Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

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Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:15 pm

While completing a 1L SA gig, I realized the quality of my writing is lacking. I got a lot of good reviews but did receive some bad ones on a few key projects. There is definitely a chance that I might not receive an offer. I'm taking steps to correct the writing issues by taking as many written work product heavy classes as I can 2L year, but for the moment I'm trying to figure out how to navigate OCI with a potential no offer and some bad reviews on my plate. Most of my interviews will occur before I hear back about the offer.

Does anyone have any advice on how to spin a no-offer (if I receive one) or how to spin bad reviews (if I haven't heard back about an offer by then)? Thank you for any advice you can give! I am not necessarily stellar candidate otherwise, but I don't have other glaring issues. Above median at MVPD with work experience and a strong undergraduate program. Mainly applying to NY and DC firms.

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:While completing a 1L SA gig, I realized the quality of my writing is lacking. I got a lot of good reviews but did receive some bad ones on a few key projects. There is definitely a chance that I might not receive an offer. I'm taking steps to correct the writing issues by taking as many written work product heavy classes as I can 2L year, but for the moment I'm trying to figure out how to navigate OCI with a potential no offer and some bad reviews on my plate. Most of my interviews will occur before I hear back about the offer.

Does anyone have any advice on how to spin a no-offer (if I receive one) or how to spin bad reviews (if I haven't heard back about an offer by then)? Thank you for any advice you can give! I am not necessarily stellar candidate otherwise, but I don't have other glaring issues. Above median at MVPD with work experience and a strong undergraduate program. Mainly applying to NY and DC firms.


Why would you ever tell an interviewer that you got bad reviews?

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axel.foley

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby axel.foley » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:21 pm

Ignorant question: Do firms really ask 1L SAs interviewing with them at OCI whether or not they received an offer from their 1L firm? Of the 1L SAs I know, almost all are going through the OCI process, even if they have offers, and I would be surprised if each firm they interview with asks this.

SFSpartan

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby SFSpartan » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:22 pm

Talk about how much you learned over the summer and come up with a plausible reason for switching firms (i.e. think about why each firm you are interviewing with is different than your current firm). There's no need to spin here, as not all places give 1L SA offers, and you probably won't be asked about it.

Also, as the above poster said, don't tell anyone you got bad reviews.

bwh8813

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby bwh8813 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:While completing a 1L SA gig, I realized the quality of my writing is lacking. I got a lot of good reviews but did receive some bad ones on a few key projects. There is definitely a chance that I might not receive an offer. I'm taking steps to correct the writing issues by taking as many written work product heavy classes as I can 2L year, but for the moment I'm trying to figure out how to navigate OCI with a potential no offer and some bad reviews on my plate. Most of my interviews will occur before I hear back about the offer.

Does anyone have any advice on how to spin a no-offer (if I receive one) or how to spin bad reviews (if I haven't heard back about an offer by then)? Thank you for any advice you can give! I am not necessarily stellar candidate otherwise, but I don't have other glaring issues. Above median at MVPD with work experience and a strong undergraduate program. Mainly applying to NY and DC firms.


1 - You're not "spinning" a no-offer if you haven't heard yet. If they even ask if you got a 1L offer - "I have not heard about an offer to return yet, but although I enjoyed my summer with X firm and got some good experience, I am hoping to work at a different firm next summer and am particularly interested in your firm bc..."

2 - Don't tell interviewers you got bad reviews and there will be no need to spin them.

C - Have more confidence in yourself (at least for the interviews).

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:30 pm

Ignorant question: Do firms really ask 1L SAs interviewing with them at OCI whether or not they received an offer from their 1L firm? Of the 1L SAs I know, almost all are going through the OCI process, even if they have offers, and I would be surprised if each firm they interview with asks this.


OP here. Though I am basically a 0L wrt your question, I did poke around on TLS about that question specifically. Posters have typically said that very few firms explicitly ask if a 1L SA received an offer. However, some posters have indicated every firm they interviewed with asked. It definitely seems like a something that might happen a few times out of 20.

Thanks for the advice about the other questions. I was not planning on broadcasting any negative reviews to firms but my career services office made it seem like firms would ask how my reviews went. Based on the responses here, that seems unlikely which is great to hear.

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:38 pm

I had a 1L SA and interviewed with about 30 firms in OCI afterward. I'd guess somewhere around 10 asked if I had received an offer. For some if not most of these firms, it seemed like a standard required OCI question during the first few minutes of formalities where they are starting to fill out an evaluation sheet for me. So it varies.

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby ballouttacontrol » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Ignorant question: Do firms really ask 1L SAs interviewing with them at OCI whether or not they received an offer from their 1L firm? Of the 1L SAs I know, almost all are going through the OCI process, even if they have offers, and I would be surprised if each firm they interview with asks this.


OP here. Though I am basically a 0L wrt your question, I did poke around on TLS about that question specifically. Posters have typically said that very few firms explicitly ask if a 1L SA received an offer. However, some posters have indicated every firm they interviewed with asked. It definitely seems like a something that might happen a few times out of 20.

Thanks for the advice about the other questions. I was not planning on broadcasting any negative reviews to firms but my career services office made it seem like firms would ask how my reviews went. Based on the responses here, that seems unlikely which is great to hear.


Former 1L SA here, it will be asked in the majority of your interviews, assuming your job title was Summer Associate. If not asked the screener, there's no way you're making it through the callbsck gauntlet as well as HR/recruiting without answering that question

If I were you I would bust your ass to get an offer before offers at your firm come out, though many firms probably will hold off on giving you an offer until they hear whether you got one at your previous firm.

Once you get the no offer, all the other no offer advice on this forum will apply. You're gonna have a rough time, be very very practiced on exactly how you will explain it, which depends on a myriad of variables. Get a positive reference ASAP from the firm that no offered you.
Last edited by ballouttacontrol on Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

bwh8813

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby bwh8813 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:

Thanks for the advice about the other questions. I was not planning on broadcasting any negative reviews to firms but my career services office made it seem like firms would ask how my reviews went. Based on the responses here, that seems unlikely which is great to hear.


Did you receive actual reviews or are you just referring to feedback on work? Either way, you said you received some good ones. Focus on those and then note that you received some constructive criticism as well which you appreciate because you know what you need to work on, and have plans to do so through classes, journal, whatever.

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

I had a 1LSA for a half-summer at a southern market firm that never offers everyone. I was one of the no-offered people.

I did 30 screeners or so, took like 8-10 cbs, I think. I was asked about it a total of two times. Once in a screener with someone from Latham's DC office, and once after a callback with Skadden NYC. I did interviews with both major market firms along with some in the south and Texas, who you'd think would ask. But none of them did. Dunno if it was because my credentials were so good that they assumed I got an offer or just didn't care.

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:45 pm

Just to add another data point (I'm still a 1L SA so I won't actually experience this for another few weeks), the firm I'm currently at sent around their interview evaluation forms and there is a box to check that asks if the candidate has an outstanding offer from their 1L firm.

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pancakes3

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby pancakes3 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:56 pm

DONT take multiple "written-work heavy" classes as possible. It's not going to help. You'll gain a better appreciation for legal writing naturally. Chill.

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:24 pm

pancakes3 wrote:DONT take multiple "written-work heavy" classes as possible. It's not going to help. You'll gain a better appreciation for legal writing naturally. Chill.

Along these lines, if the "written work heavy" courses are seminars with long papers, they're not really going to train you in writing for practice - you'll be writing like law review articles. I do actually think advanced research/writing classes or practice-oriented stuff like trial ad can be helpful, but taking multiple in the same semester can be a heavy workload.

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:21 pm

Not OP.

What if you have every reason to believe you will get an offer but your firm has stated they will not give offers (or non-offers) until mid/late August? Do firms think this is a cover-up for being no-offered?

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:46 pm

Friend got no offered at his 1L SA, and is now at a V10. Most people won't ask. Besides, you must look good on paper if you got a 1L spot in the first place, so I'm sure someone will hire you.

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Re: Potential 1L SA No-Offer, how to recover

Postby arklaw13 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP.

What if you have every reason to believe you will get an offer but your firm has stated they will not give offers (or non-offers) until mid/late August? Do firms think this is a cover-up for being no-offered?


Generally, firms will assume you are telling the truth unless you give them a reason not to. Probably they will just go ahead and give you an offer. Some may wait until you hear about your 1L offer, but I doubt many will do that.



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