Desmarais?

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Desmarais?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:48 pm

Their nalp form suggests 100% offers, but fewer than that return? Does this mean they give cold offers to 2-3/8 people? Sorry if I'm just bad at reading charts.

See: https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... rais%22%7D

Would it be safe to accept an offer at the firm? Does anybody have any general opinions regarding Desmarais vs NYC biglaw?

RaceJudicata

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby RaceJudicata » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:31 pm

1L SAs and SA's that dont come back to firm b/c of clerkships.

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Toni V

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Toni V » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:16 pm

Not sure why I am not familiar with Desmarais, especially since my school was part of their OCI program. Out of curiosity I checked your NAPA link and their website. Very impressive ― for starters. no billable hours’ criteria, outstanding pay and benefits, 4% matching 401k and their SA outcome looked good.

(FWIW: I noticed [from their website] this is a heavily dominated male firm.)

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby RaceJudicata » Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:25 pm

Toni V wrote:Not sure why I am not familiar with Desmarais, especially since my school was part of their OCI program. Out of curiosity I checked your NAPA link and their website. Very impressive ― for starters. no billable hours’ criteria, outstanding pay and benefits, 4% matching 401k and their SA outcome looked good.

(FWIW: I noticed [from their website] this is a heavily dominated male firm.)


Its an IP firm. There are a heck of a lot more male IP lawyers than female.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:56 pm

I Interviewed there. They have a casual dress code and they dont bill clients by the hour--so no living by 6 minute increments. They also pay 200k to first years and still give market bonuses.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I Interviewed there. They have a casual dress code and they dont bill clients by the hour--so no living by 6 minute increments. They also pay 200k to first years and still give market bonuses.


Yea its an amazing firm, but you basically want to have a PhD in biochemistry or a masters in electrical engineering and attend a T6 to have a strong shot

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:05 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I Interviewed there. They have a casual dress code and they dont bill clients by the hour--so no living by 6 minute increments. They also pay 200k to first years and still give market bonuses.


Yea its an amazing firm, but you basically want to have a PhD in biochemistry or a masters in electrical engineering and attend a T6 to have a strong shot


Would you say it is an amazing firm for one not committed to doing IP for the rest of their career? I am seriously considering them for 2L SA, but wondering whether safer career move at this point is to take an offer from more traditional BigLaw that still offers IP lit.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:35 pm

.

Abbie Doobie

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Abbie Doobie » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I Interviewed there. They have a casual dress code and they dont bill clients by the hour--so no living by 6 minute increments. They also pay 200k to first years and still give market bonuses.


Yea its an amazing firm, but you basically want to have a PhD in biochemistry or a masters in electrical engineering and attend a T6 to have a strong shot


Would you say it is an amazing firm for one not committed to doing IP for the rest of their career? I am seriously considering them for 2L SA, but wondering whether safer career move at this point is to take an offer from more traditional BigLaw that still offers IP lit.


you really need help determining whether an ip lit boutique would be a good choice for someone who is unsure whether they want to do ip law?

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:28 am

Wouldn't you still be committing to IP lit if you do IP lit in biglaw?

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:41 pm

If you do IP Lit at a big firm, you'll likely also be on other matters, and at worst, you can always move into other practice groups.

If you're not pretty committed to IP Lit, don't go to a IP Lit-only boutique. Particularly patent litigation, where there are a lot of patent law-specific skills.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:59 pm

Abbie Doobie wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I Interviewed there. They have a casual dress code and they dont bill clients by the hour--so no living by 6 minute increments. They also pay 200k to first years and still give market bonuses.


Yea its an amazing firm, but you basically want to have a PhD in biochemistry or a masters in electrical engineering and attend a T6 to have a strong shot


Would you say it is an amazing firm for one not committed to doing IP for the rest of their career? I am seriously considering them for 2L SA, but wondering whether safer career move at this point is to take an offer from more traditional BigLaw that still offers IP lit.


you really need help determining whether an ip lit boutique would be a good choice for someone who is unsure whether they want to do ip law?


I don't work at Desmarais (and never would have gotten an offer there), but my sense is that it would not be the best career move for someone who wants to be a general litigator first, IP second. That being said, someone with those credentials could probably lateral after two years to a generic biglaw firm and from there wish to transfer out of the IP group given sufficient reasons.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:If you do IP Lit at a big firm, you'll likely also be on other matters, and at worst, you can always move into other practice groups.

If you're not pretty committed to IP Lit, don't go to a IP Lit-only boutique. Particularly patent litigation, where there are a lot of patent law-specific skills.


I agree with not go to a IP lit boutique unless you want to do IP Lit. But I disagree with the first part.

First, many patent lit groups is separate from the gen lit group and you will not be utilized on other matters unless the IP lit group is not busy. There are quite a few reasons for this, but basically the IP groups would not want to give your availability up to the gen lit side. Cases run long, so if you get staffed on something IP lit group has lost some of your capacity.

Second, moving between practice groups is difficult except in a few firms where it is the norm. You get trained to do something. After a year or two if you transfer group they would have to train you again but pay you a higher salary. Not something firms like. In many firms if you transfer group (assuming you are allowed) you may have to take a hair cut (give up a class year).

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:I Interviewed there. They have a casual dress code and they dont bill clients by the hour--so no living by 6 minute increments. They also pay 200k to first years and still give market bonuses.


Are you sure associates don't bill time? Just because a firm charges on contingency does not mean time doesn't get kept -- attorneys' fee awards and fee disputes still need time records.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:10 am

Toni V wrote:Not sure why I am not familiar with Desmarais, especially since my school was part of their OCI program. Out of curiosity I checked your NAPA link and their website. Very impressive ― for starters. no billable hours’ criteria, outstanding pay and benefits, 4% matching 401k and their SA outcome looked good.

(FWIW: I noticed [from their website] this is a heavily dominated male firm.)


FYI: Would not be encouraged by lack of billable requirement. If a firm has no minimum, it means you won't need one.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:18 am

"billable requirement" is the most useless metric in biglaw. It conveys the sense that if you did that "requirement" you are okay. But in reality, you have to bill as much as everyone else or you are in trouble. The minimum is somewhere less than the average hours billed.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:23 am

It's not that there's no billable requirement. They don't bill hours period. Although I don't doubt you'd have to work just as hard as biglaw. Gotta earn that $200k somehow.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:29 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:It's not that there's no billable requirement. They don't bill hours period. Although I don't doubt you'd have to work just as hard as biglaw. Gotta earn that $200k somehow.


Are you sure you don't have to enter time? I am not talking about billing time to the client, I am talking about entering time for administrative purposes.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:30 am

r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I Interviewed there. They have a casual dress code and they dont bill clients by the hour--so no living by 6 minute increments. They also pay 200k to first years and still give market bonuses.


Are you sure associates don't bill time? Just because a firm charges on contingency does not mean time doesn't get kept -- attorneys' fee awards and fee disputes still need time records.


Yea they literally do not bill their time out. No tracking hours. Just get the job done.

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I Interviewed there. They have a casual dress code and they dont bill clients by the hour--so no living by 6 minute increments. They also pay 200k to first years and still give market bonuses.


Yea its an amazing firm, but you basically want to have a PhD in biochemistry or a masters in electrical engineering and attend a T6 to have a strong shot


I was lower T14 slightly above median with just a B.S. Shocked they actually invited me for a screener.(but i didnt follow up since i prefered regular big law

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:Yea they literally do not bill their time out. No tracking hours. Just get the job done.


So how does the firm submit requests for reasonable attorneys' fees awards? Or in the case where presentation is terminated by the client, how do they claim fees on quantum meruit basis?

I am not doubting you, I am just curious. I take contingency cases and I track my time for the above reasons.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:37 am

r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yea they literally do not bill their time out. No tracking hours. Just get the job done.


So how does the firm submit requests for reasonable attorneys' fees awards? Or in the case where presentation is terminated by the client, how do they claim fees on quantum meruit basis?

I am not doubting you, I am just curious. I take contingency cases and I track my time for the above reasons.


OP here, accepted an offer at Desmarais. I'm not sure that you absolutely do not have to track time, but most of their revenue is not contingency. It's mostly a pre-negotiated flat fee, at least for defense work. There is some mixed flat-fee/contingency work, so maybe for specific matters you have to log time. I do believe you don't have to log it the same way as billing hours, as in you don't have to describe what you're doing to the satisfaction of a client.

Taking Qs about decision for those in a similar boat.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yea they literally do not bill their time out. No tracking hours. Just get the job done.


So how does the firm submit requests for reasonable attorneys' fees awards? Or in the case where presentation is terminated by the client, how do they claim fees on quantum meruit basis?

I am not doubting you, I am just curious. I take contingency cases and I track my time for the above reasons.


OP here, accepted an offer at Desmarais. I'm not sure that you absolutely do not have to track time, but most of their revenue is not contingency. It's mostly a pre-negotiated flat fee, at least for defense work. There is some mixed flat-fee/contingency work, so maybe for specific matters you have to log time. I do believe you don't have to log it the same way as billing hours, as in you don't have to describe what you're doing to the satisfaction of a client.

Taking Qs about decision for those in a similar boat.


I also do flat fee work, and my agreement generally say when clients terminate presentation (they have the right to), the fee revert to an hourly basis, based on the prevailing rate. So that's why I kept hours.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yea they literally do not bill their time out. No tracking hours. Just get the job done.


So how does the firm submit requests for reasonable attorneys' fees awards? Or in the case where presentation is terminated by the client, how do they claim fees on quantum meruit basis?

I am not doubting you, I am just curious. I take contingency cases and I track my time for the above reasons.


OP here, accepted an offer at Desmarais. I'm not sure that you absolutely do not have to track time, but most of their revenue is not contingency. It's mostly a pre-negotiated flat fee, at least for defense work. There is some mixed flat-fee/contingency work, so maybe for specific matters you have to log time. I do believe you don't have to log it the same way as billing hours, as in you don't have to describe what you're doing to the satisfaction of a client.

Taking Qs about decision for those in a similar boat.


I also received an offer from them, and very inclined to accept. Do you know how many weeks the summer program is as it is not listed on the offer letter.

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I also received an offer from them, and very inclined to accept. Do you know how many weeks the summer program is as it is not listed on the offer letter.


Yeah their website says three months, and the letter said something like late May to early August, so I would assume 12 weeks, maybe 13. Letter also said they paid 3500/week last summer, which is what other 180k firms are paying, and they haven't decided on this upcoming summer's pay yet, but it will be "commensurate with" what other firms are paying. So maybe they're trying to decide if they want to pay 200k pro-rated?

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Re: Desmarais?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:58 pm

Are exit opportunities a concern given Desmarais' reputation regarding their involvement with NPEs?



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