NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

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NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:52 pm

Since the matching Vault firms now considerably outnumber our TTTragic, below-market firms, I thought a list of firms that have yet to match would be easier to navigate than the list of those that have.

Below, ordered by 2016 Vault ranking, are the firms that have not announced a raise. Not included are those firms from which we are unlikely to get an announcement (WLRK - lol; W&C - already started at 200k; Jones Day - black box/alternative model).

Firms that pay below market across the board are indicated with an asterisk and a parenthetical with the highest major-market salary I could find.

Feel free to point out any inaccuracies and they will be corrected.


Updated and reordered according to PPP.

Get Yer Pitchforks :evil: :twisted: (> 1 Mil. in PPP):
91. *Manatt [1,385,000]
63. Holland & Knight [1,250,000]
68. Foley & Lardner [1,130,000] - TTTrolled by Foley Hoag
59. Perkins Coie [1,100,000]
89. Mintz Levin [1,065,000]
77. *McGuireWoods [1,045,000]
90. Pepper Hamilton [1,025,000]
86. Seyfarth Shaw [1,020,000]

<1 Mil. in PPP
74. Hunton & Williams [950,000]
78. Arent Fox [935,000]
64. Baker & Hostetler [930,000]
67. Nixon Peabody [905,000]
94. *Duane Morris [900,000]
98. Blank Rome [890,000]
82. *Squire Patton Boggs [845,000]
71. *Bryan Cave [805,000]
92. Drinker Biddle [800,000]
97. *Dorsey & Whitney [600,000]

80. *Dentons ("refused" to continue reporting PPP in 2014 - lol)
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:44 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:42 pm

Midlevel checking in from one of those firms. Will be stuck working until at least 5 AM this evening and am waiting with BATED BREATH for dat compensation email but alas the silence is DEAFENING as I subsist on 19 hour-old "fresh" fruit from the break room.

Recruiters are circling associates like JAWS as vague promises of a match sans confirmation of definite timeline FEEBLY attempt to restore confidence and maintain FOCUS of noble associates.

Yearning for seppuku as I type this with no alerts from Inbox.

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:43 pm

Oh the great 'guin will bring us through this dark Southern Hemisphere winter!

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:08 am

If K&L can afford 180, the others firms should be embarrassed. (My bitterness is showing)

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:24 am

ManaTTT is trash. How do they think they can get away with 30k below going into OCI? Do they just not care about getting the best talent?

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:15 am

Fingers crossed for some positive developments today. While better than an outright 'no', the silence is getting pretty aggravating.

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby MCFC » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:28 am

I think you are being a little generous to Jones Day.

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:30 am

Bryan Cave pays below market NY (They start at 145K for 1st year, however they recently announced that 1st year salaries will be raised to 160k effective January 1, 2017)

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:If K&L can afford 180, the others firms should be embarrassed. (My bitterness is showing)


K&L didn't raise its biggest offices to 180k though...

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:59 am

I would expect that Patterson has to raise right? They're a NYC-only firm with PPP over $1.5M and they recruit almost exclusively from the clerkship applicant pool now. Wouldn't they have trouble attracting talent from clerkships if they're not paying market anymore?

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:07 am

I swear I'm getting 5 recruiter calls a day reminding me that my firm hasn't joined the party. What's a resume?

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:10 am

MCFC wrote:I think you are being a little generous to Jones Day.


Agreed that quirkiness shouldn't exempt them from the shame list. Added them back.

Anonymous User wrote:Bryan Cave pays below market NY (They start at 145K for 1st year, however they recently announced that 1st year salaries will be raised to 160k effective January 1, 2017)


That's rough. Updated.

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby reasonable troll » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:I would expect that Patterson has to raise right? They're a NYC-only firm with PPP over $1.5M and they recruit almost exclusively from the clerkship applicant pool now. Wouldn't they have trouble attracting talent from clerkships if they're not paying market anymore?



Anybody want to do some crystal ball gazing and predict how the stragglers are likely to shake out?

Presumably anyone still paying below 160 in NYC in 2016 is not going to make any jump to 180. Will they still raise to maintain the same spread, or let Cravath & Co. pull away further?

It does seem like Patterson would have to match to stay competitive. Are there any other MUSTRAISE firms on this list? Will those firms do a true match (i.e. no compression up the scale, all offices save the usual small markets, effective July 1) or will they go the way of K&L Gates?

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:24 am

Williams & Connolly should be on this list as long as its midlevels are $30k-$70k behind market in total comp.

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:32 am

Isn't GT a must raise?

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:44 am

Former Hunton NY/DC associate here. I don't think they can afford to match, which likely means McGuire won't either. Currently they are far behind the V50 in several ways:

- Black box "bonuses" of around 10k are awarded only to juniors and midlevels who bill around 2100-2200 hours. Those who bill 2000 get nothing. Senior associates who bill 2000 hours get around 10k-20k. Higher bonuses (20k-30k) are attainable for those billing 2400-2500 hours.

- Raises are lockstep, but associates who bill 1800-1900 hours are denied raises. When I left, several associates were stuck at 185k and 210k.

- 5th-year associates and higher are required to hit certain revenue targets in addition to billing 2000 hours to get a raise. I believe it was roughly 700k for 5th years, 750k for 6th years, and 800k for 7th years. That's no problem assuming the standard billing rate times 2000 hours, but many associates were billing at hugely discounted rates (between 200-300/hour) and were effectively unable to bring in that much revenue. Worse, Hunton introduced this system last year and applied it retroactively so that some associates that were expecting a raise didn't get one.

- Junior partners make less than senior V10 associates when including lockstep bonuses. I believe compensation is around 300k for those without business.

If they match, they will likely move NY and DC to 180k but not raise salaries as much for midlevels and seniors, and find more ways to deny raises.

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby sublime » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:50 am

Damn. That's shitty. I didn't know that about Hunton.

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If K&L can afford 180, the others firms should be embarrassed. (My bitterness is showing)


K&L didn't raise its biggest offices to 180k though...


K&L actually can't afford 180k. That's the flaw in this argument to begin with. More rainmakers will leave and I suspect K&L will go the way of Dewey within 5-10 years

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby sublime » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If K&L can afford 180, the others firms should be embarrassed. (My bitterness is showing)


K&L didn't raise its biggest offices to 180k though...


K&L actually can't afford 180k. That's the flaw in this argument to begin with. More rainmakers will leave and I suspect K&L will go the way of Dewey within 5-10 years



Yea, they seem to be a firm that matched but prob should not have.

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:14 am

sublime wrote:Damn. That's shitty. I didn't know that about Hunton.

Forgot another thing: They purport to give credit for 50 hours of pro bono, but it basically only matters for going from 1950 to 2000, to get a raise (though some associates who are slightly below 2000 get raises anyway depending on if they are liked and valued). It's irrelevant for bonus purposes and irrelevant for raises once associates are required to hit revenue targets as well. By contrast, my new firm awards lockstep bonuses for anyone that hits 1950 including 200 pro bono hours (though I'm not sure how the recent raises will impact the bonus situation).

Comparing my listed and actual billing rates at both firms, it's easy to see why only the higher-ranked firms can raise salaries without issue. I think that when I left I billed less than $400/hour (actual), and now I bill around $600/hour. At those rates, someone who bills $600/hour x 1750 will bring in $250k more revenue than someone who bills $400/hour x 2000.

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If K&L can afford 180, the others firms should be embarrassed. (My bitterness is showing)


K&L didn't raise its biggest offices to 180k though...


K&L actually can't afford 180k. That's the flaw in this argument to begin with. More rainmakers will leave and I suspect K&L will go the way of Dewey within 5-10 years



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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:59 pm

U practicing turneys. R recruits really call tho?

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Re: NORAISE List - ITT, the proleTTTariat of the V100 keep hoping for/commiserate lack of 180k

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:18 pm

Update on ManatTTT: Apparently there will be no match since they claim that the move from 125-150K at the beginning of the year was "generous." To any rising 2L's out there considering them, avoid like the plague. Maybe if they get zero bids at OCI's they'll start to realize how dumb they are.



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