I made a mistake going to law school

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L_William_W

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I made a mistake going to law school

Postby L_William_W » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:05 pm

Long story short, I went to law school in NYC to impress my parents. My grades sucked in law school. I was literally 3 points away from getting academically dismissed. I took the NY bar twice and got my ass handed to me each time (February and July 2014). I then took the NJ bar (February 2015) and flunked. I passed the July 2015 NJ bar by the skin of my teeth.

All of the people I knew from law school got jobs. I don't like the law business. Every judge that I've met was a narcissistic asshole. After I flunked the NY bar in July 2014, I was fired from an internship. I'm an introvert. At the same time, I need to eat and I need to pay off my student loans. Almost every job posting requires knowing a foreign language and/or having "x" amount of experience. I lucked out and got two interviews. I ostensibly had a good rapport with each interviewer. They treated me like I was already hired. 3 weeks later, neither of them called back.

FML

Please, useful advice only. No sarcastic or condescending remarks.

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elendinel

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby elendinel » Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:59 pm

L_William_W wrote:Long story short, I went to law school in NYC to impress my parents. My grades sucked in law school. I was literally 3 points away from getting academically dismissed. I took the NY bar twice and got my ass handed to me each time (February and July 2014). I then took the NJ bar (February 2015) and flunked. I passed the July 2015 NJ bar by the skin of my teeth.

All of the people I knew from law school got jobs. I don't like the law business. Every judge that I've met was a narcissistic asshole. After I flunked the NY bar in July 2014, I was fired from an internship. I'm an introvert. At the same time, I need to eat and I need to pay off my student loans. Almost every job posting requires knowing a foreign language and/or having "x" amount of experience. I lucked out and got two interviews. I ostensibly had a good rapport with each interviewer. They treated me like I was already hired. 3 weeks later, neither of them called back.

FML

Please, useful advice only. No sarcastic or condescending remarks.


Can you follow-up on the interviews? At this point it doesn't hurt to do so; some firms are slow to get back to you, depending on how good the partners/etc. are at remembering about the hiring process. Someone in my group famously waited a few months before getting a callback for another round of interviews.

What was your UG degree? Any chance you can get a job related to that while you try to find a legal job?

bern victim

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby bern victim » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:18 pm

sign up for PAYE or REPAYE if u haven't already and get ur loan payments to $0

i would follow up w/ the firms u interviewed with

and then look at non-legal jobs. take the loss and get out of the industry.

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84651846190

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby 84651846190 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:31 pm

Thank you for telling your story. Too many people who made a mistake going to law school never tell their stories (usually out of shame).

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:17 pm

1. Many people in other industry (e.g. business) are also narcissistic assholes. Try to train yourself not to get emotionally defensive around those people. Not listening to what they are saying actually helps. Sometimes (or often) I just nod, smile and just get along with it without paying attention to whatever they are saying.

2. Find what you are really good at.Take some tests, not just personality test, but a career aptitude test where your ability will be tested. If you can't find one, you might as well accept the fact that it might not be about a law school, per se, but about the fact that you may not be smart enough to beat smarter people in law school. Be humble and start with a low-paying job. (legal aid/government?)

3. If you majored in one of those useless (from capitalists' perspective) humanities - poli-science/literature/philosophy and are not interested in pursuing a Ph.D, I don't think you have many options. Sales, HR, internship at a Senator's office, etc? Do something. Don't waste your time.

yay

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby yay » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:40 am

i know some people who were not a good fit for the legal industry and ended up in similar situations. hell there are a few who badly wanted it, got it, and now are jobless in a major market.

sure these folks are in the minority but from what i can see, i think it would be much better to seek job opportunities in education. often times private schools, tutoring programs, and some after school gigs for rich kids pay quite well and will give you the flexibility you need to continue job searching. i dont know if u went to NYU or a law school in NY (big difference) but if the latter with bad grades, it is going to take a while. you might need to start off in a small firm/solo. good luck.

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zot1

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby zot1 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:1. Many people in other industry (e.g. business) are also narcissistic assholes. Try to train yourself not to get emotionally defensive around those people. Not listening to what they are saying actually helps. Sometimes (or often) I just nod, smile and just get along with it without paying attention to whatever they are saying.

2. Find what you are really good at.Take some tests, not just personality test, but a career aptitude test where your ability will be tested. If you can't find one, you might as well accept the fact that it might not be about a law school, per se, but about the fact that you may not be smart enough to beat smarter people in law school. Be humble and start with a low-paying job. (legal aid/government?)

3. If you majored in one of those useless (from capitalists' perspective) humanities - poli-science/literature/philosophy and are not interested in pursuing a Ph.D, I don't think you have many options. Sales, HR, internship at a Senator's office, etc? Do something. Don't waste your time.


I can't tell if you're implying that it's easier to get a government/legal aid job because those who work there are not as smart as other people in law school. It must be that my tiny government brain can't read properly.

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mrs.miawallace

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby mrs.miawallace » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:17 am

zot1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:1. Many people in other industry (e.g. business) are also narcissistic assholes. Try to train yourself not to get emotionally defensive around those people. Not listening to what they are saying actually helps. Sometimes (or often) I just nod, smile and just get along with it without paying attention to whatever they are saying.

2. Find what you are really good at.Take some tests, not just personality test, but a career aptitude test where your ability will be tested. If you can't find one, you might as well accept the fact that it might not be about a law school, per se, but about the fact that you may not be smart enough to beat smarter people in law school. Be humble and start with a low-paying job. (legal aid/government?)

3. If you majored in one of those useless (from capitalists' perspective) humanities - poli-science/literature/philosophy and are not interested in pursuing a Ph.D, I don't think you have many options. Sales, HR, internship at a Senator's office, etc? Do something. Don't waste your time.


I can't tell if you're implying that it's easier to get a government/legal aid job because those who work there are not as smart as other people in law school. It must be that my tiny government brain can't read properly.


entertaining twist of a so far supportive thread

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:26 am

Well, this is the shit that I'm talking about (I'm the original poster. I don't know why I'm listed as "anonymous"). I still remember back in November 2014 when I was in that internship that I was fired from. As soon as we got the bar results, people were bragging about how they passed. I was made fun of because I didn't pass. I wish I could build a time machine, go back to 2010, and talk myself out of going to law school and dealing with the misery of sadistic, sociopathic professors who enjoy failing people, snooty ass classmates, jackass judges, and of course the bar exam...

After thinking about it, I'm going to apply for a clerkship. By the law of averages, if I apply to 20 or 30, I'll get accepted to at least one of them, hopefully. The only caveat is that even if I was accepted, the clerkship would begin next August. However, I could probably find a minimum-wage non-legal job in the interim.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pomeranian

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby Pomeranian » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:28 am

If "all" the people you knew got jobs, are you a NYU or Columbia grad? If so, you could probably find something legal eventually.

If you hate law, i would learn IT, Networking, or coding. You don't even need to go back for a degree. There are coding bootcamps ( Dev Bootcamp, etc) and certificate programs.

tyroneslothrop1

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby tyroneslothrop1 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:47 am

Just get a job, any job, in an industry you might be interested in. You like books? Go be an office assistant at a publisher. You'll make shit money but you'll be out of the house and who knows you may find something you like.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:12 pm

Applying to 20-30 clerkships isn't going to get you one.

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zot1

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby zot1 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:25 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Applying to 20-30 clerkships isn't going to get you one.


TCR.

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zot1

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby zot1 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:29 pm

mrs.miawallace wrote:entertaining twist of a so far supportive thread


Unless things have changed, you can't just waltz into a government or legal aid job. Also, the former isn't necessarily low paying.

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Pomeranian

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby Pomeranian » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:36 pm

.
Last edited by Pomeranian on Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby Pomeranian » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Well, this is the shit that I'm talking about (I'm the original poster. I don't know why I'm listed as "anonymous"). I still remember back in November 2014 when I was in that internship that I was fired from. As soon as we got the bar results, people were bragging about how they passed. I was made fun of because I didn't pass. I wish I could build a time machine, go back to 2010, and talk myself out of going to law school and dealing with the misery of sadistic, sociopathic professors who enjoy failing people, snooty ass classmates, jackass judges, and of course the bar exam...

After thinking about it, I'm going to apply for a clerkship. By the law of averages, if I apply to 20 or 30, I'll get accepted to at least one of them, hopefully. The only caveat is that even if I was accepted, the clerkship would begin next August. However, I could probably find a minimum-wage non-legal job in the interim.



Based on your old posts, your law school is known for being public interest oriented. Is this an area of law you're still interested in? Also, based on LST, I can assure you that you're not the only person struggling to find legal work in your class.

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby fauxpsych » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:49 pm

Honestly, OP, the best piece of advice you can get is to stop blaming everything and everyone else for your own drawbacks.

You went to law school "to impress your parents".

You don't like the law business because judges are "narcissistic assholes".

You think "sociopathic professors who enjoy failing people" is the reason you got 3 D's and 4 C's.

Take some goddamn responsibility for your actions and adjust your locus of control. Hell, even your plan of applying to 20-30 clerkships is based on passively cashing in on some perceived "law of averages".

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Johann

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby Johann » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:55 pm

compliance jobs in big cities at big banks, insurance, etc. not really legal. pretty boring. but pay decently and minimal work.

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby 1styearlateral » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Well, this is the shit that I'm talking about (I'm the original poster. I don't know why I'm listed as "anonymous"). I still remember back in November 2014 when I was in that internship that I was fired from. As soon as we got the bar results, people were bragging about how they passed. I was made fun of because I didn't pass. I wish I could build a time machine, go back to 2010, and talk myself out of going to law school and dealing with the misery of sadistic, sociopathic professors who enjoy failing people, snooty ass classmates, jackass judges, and of course the bar exam...

After thinking about it, I'm going to apply for a clerkship. By the law of averages, if I apply to 20 or 30, I'll get accepted to at least one of them, hopefully. The only caveat is that even if I was accepted, the clerkship would begin next August. However, I could probably find a minimum-wage non-legal job in the interim.

You'll get something eventually, especially if you went to an NYU/Columbia/Fordham. Don't worry about not passing the bar exam the first, second, third, etc. time. You passed.

There's plenty of opportunities out there. Literally just today I had an attorney email me to see if I knew anyone interested in a NJ clerkship (Aug. 2017). Keep in touch with classmates and network the hell out of your market. Something will come up and if you're likable you'll get a recommendation.

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elendinel

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby elendinel » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:20 pm

Pomeranian wrote:If "all" the people you knew got jobs, are you a NYU or Columbia grad? If so, you could probably find something legal eventually.

If you hate law, i would learn IT, Networking, or coding. You don't even need to go back for a degree. There are coding bootcamps ( Dev Bootcamp, etc) and certificate programs.


Anyone trying to get a job in programming in the next couple years should probably get a legit degree if they want to still have a job in a few years. Actual computer science knowledge is becoming more and more important as code quality starts becoming more and more important again.

HonestAdvice

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby HonestAdvice » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:26 pm

In terms of judges being assholes, depending on the type of court, they could be perfectly pleasant outside of work. It's not always the case, but the percentage of people who are pierces of shit in family court dwarfs the general POS ratio. After a week, even Jesus would give up on humanity and openly chug whiskey on the bench.
Last edited by HonestAdvice on Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:27 pm

Are you only applying for doc review at this point? You definitely don't need a foreign language to get hired, you're too defeatist here.
You got two interviews, so I'm assuming you're not completely unhireable. If you're from a lower tier, I know of people from TTT with somewhat higher GPA than yours, I'm guessing, who ended up clerking in NJ--through networking connections, otherwise it wouldn't have happened. You don't know any judges in NJ, you say. Go out and find everyone who might have the slightest interest in helping you and find out who they know, and then find out who those people know.

You didn't answer question about undergrad major. Did you never want to be a lawyer? I'm confused about the "impressing parents" bit. Forget about coding bootcamp unless you were a STEM major.
[If you are able to answer less belligerently, you can prevent this thread from becoming another "flagellate the OP until he runs away" type of thing, which is always fun for everyone involved but not particularly productive.]

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:After thinking about it, I'm going to apply for a clerkship. By the law of averages, if I apply to 20 or 30, I'll get accepted to at least one of them, hopefully. The only caveat is that even if I was accepted, the clerkship would begin next August. However, I could probably find a minimum-wage non-legal job in the interim.


Clerkships aren't that easy to get; this isn't to say you won't get one, but it is to say, don't assume that jobs are easier to get just because they pay less. Same goes for government/legal aid/other public interest careers. None of them are desperate for applicants, so do pursue them if you're interested in those jobs, but don't think of them as safety options.

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pancakes3

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby pancakes3 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:34 pm

zot1 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Applying to 20-30 clerkships isn't going to get you one.


TCR.


don't mean to derail but how hard is it to get non A3 clerkships?

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zot1

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Re: I made a mistake going to law school

Postby zot1 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:42 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
zot1 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Applying to 20-30 clerkships isn't going to get you one.


TCR.


don't mean to derail but how hard is it to get non A3 clerkships?


Depends.

If state clerkship, general knowledge is that you need state ties.

If bankruptcy, people say you need demonstrated commitment but I know people who've gotten them without ever taking bankruptcy classes.

Not sure how it works with other courts and admin boards.



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