What the hell is going on

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

How many CBs have you gotten so far?

0
18
8%
1
9
4%
2
15
7%
3
12
6%
4+
159
75%
 
Total votes: 213

eyeofvigilence

Bronze
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:49 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby eyeofvigilence » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:Tippy-top grades at CLS: I got 18 of 22 CBs from OCI and an 4/5 so far on converting CBs to offers (2 of these were pre-OCI). All my friends I talked to are doing similarly well (don't know their grades but I think they're all pretty smart)


Who says "tippy-top" anyways? Yeah, I'm sure all the associates and partners are going to love having you as an SA...

stoopkid13

Bronze
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:31 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby stoopkid13 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Tippy-top grades at CLS: I got 18 of 22 CBs from OCI and an 4/5 so far on converting CBs to offers (2 of these were pre-OCI). All my friends I talked to are doing similarly well (don't know their grades but I think they're all pretty smart)


Why are you posting here?


Well, people have been saying feast or famine and CLS anon isn't the first to post on the feast side. If anything, goes to show that summer hiring isn't actually down.

User avatar
El Pollito

Diamond
Posts: 20141
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:11 pm

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby El Pollito » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:31 am

Sorry scared and afraid people with 0 CBs, hiring isn't down, you're just turds!

suralin

Diamond
Posts: 18586
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:52 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby suralin » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:35 am

eyeofvigilence wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Tippy-top grades at CLS: I got 18 of 22 CBs from OCI and an 4/5 so far on converting CBs to offers (2 of these were pre-OCI). All my friends I talked to are doing similarly well (don't know their grades but I think they're all pretty smart)


Who says "tippy-top" anyways? Yeah, I'm sure all the associates and partners are going to love having you as an SA...

banned. stop abusing anon, christ

User avatar
jbagelboy

Diamond
Posts: 10257
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Tippy-top grades at CLS: I got 18 of 22 CBs from OCI and an 4/5 so far on converting CBs to offers (2 of these were pre-OCI). All my friends I talked to are doing similarly well (don't know their grades but I think they're all pretty smart)


Why are you posting here?


Sorry, I thought we were debating whether there was a change in OCI this year? My experience and the experience of my friends has been good. Frankly I'm confused by the Yale and Harvard people on here getting nothing


Well first there's a huge difference between a top CCN student and middle of the road or worse HLS student; the former is far better positioned than the latter. But second, its fine to be successful, I'm responding more to the people accusing those at other schools who aren't having as good a go of it of the problems having to do with them.

Anonymous User
Posts: 316357
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Tippy-top grades at CLS: I got 18 of 22 CBs from OCI and an 4/5 so far on converting CBs to offers (2 of these were pre-OCI). All my friends I talked to are doing similarly well (don't know their grades but I think they're all pretty smart)


Who says "tippy-top" anyways? Yeah, I'm sure all the associates and partners are going to love having you as an SA...


Great use of anon here dude. If you type it in your search bar, at the top of the page, you'll get 700+ hits on TLS, and they certainly weren't all from me.

Sorry if I rubbed people the wrong way. I thought we were debating whether OCI has changed, and I'm not the only person who posted about successes. Was just sharing the #anecdotes of me and my friends just like everyone else on here has been. Not sure how we can figure out if there has actually been a change if only the people who have had bad luck are allowed to post about it

User avatar
jbagelboy

Diamond
Posts: 10257
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Tippy-top grades at CLS: I got 18 of 22 CBs from OCI and an 4/5 so far on converting CBs to offers (2 of these were pre-OCI). All my friends I talked to are doing similarly well (don't know their grades but I think they're all pretty smart)


Who says "tippy-top" anyways? Yeah, I'm sure all the associates and partners are going to love having you as an SA...


Great use of anon here dude. If you type it in your search bar, at the top of the page, you'll get 700+ hits on TLS, and they certainly weren't all from me.

Sorry if I rubbed people the wrong way. I thought we were debating whether OCI has changed, and I'm not the only person who posted about successes. Was just sharing the #anecdotes of me and my friends just like everyone else on here has been. Not sure how we can figure out if there has actually been a change if only the people who have had bad luck are allowed to post about it


Fwiw while your post was not really necessary, it was by coincidence that it crossed with mine, I wasn't responding to you/that didn't rub me the wrong way per se

Anonymous User
Posts: 316357
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:45 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Tippy-top grades at CLS: I got 18 of 22 CBs from OCI and an 4/5 so far on converting CBs to offers (2 of these were pre-OCI). All my friends I talked to are doing similarly well (don't know their grades but I think they're all pretty smart)


Who says "tippy-top" anyways? Yeah, I'm sure all the associates and partners are going to love having you as an SA...


Great use of anon here dude. If you type it in your search bar, at the top of the page, you'll get 700+ hits on TLS, and they certainly weren't all from me.

Sorry if I rubbed people the wrong way. I thought we were debating whether OCI has changed, and I'm not the only person who posted about successes. Was just sharing the #anecdotes of me and my friends just like everyone else on here has been. Not sure how we can figure out if there has actually been a change if only the people who have had bad luck are allowed to post about it


Fwiw while your post was not really necessary, it was by coincidence that it crossed with mine, I wasn't responding to you/that didn't rub me the wrong way per se


No worries, I didn't read your post like that at all.

stoopkid13

Bronze
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:31 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby stoopkid13 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:54 am

El Pollito wrote:Sorry scared and afraid people with 0 CBs, hiring isn't down, you're just turds!


Well, I haven't looked at NALP recruitment reports for every firm (maybe someone with more time or neuroses can do this) but from what I've seen, there is no pattern of smaller expected summer classes. If anything, I think summer classes are expected to be larger. Admittedly varies by firm.

GoneSouth

Bronze
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby GoneSouth » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:19 am

stoopkid13 wrote:
El Pollito wrote:Sorry scared and afraid people with 0 CBs, hiring isn't down, you're just turds!


Well, I haven't looked at NALP recruitment reports for every firm (maybe someone with more time or neuroses can do this) but from what I've seen, there is no pattern of smaller expected summer classes. If anything, I think summer classes are expected to be larger. Admittedly varies by firm.


I'm skeptical that overall hiring is down. I would bet that OCI hiring is necessarily down given the large number of pre-OCI offers.

From talking to our OCS before EIP, I know they were petrified about the system collapsing. Seems like it's starting to.

Anonymous User
Posts: 316357
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:27 am

GoneSouth wrote:
stoopkid13 wrote:
El Pollito wrote:Sorry scared and afraid people with 0 CBs, hiring isn't down, you're just turds!


Well, I haven't looked at NALP recruitment reports for every firm (maybe someone with more time or neuroses can do this) but from what I've seen, there is no pattern of smaller expected summer classes. If anything, I think summer classes are expected to be larger. Admittedly varies by firm.


I'm skeptical that overall hiring is down. I would bet that OCI hiring is necessarily down given the large number of pre-OCI offers.

From talking to our OCS before EIP, I know they were petrified about the system collapsing. Seems like it's starting to.


I think this is the biggest thing as well. Whether hiring is actually down or not is something we just aren't aware of yet. However, in light of pre-oci, it has really f*&^ed up oci this year for most people not in the 10% of their class at their t14. Whereas last year at my t14 if you were median you were still getting 10-15 NY callbacks, instead people in the top 20% only have 2-3 cbs and median has maybe 1 if you are lucky. Its a much different world out there right now and career services are losing their minds.

Oci has started to become what happened to OSCAR. The cat is out of the bag and I bet next year we see career services telling students to apply the day they get grades instead of telling us that we shouldn't MM until after OCI. We are seeing the death-throws of OCI.

Edit: Also I think pre-oci is not only going to continue but be stronger next year. The reason: the lottery system for t14 schools at OCI. For pre-oci, they can screen the resumes they want and invite students in for CBs earlier. This does three things. 1- Being able to CB kids in the city already, so less recruiting expense for traveling to OCIs. 2- you get to screen the candidates which they don't get to do at OCI (for t14 schools). 3- The firms have started to realize they are competing earlier and earlier for the talent, so they will continue to move up the timeline (exactly as it happened with judicial clerkship hiring). For example, Gibson Dunn in DC was freaking out that they didn't do cbs before OCI because every peer firm in DC already had.

Anonymous User
Posts: 316357
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:33 am

The OSCAR comparison is real. However, if many biglaw firms decide to stop interviewing students early, things will change. They don't really have any incentive to do so, though. My firm has a strict policy of no early interviews for anyone.

GoneSouth

Bronze
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby GoneSouth » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:38 am

I think this year is the tipping point for OCI. Either NALP/the schools get together and put a stop to the pre-OCI situation. Or OCI is going to essentially collapse.

I have to think that some firms also aren't loving the pre-OCI thing, because top 10% students are collecting a bunch of offers that they can hold open through OCI, which means they have to be cautious in extending more OCI offers while knowing that the pre-OCI students are probably picking between 10 different firms so their yield might not be great there. I wouldn't be surprised if some firms end up with smaller class sizes than they budgeted for, or if there is some late scrambling after the pre-OCI offers expire around the end of the month.

runinthefront

Gold
Posts: 2155
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:18 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby runinthefront » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:40 am

GoneSouth wrote:I think this year is the tipping point for OCI. Either NALP/the schools get together and put a stop to the pre-OCI situation. Or OCI is going to essentially collapse.

I have to think that some firms also aren't loving the pre-OCI thing, because top 10% students are collecting a bunch of offers that they can hold open through OCI, which means they have to be cautious in extending more OCI offers while knowing that the pre-OCI students are probably picking between 10 different firms so their yield might not be great there. I wouldn't be surprised if some firms end up with smaller class sizes than they budgeted for, or if there is some late scrambling after the pre-OCI offers expire around the end of the month.


It's up to biglaw legal recruiting departments. Not schools. If schools stop letting kids do Pre-OCI callbacks (and actually enforce the rule), just lol.

GoneSouth

Bronze
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby GoneSouth » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:48 am

runinthefront wrote:
GoneSouth wrote:I think this year is the tipping point for OCI. Either NALP/the schools get together and put a stop to the pre-OCI situation. Or OCI is going to essentially collapse.

I have to think that some firms also aren't loving the pre-OCI thing, because top 10% students are collecting a bunch of offers that they can hold open through OCI, which means they have to be cautious in extending more OCI offers while knowing that the pre-OCI students are probably picking between 10 different firms so their yield might not be great there. I wouldn't be surprised if some firms end up with smaller class sizes than they budgeted for, or if there is some late scrambling after the pre-OCI offers expire around the end of the month.


It's up to biglaw legal recruiting departments. Not schools. If schools stop letting kids do Pre-OCI callbacks (and actually enforce the rule), just lol.


I mean yes, but schools, especially the top ones also have some leverage with the schools. Firms want to be able to have a presence on campus as speakers on panels, hosting events, etc. They want to be in the schools' good graces. If it was completely up to the firms, there wouldn't be a pure lottery system for OCI

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre

Gold
Posts: 2020
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:55 am

El Pollito wrote:Sorry scared and afraid people with 0 CBs, hiring isn't down, you're just turds!


Look, I'm sympathetic to the paranoia and fear that happens this time of year, and my heart goes out to people with no callbacks. Biglaw hiring is a fucking stupid process that hires people kind of haphazardly, and a lot of meritorious people get left out.

I just don't think misinformation should be spread on the basis of comfort. This process sucks and it can be actually very difficult to reliably connect with interviewers (I don't care what anyone says; it's not at all like "a regular conversation"). But hiring is not down, or at least, there's absolutely zero evidence to suggest it is.

favabeansoup

Bronze
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:26 pm

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby favabeansoup » Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:41 am

It's not even August 15th and people are saying they have struck out....I get that firms are doing a lot more pre-OCI hiring, but come on don't be diagnosing this year's hiring patterns this freaking early.

If anyone looks at the OCI threads for the previous years it is literally all the same worries and fears as everyone is having here. It's always been feast or famine at OCI, this year isn't that special. You always have below medians getting offers while some above medians don't get anything. You always have callbacks come in waves and some people get them before others.

Just to give some words of encouragement to those still waiting, I knew several people last cycle who didn't get CB/offer until early October. My firm had the largest SA class in years last year, and we aren't expecting to make it smaller this year (at least significantly so). I know several other firms in this market who are in similar positions. Granted this is non-NYC.

Still best of luck to everyone who doesn't have anything at all, and remember it just takes one. People with several offers, make up you fucking minds because firms and your friends don't like waiting on you for a month to decline them and open up space.

User avatar
Toni V

Bronze
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:42 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Toni V » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:58 am

My V firm had a robust number of SAs. I heard everyone was offered ― point being, hiring is not down. I remember my LS cohorts from two years ago freaking out during OCI ― this is a LS phase that is baked into the cake.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse

Diamond
Posts: 29317
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:59 am

Toni V wrote:My V firm had a robust number of SAs. I heard everyone was offered ― point being, hiring is not down. I remember my LS cohorts from two years ago freaking out during OCI ― this is a LS phase that is baked into the cake.

Offering everyone who was in your already-established SA class is not at all the same thing as deciding how many to hire for the next SA class, though.

BigZuck

Diamond
Posts: 11731
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby BigZuck » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:39 pm

I'm starting to come around to the idea that the class of 2016 uniformly failed the bar and the class of 2018 uniformly struck out

Either that, or law students gonna law student

User avatar
El Pollito

Diamond
Posts: 20141
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:11 pm

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby El Pollito » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:02 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
El Pollito wrote:Sorry scared and afraid people with 0 CBs, hiring isn't down, you're just turds!


Look, I'm sympathetic to the paranoia and fear that happens this time of year, and my heart goes out to people with no callbacks. Biglaw hiring is a fucking stupid process that hires people kind of haphazardly, and a lot of meritorious people get left out.

I just don't think misinformation should be spread on the basis of comfort. This process sucks and it can be actually very difficult to reliably connect with interviewers (I don't care what anyone says; it's not at all like "a regular conversation"). But hiring is not down, or at least, there's absolutely zero evidence to suggest it is.

How is it misinformation? Sounds like classes started filling up pre-formal OCI.

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre

Gold
Posts: 2020
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:07 pm

El Pollito wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
El Pollito wrote:Sorry scared and afraid people with 0 CBs, hiring isn't down, you're just turds!


Look, I'm sympathetic to the paranoia and fear that happens this time of year, and my heart goes out to people with no callbacks. Biglaw hiring is a fucking stupid process that hires people kind of haphazardly, and a lot of meritorious people get left out.

I just don't think misinformation should be spread on the basis of comfort. This process sucks and it can be actually very difficult to reliably connect with interviewers (I don't care what anyone says; it's not at all like "a regular conversation"). But hiring is not down, or at least, there's absolutely zero evidence to suggest it is.

How is it misinformation? Sounds like classes started filling up pre-formal OCI.


Unless there's any indication the people getting pre-OCI offers weren't the ones who were gonna crush it at OCI regardless, no one has been disadvantaged by that.

GoneSouth

Bronze
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby GoneSouth » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:21 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
El Pollito wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
El Pollito wrote:Sorry scared and afraid people with 0 CBs, hiring isn't down, you're just turds!


Look, I'm sympathetic to the paranoia and fear that happens this time of year, and my heart goes out to people with no callbacks. Biglaw hiring is a fucking stupid process that hires people kind of haphazardly, and a lot of meritorious people get left out.

I just don't think misinformation should be spread on the basis of comfort. This process sucks and it can be actually very difficult to reliably connect with interviewers (I don't care what anyone says; it's not at all like "a regular conversation"). But hiring is not down, or at least, there's absolutely zero evidence to suggest it is.

How is it misinformation? Sounds like classes started filling up pre-formal OCI.


Unless there's any indication the people getting pre-OCI offers weren't the ones who were gonna crush it at OCI regardless, no one has been disadvantaged by that.


They probably were the people who were going to crush it at OCI, but since they don't have to bid the firms at OCI that they did pre-OCI interviews with, they might be doing screeners with additional firms that they wouldn't have done screeners with before.

Anonymous User
Posts: 316357
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:21 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
El Pollito wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
El Pollito wrote:Sorry scared and afraid people with 0 CBs, hiring isn't down, you're just turds!


Look, I'm sympathetic to the paranoia and fear that happens this time of year, and my heart goes out to people with no callbacks. Biglaw hiring is a fucking stupid process that hires people kind of haphazardly, and a lot of meritorious people get left out.

I just don't think misinformation should be spread on the basis of comfort. This process sucks and it can be actually very difficult to reliably connect with interviewers (I don't care what anyone says; it's not at all like "a regular conversation"). But hiring is not down, or at least, there's absolutely zero evidence to suggest it is.

How is it misinformation? Sounds like classes started filling up pre-formal OCI.


Unless there's any indication the people getting pre-OCI offers weren't the ones who were gonna crush it at OCI regardless, no one has been disadvantaged by that.


That logic is not sound. Tons of pre-OCI offers is most certainly going to disadvantage people who aren't in the top 10%. If firms already have offers out, the amount of CBs immediately following OCI is going to drop, which is what everyone is panicking about. A lot of people aren't saying overall hiring is down, people are just saying in comparison to previous cycles, people's CB numbers are comparatively lower.

User avatar
El Pollito

Diamond
Posts: 20141
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:11 pm

Re: What the hell is going on

Postby El Pollito » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:23 pm

lol that is complete nonsense



Return to “Legal Employment?

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.