Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

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Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:43 pm

Hi,

I'm a rising 2L at a lower T14 that was just accepted into Yale as a transfer student. I didn't really expect to get in and mostly sent the app for kicks. I plan on working for a firm after graduation, and really have no interest in clerking as i'm only interested in corporate work. I'm waiting to see if I will be getting any financial aid from Yale, but I expect that it will be minimal, if any. My current scholarship is also really small, but due to some parental help/pre-law school savings/the 20k that is sitting in my bank account from my 1L SA my debt load won't be entirely outrageous, but it is still far from ideal.

Basically, i'm wondering if there is any long term advantage to having a degree from Yale compared to one a Duke or Michigan. I have asked a few folks at my SA firm but the responses have been conflicting. 5 years down the road, will having that sweet Yale name brand on my resume open doors that wouldn't be available with a degree from a lesser T14? Or will it make minimal difference later in my career?

sflyr2016

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby sflyr2016 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:01 pm

Does graduating from the best law school have long-term benefits/advantages over graduating from other schools in a prestige-obsessed profession? Yes. The only reasons to not go are that you would be giving up a substantial scholarship or personal considerations (marriage, etc.). If neither are really at play, then go!

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby barkschool » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:28 pm

Increases shot at potus position if interested.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby BNA » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:13 pm

If you're not first, you're last.

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sayan

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby sayan » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:59 pm

You'll meet more interesting people, that's for sure. And they might change the way you think in ways you never thought possible.

I don't know anything about you, but my hunch is that down the road you will regret not going. Why risk feeling that regret?

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:01 pm

sayan wrote:Why risk feeling that regret?


$$$$$

Me and a close friend were in a nearly identical situation (lower T-14 with HYS transfer shot), I stayed while she took the jump, and now one year later I am very happy and she is kind of regretful. Her employment prospects are identical to what they already were, the difference is that she's paying a lot more.

If you want academia or something similarly prestigious then go for it; otherwise, think about what you're chasing

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:16 pm

sayan wrote:You'll meet more interesting people, that's for sure. And they might change the way you think in ways you never thought possible.

I don't know anything about you, but my hunch is that down the road you will regret not going. Why risk feeling that regret?


Eh. I'm really not a particularly intellectual person, as ridiculous as that might sound. The idea of debating philosophy until the wee hours of the morning isn't all that appealing to me. Plus, I really like the people i've met at my current school. I also really like my current location. Personally, i'd like to stay put. However, i'm not married or anything, so a move is possible, there would just have to be some sort of tangible benefit to it for it to be worth my while. And several attorneys i've talked to have told me pretty bluntly that five years down the road Yale isn't going to give me a huge advantage over my current school + Law Review on a resume. What is going to matter is the quality of work i've done.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby keosu11 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:32 pm

Have you tried approaching your school about giving you more scholarship money? You said you initially received small scholarship, but things have changed. They have a bigger incentive in trying to keep you at their school now. I would speak with someone explaining that from a financial perspective the cost will be similar, if they could give you more money then you'd be willing to stay.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:28 pm

BNA wrote:If you're not first, you're last.


Brilliant. Really, I LOL'd.

I am currently in a situation between deciding between leaving the top of my class at a T3 to attend CLS (not the same situation, but similar), and I share your sentiments about not wanting to leave, especially since I too just want BigLaw. I bet you're telling yourself, how the hell do I turn down Y. But I think for the both of us, and more so for you, are we the type of people who want to play into the prestige game? If so, go. If not, stay put. Either way, you'll be making a good choice. Best of luck to you, I hope you're happy no matter what you do.

Edit: Accidental anon.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:44 pm

several coworkers at my summer firm go to Y and literally despise the school and their classmates. I work with many more folks from H, all of whom know several people at Y, and the secondhand reports from their Y friends are consistently negative about the experience, so take all that into account I guess. i assume there's a lot of sniffing one's own farts at a school like Y?

good luck, OP. you sound smart enough to make the right choice, whatever it is

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby haus » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:17 pm

I was not aware that the YMCA had degree programs.

Ah, Yale...yeah that could be good.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:58 pm

Yeah $$ should be your primary consideration. What's the increased CoA or increased debt if you go to Yale?

Reasons to go to Yale:

It's Yale

Reasons not to go to Yale:

$$$ (?)
friends
Law Review (?)
professor connections
significant other (?)
city that isn't New Haven (?)


Having the sweet Yale brand will always be better than any other brand, but nobody can help you unless they know what you're weighing that sweet Yale brand against. Is it 25k? Then go to Yale. Is it 100k (if your T14 bumps you to a full scholarship)? Do you have to live apart from your fiance/e for two years? Do you love the city you're in?

Coif/summa/Law Review at a T14 are nice signals too.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:39 am

The one thing I'd add to what others have posted is that Yale really opens a ton of doors for the rest of your career. Many of those doors will be open to you already if you manage to graduate at the tipity top of your class from a t14 with EIC of LR, etc. But just because you're at the top now doesn't necessarily mean you will be when you graduate. Moreover, what it boils down to is whether the additional doors that would be open to you as a result of going to YLS are worthwhile. But you probably don't really know what precisely it is that you want out of your legal career and won't until you're actually practicing law. I certainly thought I knew what I wanted but even now with 5 years of experience actually practicing law, I find that changes (e.g. maybe you'll discover you want to practice in X super-niche practice area and to get into X, you need Y experience, but getting Y is very difficult without YLS).

In your situation, I'd go to Yale because it's not like you're giving up much of a scholarship to do so (where your financial situation won't be all that different by attending YLS rather than staying put). I'm not sure what the situation is with Yale LR for transfers now, but when I went to law school, I remember they were pretty explicit that you got a couple chances to get onto LR as a transfer student, so I doubt getting LR at your current school is a reason to stay.

Often times people say you lose your relationships with your 1L profs by transferring and that makes clerking more difficult, but I don't think that's really true. First, your 1L law profs who you developed good relationships with will still be willing to write you letters of recommendation (despite it coming from a different school--worth considering if you booked LRW). Second, you develop relationships with profs at your new school during your 2nd year and can use those profs for letters of recommendation too.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:49 am

I'm assuming you're top of your class at your current school.(top 1-2%) If so, what benefits does Yale offer over what you have? Then you have to weigh that against the additional debt you're taking on and the relationships you will lose.

I can understand why you might choose Yale. It's Yale, after all. But I'm not sure that there's a ton of upside. Especially since you aren't interested in clerking and want to do corporate work.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby WestOfTheRest » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:30 am

The only answer here is you should go (barring some crazy circumstances).

If you want to be a lawyer your whole career, Yale will open more doors and have a stronger alumni network higher up. If you want to get out of law, having Yale on your resume might get your foot in the door at many places other schools won't.

I can't see any reason to stay where you are at, even if the financial situation is a bit better.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:48 am

sayan wrote:You'll meet more interesting people, that's for sure. And they might change the way you think in ways you never thought possible.

I don't know anything about you, but my hunch is that down the road you will regret not going. Why risk feeling that regret?


what makes you think people at yale law are necessarily more interesting than another top law school. their LSAT scores and undergraduate credentials? this is where TLS's elitism puts its foot in its mouth.

for what it's worth, depending on the money, I think it can be--and probably is--worth it to transfer. but not because people at yale are objectively "better."

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby WestOfTheRest » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:58 am

jbagelboy wrote:
sayan wrote:You'll meet more interesting people, that's for sure. And they might change the way you think in ways you never thought possible.

I don't know anything about you, but my hunch is that down the road you will regret not going. Why risk feeling that regret?


what makes you think people at yale law are necessarily more interesting than another top law school. their LSAT scores and undergraduate credentials? this is where TLS's elitism puts its foot in its mouth.

for what it's worth, depending on the money, I think it can be--and probably is--worth it to transfer. but not because people at yale are objectively "better."

People at Yale are definitely "different", but I wouldn't necessarily say more interesting.

Also, as an anecdote for OP, I had a friend take cash at a T6 over Yale (they also went to undergrad at the T6). The stupidity of that decision became abundantly clear when they graduated without a job. I doubt that would have been the case at Yale.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:01 am

WestOfTheRest wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
sayan wrote:You'll meet more interesting people, that's for sure. And they might change the way you think in ways you never thought possible.

I don't know anything about you, but my hunch is that down the road you will regret not going. Why risk feeling that regret?


what makes you think people at yale law are necessarily more interesting than another top law school. their LSAT scores and undergraduate credentials? this is where TLS's elitism puts its foot in its mouth.

for what it's worth, depending on the money, I think it can be--and probably is--worth it to transfer. but not because people at yale are objectively "better."

People at Yale are definitely "different", but I wouldn't necessarily say more interesting.

Also, as an anecdote for OP, I had a friend take cash at a T6 over Yale (they also went to undergrad at the T6). The stupidity of that decision became abundantly clear when they graduated without a job. I doubt that would have been the case at Yale.


The OP is near the top of his class at a t14 school. If he or she graduates without a job, going to Yale wouldn't have saved him or her.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:
sayan wrote:Why risk feeling that regret?


$$$$$

Me and a close friend were in a nearly identical situation (lower T-14 with HYS transfer shot), I stayed while she took the jump, and now one year later I am very happy and she is kind of regretful. Her employment prospects are identical to what they already were, the difference is that she's paying a lot more.

If you want academia or something similarly prestigious then go for it; otherwise, think about what you're chasing


The people I know who transferred to YLS from another T14 are split on regretting or not regretting their decision--the ones that are going to large law firms to do corporate work tend to regret it, whereas the ones who have really milked the community for publications, clerkship opportunities, and other benefits feel justified in taking on the added costs and losing the network at their previous school. I think transferring is usually the right call here but there are situations where its not.

One nice thing about YLS relative to HLS is that you can join YLJ later on, and not just through the insanely competitive write-on.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:03 am

WestOfTheRest wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
sayan wrote:You'll meet more interesting people, that's for sure. And they might change the way you think in ways you never thought possible.

I don't know anything about you, but my hunch is that down the road you will regret not going. Why risk feeling that regret?


what makes you think people at yale law are necessarily more interesting than another top law school. their LSAT scores and undergraduate credentials? this is where TLS's elitism puts its foot in its mouth.

for what it's worth, depending on the money, I think it can be--and probably is--worth it to transfer. but not because people at yale are objectively "better."

People at Yale are definitely "different", but I wouldn't necessarily say more interesting.

Also, as an anecdote for OP, I had a friend take cash at a T6 over Yale (they also went to undergrad at the T6). The stupidity of that decision became abundantly clear when they graduated without a job. I doubt that would have been the case at Yale.


this last part is really silly (and logically flawed), because you aren't comparing apples to apples. Yes there's a small chance that as a 1L you may land at the bottom of your class at NYU and strike out. But someone near the top of their class at any T6--which you would need to be making the transfer decision--will have dozens of offers and lots of interest from judges.

also--compare employment outcomes at e.g. Chicago and Columbia and YLS. the people that strike out at one top school are usually the same people that would strike out at another--and its not because of grades or school.

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:08 am

XxSpyKEx wrote:The one thing I'd add to what others have posted is that Yale really opens a ton of doors for the rest of your career. Many of those doors will be open to you already if you manage to graduate at the tipity top of your class from a t14 with EIC of LR, etc. But just because you're at the top now doesn't necessarily mean you will be when you graduate. Moreover, what it boils down to is whether the additional doors that would be open to you as a result of going to YLS are worthwhile. But you probably don't really know what precisely it is that you want out of your legal career and won't until you're actually practicing law. I certainly thought I knew what I wanted but even now with 5 years of experience actually practicing law, I find that changes (e.g. maybe you'll discover you want to practice in X super-niche practice area and to get into X, you need Y experience, but getting Y is very difficult without YLS).

In your situation, I'd go to Yale because it's not like you're giving up much of a scholarship to do so (where your financial situation won't be all that different by attending YLS rather than staying put). I'm not sure what the situation is with Yale LR for transfers now, but when I went to law school, I remember they were pretty explicit that you got a couple chances to get onto LR as a transfer student, so I doubt getting LR at your current school is a reason to stay.

Often times people say you lose your relationships with your 1L profs by transferring and that makes clerking more difficult, but I don't think that's really true. First, your 1L law profs who you developed good relationships with will still be willing to write you letters of recommendation (despite it coming from a different school--worth considering if you booked LRW). Second, you develop relationships with profs at your new school during your 2nd year and can use those profs for letters of recommendation too.


+1

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby nothingtosee » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:14 am

What is an example of a door open for a 5+ year corporate lawyer from YLS that's not open to a 5+ year corporate lawyer who's top 2% from Duke?

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby Nebby » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:28 am

jbagelboy wrote:
sayan wrote:You'll meet more interesting people, that's for sure. And they might change the way you think in ways you never thought possible.

I don't know anything about you, but my hunch is that down the road you will regret not going. Why risk feeling that regret?


what makes you think people at yale law are necessarily more interesting than another top law school. their LSAT scores and undergraduate credentials? this is where TLS's elitism puts its foot in its mouth.

for what it's worth, depending on the money, I think it can be--and probably is--worth it to transfer. but not because people at yale are objectively "better."

By interesting he probably meant insufferable

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby Nebby » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:30 am

nothingtosee wrote:What is an example of a door open for a 5+ year corporate lawyer from YLS that's not open to a 5+ year corporate lawyer who's top 2% from Duke?

The Yalie would probably have a prius and the Duke grad a 5-series

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Re: Long term advantage to a degree from Y?

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:05 am

OP is interested in doing corporate work at a big firm and not clerking. If the cost difference is pretty negligible, Yale would probably be worth it. But if Biglaw corporate work is the main goal, and OP is already at the top of his/her class at a T14, it doesn't seem like the areas in which Yale is the strongest (clerking / academia) are worth the transfer to the OP if Yale costs significantly more.



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