Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

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jbagelboy

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:About time somebody separated the wheat from the chaff. More firms should adopt this model to maximize profits. If you need 40 people there should be at least 80 SA's. There is no shortage of law students. Guaranteeing someone a job based on one year of law school grades is buffoonish. Firms should see who performs best 2L and over the summer. Last thing the firm needs is a person burnt out from 1L. You need hungry people to bill 2,300 hours. Determine who is the hungriest. Business 101


In another industry, sure, but in law, No

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:22 am

Different start and end dates show having to do with offers show that Sidley has integrity in its hiring.

The fact that this thread was started by a non-Sidley person before any person has either received or not received an offer should be enough for it to be locked as massive trolling.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:26 am

Also, speculation that 180K raises have something to do with your speculation of no 100% offers is also complete garbage and shows you have something out for Sidley. Your anonymous trolling on a message board surely isn't going do much when people inside the firm know its financial health and the real situation.

Go find something better to do.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Also, speculation that 180K raises have something to do with your speculation of no 100% offers is also complete garbage and shows you have something out for Sidley. Your anonymous trolling on a message board surely isn't going do much when people inside the firm know its financial health and the real situation.

Go find something better to do.


Not OP, but I've also heard from multiple people at Sidley that the firm took on too many summers and will not be giving out offers to everyone. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:53 pm

Not to be a dick and not even from the Chi market, but if the office truly tends to hire lower 30s for SAs and has 64 this year, unless a significant amount of the SAs are 1Ls, I would be worried if I was a SA, simply because the market is not there to double the SA class size in general. I would be interested in seeing what will happen soon, but again I really am not trying to be a dick here. Even if OP is not a summer there but if the numbers are 64 v. 30s, OP's speculation has a solid reason. I agree that we shouldn't troll on firms, but there's fine difference between trolling and calling for caution.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:07 pm

Sure, the 64 thing is concerning, but prior to the recession Sidley was hiring well over 64 summers and finding a place for them. I just can't imagine a firm like sidley tanking it's reputation in a year when the economy has actually been doing pretty well. Their best asset in competing against Kirkland for talent is that they're the nicer and more conservative/reasonable option.

And even if sidley did make offers to everyone last year before the program ended, it was an exceptional year. Every other year since the recession the firm has given 100% offers and waited to tell the summer class until several days after the program.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby nemrac11 » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:08 pm

jdmonkey wrote:About time somebody separated the wheat from the chaff. More firms should adopt this model to maximize profits. If you need 40 people there should be at least 80 SA's. There is no shortage of law students. Guaranteeing someone a job based on one year of law school grades is buffoonish. Firms should see who performs best 2L and over the summer. Last thing the firm needs is a person burnt out from 1L. You need hungry people to bill 2,300 hours. Determine who is the hungriest. Business 101


If Sidley or any other firm did this, they would get almost no top students the following year. Winston & Strawn is still recovering from no offering 1/3 of their class 3-4 years ago. Why would a student from U Chicago, Northwestern, or any other T14 go to Sidley if they no offer 1/2 their SA class. Given how difficult it is to get into big law as a 3L with a no offer from your 2L SA firm or mass mailing as a 3L, no one with multiple offers would risk it.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:15 pm

Please all remember that as of 8/7 the entire Sidley Chicago summer class is awaiting offers and that nobody has either been offered or no-offered to this point.

OP is not at Sidley, was not at Sidley, and is going off pure speculation. This thread is trolling to the largest extent.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:16 pm

double post

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Please all remember that as of 8/7 the entire Sidley Chicago summer class is awaiting offers and that nobody has either been offered or no-offered to this point.

OP is not at Sidley, was not at Sidley, and is going off pure speculation. This thread is trolling to the largest extent.


I guess it's not productive to debate at this point. So I'll restate my position one more time before I stop responding. I understand that this is a stressful time. Most likely you're gonna be fine either way so long as you don't have social issues. I really hope the best for everyone. I was recently in you same position and it's definitely not fun.

I heard from a fairly reputable source inside sidley. I work at another good Chicago firm - it's not a stretch to think I have friends in Sidley. I posted because I felt like it rose above the level of gossip. So that's not pure speculation. Other people have confirmed hearing the same things.

I'm speculating about the reasons for not offering the whole class, not about the fact that Sidley isn't offering the entire class. I think it's a combination of royally fucking up their yield and then having to raise salaries in the middle of the summer.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Please all remember that as of 8/7 the entire Sidley Chicago summer class is awaiting offers and that nobody has either been offered or no-offered to this point.

OP is not at Sidley, was not at Sidley, and is going off pure speculation. This thread is trolling to the largest extent.


I guess it's not productive to debate at this point. So I'll restate my position one more time before I stop responding. I understand that this is a stressful time. Most likely you're gonna be fine either way so long as you don't have social issues. I really hope the best for everyone. I was recently in you same position and it's definitely not fun.

I heard from a fairly reputable source inside sidley. I work at another good Chicago firm - it's not a stretch to think I have friends in Sidley. I posted because I felt like it rose above the level of gossip. So that's not pure speculation. Other people have confirmed hearing the same things.

I'm speculating about the reasons for not offering the whole class, not about the fact that Sidley isn't offering the entire class. I think it's a combination of royally fucking up their yield and then having to raise salaries in the middle of the summer.


So your first instinct is to post an anon thread saying "lol" at the prospect of a number of SAs getting potentially no-offered? And then you walk it back and say it's "not productive to debate" right after you open the discussion?

OP, you're an asshole. Stop softening your tone now because people are calling you on it.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Please all remember that as of 8/7 the entire Sidley Chicago summer class is awaiting offers and that nobody has either been offered or no-offered to this point.

OP is not at Sidley, was not at Sidley, and is going off pure speculation. This thread is trolling to the largest extent.


I guess it's not productive to debate at this point. So I'll restate my position one more time before I stop responding. I understand that this is a stressful time. Most likely you're gonna be fine either way so long as you don't have social issues. I really hope the best for everyone. I was recently in you same position and it's definitely not fun.

I heard from a fairly reputable source inside sidley. I work at another good Chicago firm - it's not a stretch to think I have friends in Sidley. I posted because I felt like it rose above the level of gossip. So that's not pure speculation. Other people have confirmed hearing the same things.

I'm speculating about the reasons for not offering the whole class, not about the fact that Sidley isn't offering the entire class. I think it's a combination of royally fucking up their yield and then having to raise salaries in the middle of the summer.


So your first instinct is to post an anon thread saying "lol" at the prospect of a number of SAs getting potentially no-offered? And then you walk it back and say it's "not productive to debate" right after you open the discussion?

OP, you're an asshole. Stop softening your tone now because people are calling you on it.



Also pretty telling that OP is "at another good Chicago firm" <-- clearly trying to boost that firm's recruiting by spreading rumors. Feel free to discuss whether it is "a combination of royally fucking up their yield and then having to raise salaries in the middle of the summer" all you want should Sidley no offer a bunch of summers. But until then you're just spreading rumors with the sole purpose of harming a rival firm.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:02 pm

That wasn't the best way to start the thread, but it was directed to the firm for being stupid. Not at the summers.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:12 pm

Yet not even an ounce of it is true at this point.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:28 pm

This anonymous Friday-at-9:30pm-TLS-trolling OP entirely confirms why I'm glad I chose Sidley.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby jdmonkey » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:37 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:About time somebody separated the wheat from the chaff. More firms should adopt this model to maximize profits. If you need 40 people there should be at least 80 SA's. There is no shortage of law students. Guaranteeing someone a job based on one year of law school grades is buffoonish. Firms should see who performs best 2L and over the summer. Last thing the firm needs is a person burnt out from 1L. You need hungry people to bill 2,300 hours. Determine who is the hungriest. Business 101


In another industry, sure, but in law, No


Yeah. Not to be insensitive to anyone getting no-offered, but if I was a parter and had skin in the game I would feel compelled to at least experiment with this model. As I would have so much more data about the candidate before committing to pay them 180k/year. But apparently as another user pointed out, it has been tried before and failed. I would just be irritated as a partner that people felt entitled to a job, because if someone doesn't have fear that they can lose their job based on my observations they aren't as productive.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:54 pm

Sidley attracts top students, including Wachtell-qualified students who want to work in Chicago. I personally know a number of the UChicago SAs who had clerkships lined up early, before OCI. Sometimes two clerkships. I imagine the same is true for SAs from other schools.

Clerkship hiring is being pushed earlier and earlier. That means firms can hire SAs without committing to taking on every SA immediately after graduation. I would be shocked if Sidley did not take that into account when determining their class size for this summer.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby landshoes » Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:01 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:About time somebody separated the wheat from the chaff. More firms should adopt this model to maximize profits. If you need 40 people there should be at least 80 SA's. There is no shortage of law students. Guaranteeing someone a job based on one year of law school grades is buffoonish. Firms should see who performs best 2L and over the summer. Last thing the firm needs is a person burnt out from 1L. You need hungry people to bill 2,300 hours. Determine who is the hungriest. Business 101


In another industry, sure, but in law, No


The expense of having 40 people for a summer is about the same as having 7 people for an entire year, and that's just salaries (and not the cost of valuable billing hours that would be spent supervising useless SAs, HR onboarding for 40 people, etc.)

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sidley attracts top students, including Wachtell-qualified students who want to work in Chicago. I personally know a number of the UChicago SAs who had clerkships lined up early, before OCI. Sometimes two clerkships. I imagine the same is true for SAs from other schools.

Clerkship hiring is being pushed earlier and earlier. That means firms can hire SAs without committing to taking on every SA immediately after graduation. I would be shocked if Sidley did not take that into account when determining their class size for this summer.

Now Sidley = Wachtell? Jesus.

OP is a dick, this sounds like gossip, and the "model" suggested above by that other dick (only hire half the summers) is dumb... but with all that said, it's pretty reasonable to speculate that 30--->64 involves some yield miscalculation. In conjunction with the increased salary (which has consequences for lots of people for lots of years, by the way), I wouldn't be surprised if a few summers were deemed to be a "bad fit" and stealthily cold offered. They'd almost certainly still be considered a 100% offer firm, as these things can be done quietly.

That said, there's no evidence for any of this. It's all speculation. TLS gonna TLS...

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:46 pm

jdmonkey wrote:About time somebody separated the wheat from the chaff. More firms should adopt this model to maximize profits. If you need 40 people there should be at least 80 SA's. There is no shortage of law students. Guaranteeing someone a job based on one year of law school grades is buffoonish. Firms should see who performs best 2L and over the summer. Last thing the firm needs is a person burnt out from 1L. You need hungry people to bill 2,300 hours. Determine who is the hungriest. Business 101

If you want to brag about being as good as Kirkland in Chicago you have to give 100 % offers all the time or else students are going to start choosing Greenberg Traurig over your firm. Gotta be risk averse as a rising 2L.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This anonymous Friday-at-9:30pm-TLS-trolling OP entirely confirms why I'm glad I chose Sidley.


OP may be insensitive, but a lot of these attacks seem unjustified. I guess we wait to find out if these claims have any merit, but firms firms that don't announce 100% offers on the last day of the summer program are TTT.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby runinthefront » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:41 pm

This is such a bad thread.
Last edited by runinthefront on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This anonymous Friday-at-9:30pm-TLS-trolling OP entirely confirms why I'm glad I chose Sidley.


Bro don't jinx yourself. You gotta see if they chose you.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby valen » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:10 pm

can any Sidley SAs chime in on whether there have been any updates on this?

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Re: Sidley Chicago hires 64 SAs - doesn't offer 100%

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:13 pm

sidley is literally my #1 choice and has been all throughout law school but i would be seriously disappointed if they pulled a Latham right now.



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