massmailing partners does not work

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Re: massmailing partners don't work

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just some alternative anecdata, IIRC I got a few screeners and at least one direct-to-CB by MMing partners. I believe I first applied to recruiting contacts who referred me to the website, after which at some point, assuming all was lost, I emailed the relevant practice group head, who forwarded to the same recruiters with directions to interview me. This was in the context of applying from a school from another region, to offices with large class sizes, where contact could never have otherwise occurred. In such situations, I think it's OK to be a bit more bold, granted you are per se being really annoying.

In other words, within reason, and after getting effective dings going through the formal channels, I think this can be worth your time.


Thanks for sharing your experience. Did you know or meet those partners to whom you sent your application? Or was it a cold-email?

When mass mailing, do you attach a separate cover letter in a pdf form or state it in your email body?

All cold. I think doing both wrt cover letter is the bestimate option.


Thanks.

did you cold email partners with whom you did not go to the same undergrad/law school? Would cold emailing to the practice group head whom I have zero ties with be considered poor judgment?

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Re: massmailing partners don't work

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:for what it's worth i mm'd multiple partners in 1 department. one of them responded saying s/he will forward my email to the head partner in that department then casually dropped "i think u already sent him an email as well." im just like... wtf how do u even know this? Do they all share incoming emails?


im curious about this. Do partners/associates share incoming emails? How do they know the other got a particular email?

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just some alternative anecdata, IIRC I got a few screeners and at least one direct-to-CB by MMing partners. I believe I first applied to recruiting contacts who referred me to the website, after which at some point, assuming all was lost, I emailed the relevant practice group head, who forwarded to the same recruiters with directions to interview me. This was in the context of applying from a school from another region, to offices with large class sizes, where contact could never have otherwise occurred. In such situations, I think it's OK to be a bit more bold, granted you are per se being really annoying.

In other words, within reason, and after getting effective dings going through the formal channels, I think this can be worth your time.


Thanks for sharing your experience. Did you know or meet those partners to whom you sent your application? Or was it a cold-email?

When mass mailing, do you attach a separate cover letter in a pdf form or state it in your email body?

All cold. I think doing both wrt cover letter is the bestimate option.


Thanks.

did you cold email partners with whom you did not go to the same undergrad/law school? Would cold emailing to the practice group head whom I have zero ties with be considered poor judgment?

No ties. Cold emails to partners were to the head of practice group I was interested in.

oblig.lawl.ref

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby oblig.lawl.ref » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:10 pm

Didn't read all this but I actually had great success emailing partners directly. So not sure why the difference there. I emailed the recruiting partners as listed on nalp and cc'd recruiting dept. Had about a dozens screeners and a handful of CBs that way as a 2L. I think as a less desperate 3L I only emailed recruiting depts but may have cc'd a hiring partner or two... i don't remember.

1styearlateral

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby 1styearlateral » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:54 pm

It all really depends on the personality of the person you're reaching out to and getting lucky emailing them at a time when they're not swamped.

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:07 pm

Can we shift this back to specific advice about how to MM and which firms are more receptive to it?

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:04 pm

oblig.lawl.ref wrote:Didn't read all this but I actually had great success emailing partners directly. So not sure why the difference there. I emailed the recruiting partners as listed on nalp and cc'd recruiting dept. Had about a dozens screeners and a handful of CBs that way as a 2L. I think as a less desperate 3L I only emailed recruiting depts but may have cc'd a hiring partner or two... i don't remember.


Do you think cc'ing both the partner and recruiting manager made a difference? Could it be that your GPA was already awesome? Can you provide more detail about your stats?

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:21 pm

If a firm does not show any current openings relevant to Junior Associate experience, do you skip the firm? How do you send 200 apps when vast majority of the firms don't have available openings? If you send an app to a position you aren't qualified for or to a recruiter whose firm doesn't show any opening, isn't this why there's such abysmal response rate to MM?

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:16 am

Not your typical candidate, lots of WE etc. but targeting partners with some tie to my past (UG or LS etc.) who work in practice areas where I have work experience, my success rate for getting a screener in the past was at least 1/4-1/5, with both my SA and a lateral position coming from such mailing. This was true even though neither was an "opening" and both had to be positions that were "created: by the partners involved after unsolicited emails. Try to find someone with enough pull, impress the hell out of them and have them go to bat for you in front of their other partners. It can work even if you don't meet the firm's GPA cut offs etc. if several influential partners go and tell HR to make it happen. Its actually kind of funny when HR asks you to fill out a full application package but then says that the writing sample can be anything since it won't be read and they just need a transcript for their files.

With grades slightly lower than traditional cut offs at my LS (like 0.1), HR mailings have all gone straight to the trash in my experience. They're just looking for a reason to reject to reduce the pile of applications on their desk. I think I've done web applications and HR mailings at least 100 times and gotten 2-3 screeners from that. Similar number of partner mailings resulted in 10x the screeners and several offers of jobs.

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MurdockLLP

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby MurdockLLP » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:Not your typical candidate, lots of WE etc. but targeting partners with some tie to my past (UG or LS etc.) who work in practice areas where I have work experience, my success rate for getting a screener in the past was at least 1/4-1/5, with both my SA and a lateral position coming from such mailing. This was true even though neither was an "opening" and both had to be positions that were "created: by the partners involved after unsolicited emails. Try to find someone with enough pull, impress the hell out of them and have them go to bat for you in front of their other partners. It can work even if you don't meet the firm's GPA cut offs etc. if several influential partners go and tell HR to make it happen. Its actually kind of funny when HR asks you to fill out a full application package but then says that the writing sample can be anything since it won't be read and they just need a transcript for their files.


What does one of these emails look like? Please PM if you're uncomfortable posting here.

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:10 am

MurdockLLP wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not your typical candidate, lots of WE etc. but targeting partners with some tie to my past (UG or LS etc.) who work in practice areas where I have work experience, my success rate for getting a screener in the past was at least 1/4-1/5, with both my SA and a lateral position coming from such mailing. This was true even though neither was an "opening" and both had to be positions that were "created: by the partners involved after unsolicited emails. Try to find someone with enough pull, impress the hell out of them and have them go to bat for you in front of their other partners. It can work even if you don't meet the firm's GPA cut offs etc. if several influential partners go and tell HR to make it happen. Its actually kind of funny when HR asks you to fill out a full application package but then says that the writing sample can be anything since it won't be read and they just need a transcript for their files.


What does one of these emails look like? Please PM if you're uncomfortable posting here.


Anon from above, no real secrets, each mail was usually 3 paragraphs, the first being a quick intro and what I thought I could bring to that particular partner's team in terms of value-add right away, the second usually a standard recitation of my background, and then a conclusion with why I chose to reach out to them in particular and why I felt that their practice group might be a good fit. Subject line usually highlighting the connection we shared and that I was inquiring about the XYZ practice at their firm.

I found that the key to getting the letter opened in the first place is a subject that may be interpreted as a vague inquiry for legal services, then you'd have maybe 2-4 lines to get enough of their attention for them to read the rest. I've had roughly equal success with attaching or not attaching a resume in an initial email.

People are busy, grab their attention and hammer home your points quickly or you might as well not waste your time. Don't assume that your one generic letter will get you what you want fired at 100 firms unless you're above median at HYS/CCN.

Anonymous User
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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
MurdockLLP wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not your typical candidate, lots of WE etc. but targeting partners with some tie to my past (UG or LS etc.) who work in practice areas where I have work experience, my success rate for getting a screener in the past was at least 1/4-1/5, with both my SA and a lateral position coming from such mailing. This was true even though neither was an "opening" and both had to be positions that were "created: by the partners involved after unsolicited emails. Try to find someone with enough pull, impress the hell out of them and have them go to bat for you in front of their other partners. It can work even if you don't meet the firm's GPA cut offs etc. if several influential partners go and tell HR to make it happen. Its actually kind of funny when HR asks you to fill out a full application package but then says that the writing sample can be anything since it won't be read and they just need a transcript for their files.


What does one of these emails look like? Please PM if you're uncomfortable posting here.


Anon from above, no real secrets, each mail was usually 3 paragraphs, the first being a quick intro and what I thought I could bring to that particular partner's team in terms of value-add right away, the second usually a standard recitation of my background, and then a conclusion with why I chose to reach out to them in particular and why I felt that their practice group might be a good fit. Subject line usually highlighting the connection we shared and that I was inquiring about the XYZ practice at their firm.

I found that the key to getting the letter opened in the first place is a subject that may be interpreted as a vague inquiry for legal services, then you'd have maybe 2-4 lines to get enough of their attention for them to read the rest. I've had roughly equal success with attaching or not attaching a resume in an initial email.

People are busy, grab their attention and hammer home your points quickly or you might as well not waste your time. Don't assume that your one generic letter will get you what you want fired at 100 firms unless you're above median at HYS/CCN.


Would you say close to a full page length cover is too long? How short were your 3 paragraphs? And can you provide an example of a subject line you used?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
MurdockLLP wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not your typical candidate, lots of WE etc. but targeting partners with some tie to my past (UG or LS etc.) who work in practice areas where I have work experience, my success rate for getting a screener in the past was at least 1/4-1/5, with both my SA and a lateral position coming from such mailing. This was true even though neither was an "opening" and both had to be positions that were "created: by the partners involved after unsolicited emails. Try to find someone with enough pull, impress the hell out of them and have them go to bat for you in front of their other partners. It can work even if you don't meet the firm's GPA cut offs etc. if several influential partners go and tell HR to make it happen. Its actually kind of funny when HR asks you to fill out a full application package but then says that the writing sample can be anything since it won't be read and they just need a transcript for their files.


What does one of these emails look like? Please PM if you're uncomfortable posting here.


Anon from above, no real secrets, each mail was usually 3 paragraphs, the first being a quick intro and what I thought I could bring to that particular partner's team in terms of value-add right away, the second usually a standard recitation of my background, and then a conclusion with why I chose to reach out to them in particular and why I felt that their practice group might be a good fit. Subject line usually highlighting the connection we shared and that I was inquiring about the XYZ practice at their firm.

I found that the key to getting the letter opened in the first place is a subject that may be interpreted as a vague inquiry for legal services, then you'd have maybe 2-4 lines to get enough of their attention for them to read the rest. I've had roughly equal success with attaching or not attaching a resume in an initial email.

People are busy, grab their attention and hammer home your points quickly or you might as well not waste your time. Don't assume that your one generic letter will get you what you want fired at 100 firms unless you're above median at HYS/CCN.


Would you say close to a full page length cover is too long? How short were your 3 paragraphs? And can you provide an example of a subject line you used?


As with anything you write as a lawyer, length probably doesn't equate well with quality. Its easier to write a 30 page brief than a 10 page brief type of deal. For certain people where I thought I could have substantive items that would help my case I put more in, but curate with a less is more philosophy. Think about being on the receiving end of 300 emails a day. How much time would you give to a piece of spam even if you found the heading etc. funny or interesting. That's the attention span you're dealing with.

As for subject lines, if all you have in common is being an alum of the same school, sometimes a line like:

Inquiry re Software Licensing at Firm XYZ by a fellow ABC alum

You're likely to get a quick look at the body that way just in case its a possible new client.

Partners are people, and human psychology is a big part of doing deals and being a lawyer.

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
As with anything you write as a lawyer, length probably doesn't equate well with quality. Its easier to write a 30 page brief than a 10 page brief type of deal. For certain people where I thought I could have substantive items that would help my case I put more in, but curate with a less is more philosophy. Think about being on the receiving end of 300 emails a day. How much time would you give to a piece of spam even if you found the heading etc. funny or interesting. That's the attention span you're dealing with.

As for subject lines, if all you have in common is being an alum of the same school, sometimes a line like:

Inquiry re Software Licensing at Firm XYZ by a fellow ABC alum

You're likely to get a quick look at the body that way just in case its a possible new client.

Partners are people, and human psychology is a big part of doing deals and being a lawyer.


Did you include your transcript in your material? Assuming you are post grad that is. I have 1 year of lit but have a median gpa... 3.2 and i dont think employers want to see that.

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
As with anything you write as a lawyer, length probably doesn't equate well with quality. Its easier to write a 30 page brief than a 10 page brief type of deal. For certain people where I thought I could have substantive items that would help my case I put more in, but curate with a less is more philosophy. Think about being on the receiving end of 300 emails a day. How much time would you give to a piece of spam even if you found the heading etc. funny or interesting. That's the attention span you're dealing with.

As for subject lines, if all you have in common is being an alum of the same school, sometimes a line like:

Inquiry re Software Licensing at Firm XYZ by a fellow ABC alum

You're likely to get a quick look at the body that way just in case its a possible new client.

Partners are people, and human psychology is a big part of doing deals and being a lawyer.


Did you include your transcript in your material? Assuming you are post grad that is. I have 1 year of lit but have a median gpa... 3.2 and i dont think employers want to see that.


I didn't but it was in my resume. I can't think of a good way to describe my school without outing myself or at least my school, other than saying that top 1/3 is cum laude and about 30-40% get biglaw, I graduated like .05 from cum laude so not the best gpa but probably in the range that would stand a shot anyway?

If you have something to bring then your GPA is not as important especially with post grad experience.

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
As with anything you write as a lawyer, length probably doesn't equate well with quality. Its easier to write a 30 page brief than a 10 page brief type of deal. For certain people where I thought I could have substantive items that would help my case I put more in, but curate with a less is more philosophy. Think about being on the receiving end of 300 emails a day. How much time would you give to a piece of spam even if you found the heading etc. funny or interesting. That's the attention span you're dealing with.

As for subject lines, if all you have in common is being an alum of the same school, sometimes a line like:

Inquiry re Software Licensing at Firm XYZ by a fellow ABC alum

You're likely to get a quick look at the body that way just in case its a possible new client.

Partners are people, and human psychology is a big part of doing deals and being a lawyer.


Did you include your transcript in your material? Assuming you are post grad that is. I have 1 year of lit but have a median gpa... 3.2 and i dont think employers want to see that.


I didn't but it was in my resume. I can't think of a good way to describe my school without outing myself or at least my school, other than saying that top 1/3 is cum laude and about 30-40% get biglaw, I graduated like .05 from cum laude so not the best gpa but probably in the range that would stand a shot anyway?

If you have something to bring then your GPA is not as important especially with post grad experience.


But would you still include a transcript or write down a 3.2 GPA on the resume? Again 3.2 sounds really low but it's the median at my school.

Did you say you wanted a particular area of law? i.e., product liability, personal injury, etc? Or did you say broadly as an associate? Perhaps in the middle - like lit/transactional?

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Re: massmailing partners does not work

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:32 pm

Quotes getting a bit too deep but I think I mentioned going as specific as to targeting a particular partner's focus within a subcategory. For example, for lit it would be great to be able to say you could help with his hatch-waxman practice or her white collar practice and why.

Another thing to pay attention to, partners with a practice area that can support an associate are more likely to have the clout to make something happen. The guy who does high profile bet the company cases is more likely to be able to help you than the one who is in charge of the doc review staff attorneys :), then again the second guy might have easier standards to meet...



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