil attractive lateral candidates to creditor places later on in career? Or is the work too different to make a seemless transition to the other side.

Poster from above. I think you can transition between the two. Some creditor firms like previous experience with out of court restructurings, receiverships, and ABCs, which you may not encounter as much at the bigger debtor firms.

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Re: NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've done both company and creditor work and I prefer the creditor work. A lot of company-side attorneys will probably say the work is uninteresting, but I prefer the stability and fewer fire drills. Although that's not always the case, particularly if you have a secured creditor running the show.


Are lawyers from debtor places like KE/Weil attractive lateral candidates to creditor places later on in career? Or is the work too different to make a seemless transition to the other side.

The major (secured) creditor-side players are filled with laterals from each. The practices are very related the allocation of primary responsibility for documents just changes. BOTH SIDES will be looped into pre-filing negotiations, BOTH SIDES will generally have notice and often review of each other's filings and BOTH SIDES will be at the same hearings prepared to defend the same filings.

If you are trying to make the jump into a firm that focuses its practice on trolling unsecured representations to turn 2 cent recoveries into 5 cent recoveries or if your debtor practice has consisted mostly of involuntaries/free falls then it may be a different story but 80%+ of the debtor cases your typical K&E/Weil associate looking to lateral has been involved with were likely pre-negotiated as between the Company and either or both of its first or second lien constituencies. (Not to say they aren't still contentious, only that there is overlap between the two practices)



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