What the hell is going on

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How many CBs have you gotten so far?

0
18
8%
1
9
4%
2
15
7%
3
12
6%
4+
159
75%
 
Total votes: 213

Anonymous User
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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm still not entirely persuaded that we actually are seeing a decline in CBs. Everything is anecdotal, and there are plenty of counterpoints. In person, things will always skew towards the "everything's fine" end, while on TLS, it'll always skew towards "the sky is falling." This seems like every other year (and I've been around here for the past few), just with more hysteria.

I think the decline in the applicant pool argument is silly; we're talking about large law firms, and the work that most junior associates do doesn't require any particular brilliance. It's an arm's race for the best talent, sure, but at the end of the day firms have a pretty good idea of the class size they're looking for, and they're going to get that class size even if it means digging a little bit deeper.

Seems better to wait for the dust to clear before diagnosing, let alone attributing the change to some tangentially-related factor. Regardless, the script for the people struggling to get CBs has not changed.


I was top 25% at MVP.
20 screeners, 1 CB.
Went to career services and asked them to diagnose the problem.
Them: "Normally the problem is the interviewer is nervous or awkward."
I wasn't nervous. But do I come across as awkward?
Them: "No, but you do seem kind of laid back."
I am laid back. Is that a problem?
Them: "Not really."
So what's my problem?
Them: "I dunno. It's weird lol."

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there really a problem this year or is this thread full of a handful of median kids who aren't getting CB...which happens every year.


I'm at Y well above median. I could be a poor interviewer, but traditionally that hasn't mattered this much at the top of the class.

h above median, good interviewer by which i mean ocs told me im a good interviewer and ive interviewed for and gotten competitive jobs before law school, 1 cb bidding nyc

bk1

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby bk1 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:23 pm

It's still early August. Too early to draw meaningful conclusions.

Also, many of you may just actually suck at interviewing, or at least be worse than you think (which still matters even at the top of the class). I've seen people who are perfectly normal day to day but seem to bomb interviews (and vice versa).

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:31 pm

FWIW: My firm just groups people by GPA into "possible hire" and "not hiring" and then judges based on your interview. So the interview is really important. It likely doesn't make much if any of a difference if you're top 40% v. top 20% for example. If you have really high grades, then sure that helps you.

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LeDique

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby LeDique » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:35 pm

OCI just isn't like what it used to be before Harambe died

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there really a problem this year or is this thread full of a handful of median kids who aren't getting CB...which happens every year.


I'm at Y well above median. I could be a poor interviewer, but traditionally that hasn't mattered this much at the top of the class.

h above median, good interviewer by which i mean ocs told me im a good interviewer and ive interviewed for and gotten competitive jobs before law school, 1 cb bidding nyc


I found the people working in OCS are typically awkward/not great interpersonal skills, so I would take what they say with a grain of salt. Have you done mock interviews with family/friends?

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Will trade soul for 2L SA.


+1

Just applied for an Atlanta SA.. Never been there, never want to go there.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:49 pm

I'm at a v30 in a non-NYC major market. We (m&a) had a record year last year, while we were all busy, my office made offers to a big summer class and expected this year continue to be hot. Well, this year the industry in general cooled down a bit, so this morning our office head told us we are only looking for a smaller class to balance out the big class we just had. I imagine it might be the case for other firms too.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:07 pm

Just finished as an SA at a large NYC firm. My class had about 15 1L SAs, most of whom expressed an interest in returning. In addition, from what I was told, the firm had about 40 offers out by the end of July. My guess is that firms are now aggressively pursuing candidates pre-OCI, and those who receive offers before OCI likely come from the same pool of candidates. Those candidates may be accepting, may be hoarding their offers...who knows? But it seems like the advice for next year is that mass mailing early, outside of any formal interview programs, is the way to go.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just finished as an SA at a large NYC firm. My class had about 15 1L SAs, most of whom expressed an interest in returning. In addition, from what I was told, the firm had about 40 offers out by the end of July. My guess is that firms are now aggressively pursuing candidates pre-OCI, and those who receive offers before OCI likely come from the same pool of candidates. Those candidates may be accepting, may be hoarding their offers...who knows? But it seems like the advice for next year is that mass mailing early, outside of any formal interview programs, is the way to go.


This doesn't make any sense to me. You're supposed to mass mail firms that are coming to your OCI? I'm pretty sure CSO emphatically told me not to do this on multiple occasions

bk1

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby bk1 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:11 pm


bk1

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby bk1 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just finished as an SA at a large NYC firm. My class had about 15 1L SAs, most of whom expressed an interest in returning. In addition, from what I was told, the firm had about 40 offers out by the end of July. My guess is that firms are now aggressively pursuing candidates pre-OCI, and those who receive offers before OCI likely come from the same pool of candidates. Those candidates may be accepting, may be hoarding their offers...who knows? But it seems like the advice for next year is that mass mailing early, outside of any formal interview programs, is the way to go.


This doesn't make any sense to me. You're supposed to mass mail firms that are coming to your OCI? I'm pretty sure CSO emphatically told me not to do this on multiple occasions

Mass mail any firm that you don't have a screener with that you would work at. Yes, that includes firms that come to your OCI but you did not get a screener from.

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Rahviveh

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Rahviveh » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just finished as an SA at a large NYC firm. My class had about 15 1L SAs, most of whom expressed an interest in returning. In addition, from what I was told, the firm had about 40 offers out by the end of July. My guess is that firms are now aggressively pursuing candidates pre-OCI, and those who receive offers before OCI likely come from the same pool of candidates. Those candidates may be accepting, may be hoarding their offers...who knows? But it seems like the advice for next year is that mass mailing early, outside of any formal interview programs, is the way to go.


This doesn't make any sense to me. You're supposed to mass mail firms that are coming to your OCI? I'm pretty sure CSO emphatically told me not to do this on multiple occasions


Stop listening to OCS.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:16 pm

for what its worth, at my v100 this summer we had a huge class. not necessarily bc we wanted one, but bc way more many people accepted our offers than in years past (we had 16, we usually aim for 10-12). wouldn't be surprised if we'll balance that out with a smaller class this year. at the very least I imagine we would go at a slower pace and not hand out so many offers at once to not have a repeat of this summer.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just finished as an SA at a large NYC firm. My class had about 15 1L SAs, most of whom expressed an interest in returning. In addition, from what I was told, the firm had about 40 offers out by the end of July. My guess is that firms are now aggressively pursuing candidates pre-OCI, and those who receive offers before OCI likely come from the same pool of candidates. Those candidates may be accepting, may be hoarding their offers...who knows? But it seems like the advice for next year is that mass mailing early, outside of any formal interview programs, is the way to go.


This doesn't make any sense to me. You're supposed to mass mail firms that are coming to your OCI? I'm pretty sure CSO emphatically told me not to do this on multiple occasions


I know it seems like your CSO is supposed to be your sherpa through the tough process that is OCI, but in the end you have to be proactive and do what's best for you and your career.

Some firms won't bring you in before OCI, either because they only want to do their formal OCI program or they've been told by your school's CSO not to do pre-OCI interviews. Other firms won't give a f and will be happy to get a jump on great candidates. In the end, it can't hurt to send that feeler e-mail to a firm once you have an appreciable sense of your grades/class standing.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just finished as an SA at a large NYC firm. My class had about 15 1L SAs, most of whom expressed an interest in returning. In addition, from what I was told, the firm had about 40 offers out by the end of July. My guess is that firms are now aggressively pursuing candidates pre-OCI, and those who receive offers before OCI likely come from the same pool of candidates. Those candidates may be accepting, may be hoarding their offers...who knows? But it seems like the advice for next year is that mass mailing early, outside of any formal interview programs, is the way to go.


This doesn't make any sense to me. You're supposed to mass mail firms that are coming to your OCI? I'm pretty sure CSO emphatically told me not to do this on multiple occasions


I know it seems like your CSO is supposed to be your sherpa through the tough process that is OCI, but in the end you have to be proactive and do what's best for you and your career.

Some firms won't bring you in before OCI, either because they only want to do their formal OCI program or they've been told by your school's CSO not to do pre-OCI interviews. Other firms won't give a f and will be happy to get a jump on great candidates. In the end, it can't hurt to send that feeler e-mail to a firm once you have an appreciable sense of your grades/class standing.


This was the pre-conceived notion before this summer. In DC, there were literally 2 firms out of 60 or so I can directly speak to that were not doing pre-oci. Those were Wilmer and Gibson. Everyone else was at least doing callbacks by early July. Some in June. For next year, the knowledge needs to be apply June 1st to every firm and try to speak to any alumni partners in that firm to get someone on the inside to help move the resume along.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:27 pm

Now that I think about it, the only OCI firm that gave me a CB was the one OCI firm I had reached out to months earlier. Probably not a coincidence based on what I'm reading in this thread.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just finished as an SA at a large NYC firm. My class had about 15 1L SAs, most of whom expressed an interest in returning. In addition, from what I was told, the firm had about 40 offers out by the end of July. My guess is that firms are now aggressively pursuing candidates pre-OCI, and those who receive offers before OCI likely come from the same pool of candidates. Those candidates may be accepting, may be hoarding their offers...who knows? But it seems like the advice for next year is that mass mailing early, outside of any formal interview programs, is the way to go.


This doesn't make any sense to me. You're supposed to mass mail firms that are coming to your OCI? I'm pretty sure CSO emphatically told me not to do this on multiple occasions


Yes, MM firms that are coming to your OCI. I MM'd firms that I even bid on, and got a few CB's and a few offers. Who cares. CCN kids MM'd pre-OCI a ton and nearly every large firm comes to our OCI, so by definition those of us with pre-OCI offers MM'd firms coming to our OCI. I don't get why this seems like such a crazy concept to you/people lol. If you're serious about securing a SA in future years, you should be MM'ing pre-OCI to maximize your chances. This is regardless of your grades (I was below median), and regardless of if you bid on them or not.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Gibson and Wilmer


Even Gibson did pre-OCI screeners, just no CB.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Gibson and Wilmer


Even Gibson did pre-OCI screeners, just no CB.


Okay then I misspoke to that. I knew they didn't do cbs

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:39 pm

>that feel when "[Your name]" is in a different font than the rest of the ding email.

Image

stoopkid13

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby stoopkid13 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is there any evidence that $180K has led to smaller summer associate class size? From what I've heard at my interviews and callbacks, it is the opposite, many firms are growing/increasing the size of their summer class next year.


Could vary by firm but you can see how many summers each firm office expects to hire on the NALP directory. I think you are right; most of the firms I looked up are actually growing their summer classes.

brightthru2014

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby brightthru2014 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:06 pm

I'm a generic white male (was in a fraternity) at a lower t14 with a slightly below median GPA and got 4 call backs to V30-75 firms, which is more or less about what I would have expected before going through OCI.

Honestly I think the process is pretty fair, yall just aren't self aware enough to honestly evaluate yourselves.

bk1

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby bk1 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:13 pm

All this speculation about 180k when we don't even know if (or by how much) firms are going to lower bonuses to compensate for the increased salaries.

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Re: What the hell is going on

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:>that feel when "[Your name]" is in a different font than the rest of the ding email.

Image


I actually received a generic e-mail without my name/office location even filled out. It literally said, Dear [Applicant name], Unfortunately.... [office location].



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