How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

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1styearlateral

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby 1styearlateral » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:10 pm

Yeah, I mean definitely go check it out so you know what your options are. Living in NYC is definitely an experience, although an expensive one at that. Once you start working, every minute not spent commuting is golden. I'm absolutely with you; I would pay a premium to make my life a little less frustrating (the Lincoln tunnel is hell on earth).

Don't go to NJ thinking you'll do away with brokers; they're everywhere. I had to pay a fee, which IIRC was 1 month's rent. Unfortunately, they're a part of city living and as one person here had already mentioned, I'm not really sure what they're purpose is these days. When you pass the bar, you can apply for your broker's license, but I'm not really sure how that will help you renting (although I think you can broker your own deal if you're purchasing).

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:17 pm

Just want to point out that a train ride commute is not the same as subway/driving. You can honestly bill a good portion of it if you have work. For example, morning emails get handled on the ride in etc.

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:07 pm

I live in UES and have a decent sized 1bd for $2600. it's not the most exciting, but it's really convenient for my commute (and I live near a few grocery stores etc). I used a broker, but if you have time you can certainly get away with not using one (and I don't plan on using one the next time I move).

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:18 pm

Paying $2400 for a flex one bedroom in midtown 5 minutes away from work. feeling pretty good about that decision right now

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WokeUpInACar

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby WokeUpInACar » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:39 pm

1styearlateral wrote:
imalreadyamember? wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
imalreadyamember? wrote:I think our budget is about $3500 max, but my wife is a lawyer and will be at a PD (she has a soul) and I'll be starting as a 2nd year (we're both clerks) so our income is higher than a single first year. Probably doing Brooklyn because both our offices are downtown and fuck Manhattan (or jersey LOL though it would be cheaper). Probably 1br but 2 would be great if we could. Lastly, would really prefer not to use a broker and we have people who can help look at places, but sometimes the market in that stupid city is set up such that a broker is necessary. Fuck it.

The biggest problem is that apts and brokers all need their shit up front. Well listen, I'll be making quite a bit of money soon enough but I won't have it when I show up. But if we find a place we want for a couple years, at near our max, where they will want a security deposit, thay could be $7k plus the fucking massive broker fee. I have a quick turnaround before my wife starts, her job isn't gonna advance her salary, and we can't accept money while working for judges. So we're in a bit of a pickle there and might have to live with her parents and commute about 45 min by train from Long Island for a month or two (ugh seriously shoot me).

I wish I could find a place that will give me a couple weeks but that seems unlikely. I'm rambling now and sure nobody cares.


If your budget is $3500 you could get a great place (great 2 be or AMAZING 1 br) in Hoboken right next to th Path. Be downtown in 10 min. But if your wife is going to be a PD, she might be required to be a NY resident (not sure about that though).


Anonymous User wrote:Anon because sharing enough to maybe out myself.

Tax savings for being in NJ are significant.


The PATH would be really convenient because it spits out close to our jobs on the Manhattan side. And the savings would definitely be significant. Do you have to pay any NY/NYC income taxes or just NJ, and how much lower would it be? If we're just renting, then other than lower rent, would we save a lot (e.g., taxes and other stuff I haven't thought of)?

One main problem is that my wife is from Long Island and her parents still live there. We lived in Brooklyn for a short time before we moved away to clerk, and it was convenient and nice being about 30-45 min drive from her parents. They could stop by to visit, bring us stuff... we stored/will store our car at their house, and they can just pop over and bring it to us easily, that sort of thing. So living in NJ would double that time (and even more when there's terrible city/tunnel traffic. So the location would be convenient for work but really inconvenient for that purpose.

If the cost savings are really really significant then we need to consider the option but it might be too hard for us.


You pay NJ state income and NYC tax, but I received nearly all of the NYC taxes I paid back on my return. If you're going to be spending north of $3k/mo. in rent in Hoboken, you'll more than likely be getting a parking spot with that. To compare, I pay $2,800/mo. for a 2 bed, 2 bath that includes a deeded parking spot (W/D too!). Granted, I'm not near the Path (I'm uptown), and the closer you get to the Path the more expensive the apartments, but not that much more. It's not a luxury condo by any means (no doorman), but it's definitely more than habitable.

I think having to have 2 people drive 30-45 min to drop a car off is pretty inconvenient for everyone involved, but to each his own. And if it were me, I wouldn't mind putting 2 rivers between me and my wife's parents. :roll:

I only play devil's advocate because I'm pretty familiar with the NYC real estate market and Williamsburg, Bed Stuy, Park Slope, and Bushwick are all nearing Manhattan-esq prices. I had a buddy who lived in Crown Heights, and that place is a dump. Plus, the commute isn't that great because the subway cars are PACKED in the mornings and it's not uncommon to have to let one go by in order to squeeze in the next.

Honestly, unless you're within walking distance or a 3-5 subway stop away from work, you're just going to have to pick your poison. I make the NJ to NY commute work for me, but I definitely wouldn't mind being closer to the office. That being said, I don't think my moving from Hoboken to Brooklyn would really change my commute and would increase my rent or decrease my standard of living.

So I've seen people say this a lot, but I've also seen several people claim that you're just not subject to NYC tax as a NJ resident and shouldn't be paying it in the first place.

I decided to do some research, and it seems a lot of people are probably not doing this as efficiently as they could be. You just have to submit this form to your employer, and there should be no NYC tax imposed on you at all. You'd start getting higher paychecks instead of that tax return the next year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

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WokeUpInACar

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby WokeUpInACar » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just want to point out that a train ride commute is not the same as subway/driving. You can honestly bill a good portion of it if you have work. For example, morning emails get handled on the ride in etc.

I'm oblivious on this and have only looked into the PATH near JC and Hoboken, so I'm curious, where in Jersey can you live to have a short-ish train ride commute instead of the subway?

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby Biglaw Investor » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:54 pm

WokeUpInACar wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
imalreadyamember? wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
imalreadyamember? wrote:I think our budget is about $3500 max, but my wife is a lawyer and will be at a PD (she has a soul) and I'll be starting as a 2nd year (we're both clerks) so our income is higher than a single first year. Probably doing Brooklyn because both our offices are downtown and fuck Manhattan (or jersey LOL though it would be cheaper). Probably 1br but 2 would be great if we could. Lastly, would really prefer not to use a broker and we have people who can help look at places, but sometimes the market in that stupid city is set up such that a broker is necessary. Fuck it.

The biggest problem is that apts and brokers all need their shit up front. Well listen, I'll be making quite a bit of money soon enough but I won't have it when I show up. But if we find a place we want for a couple years, at near our max, where they will want a security deposit, thay could be $7k plus the fucking massive broker fee. I have a quick turnaround before my wife starts, her job isn't gonna advance her salary, and we can't accept money while working for judges. So we're in a bit of a pickle there and might have to live with her parents and commute about 45 min by train from Long Island for a month or two (ugh seriously shoot me).

I wish I could find a place that will give me a couple weeks but that seems unlikely. I'm rambling now and sure nobody cares.


If your budget is $3500 you could get a great place (great 2 be or AMAZING 1 br) in Hoboken right next to th Path. Be downtown in 10 min. But if your wife is going to be a PD, she might be required to be a NY resident (not sure about that though).


Anonymous User wrote:Anon because sharing enough to maybe out myself.

Tax savings for being in NJ are significant.


The PATH would be really convenient because it spits out close to our jobs on the Manhattan side. And the savings would definitely be significant. Do you have to pay any NY/NYC income taxes or just NJ, and how much lower would it be? If we're just renting, then other than lower rent, would we save a lot (e.g., taxes and other stuff I haven't thought of)?

One main problem is that my wife is from Long Island and her parents still live there. We lived in Brooklyn for a short time before we moved away to clerk, and it was convenient and nice being about 30-45 min drive from her parents. They could stop by to visit, bring us stuff... we stored/will store our car at their house, and they can just pop over and bring it to us easily, that sort of thing. So living in NJ would double that time (and even more when there's terrible city/tunnel traffic. So the location would be convenient for work but really inconvenient for that purpose.

If the cost savings are really really significant then we need to consider the option but it might be too hard for us.


You pay NJ state income and NYC tax, but I received nearly all of the NYC taxes I paid back on my return. If you're going to be spending north of $3k/mo. in rent in Hoboken, you'll more than likely be getting a parking spot with that. To compare, I pay $2,800/mo. for a 2 bed, 2 bath that includes a deeded parking spot (W/D too!). Granted, I'm not near the Path (I'm uptown), and the closer you get to the Path the more expensive the apartments, but not that much more. It's not a luxury condo by any means (no doorman), but it's definitely more than habitable.

I think having to have 2 people drive 30-45 min to drop a car off is pretty inconvenient for everyone involved, but to each his own. And if it were me, I wouldn't mind putting 2 rivers between me and my wife's parents. :roll:

I only play devil's advocate because I'm pretty familiar with the NYC real estate market and Williamsburg, Bed Stuy, Park Slope, and Bushwick are all nearing Manhattan-esq prices. I had a buddy who lived in Crown Heights, and that place is a dump. Plus, the commute isn't that great because the subway cars are PACKED in the mornings and it's not uncommon to have to let one go by in order to squeeze in the next.

Honestly, unless you're within walking distance or a 3-5 subway stop away from work, you're just going to have to pick your poison. I make the NJ to NY commute work for me, but I definitely wouldn't mind being closer to the office. That being said, I don't think my moving from Hoboken to Brooklyn would really change my commute and would increase my rent or decrease my standard of living.

So I've seen people say this a lot, but I've also seen several people claim that you're just not subject to NYC tax as a NJ resident and shouldn't be paying it in the first place.

I decided to do some research, and it seems a lot of people are probably not doing this as efficiently as they could be. You just have to submit this form to your employer, and there should be no NYC tax imposed on you at all. You'd start getting higher paychecks instead of that tax return the next year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.


You're right. You don't pay it and they shouldn't withhold it.

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:11 pm

I was fortunate enough to have a family member refinance my student loan debt interest free. With the new salary scale, assuming I have savings for the down payment, would it be wise to buy a condo with a mortgage payment around $3,000-$3250, assuming I would have spent that on rent and my loan payments are around $1500/month?

Figure if I'm going to pay the same amount, it can't hurt to have equity in some real estate.

Edit: Incoming 1st year making $180k.

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JenDarby

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby JenDarby » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:13 pm

Where are you proposing buying a condo with a mortgage payment of $3,000-$3,250?

Streeteasy.com currently lists exactly 43 condos for sale in Manhattan under 500k (though the closer you get to 500k you'll likely exceed that $3250 threshold), also considering you will likely need 20% down as well.
Last edited by JenDarby on Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:17 pm

JenDarby wrote:Where are you proposing buying a condo with a mortgage payment of $3,000-$3,250?


Sorry, I should have specified. I'm not in NYC. 2bed/2bath condos/townhomes can be had for $550k-$750k in my market, so I'd be looking on the lower end of that.

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby JenDarby » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
JenDarby wrote:Where are you proposing buying a condo with a mortgage payment of $3,000-$3,250?


Sorry, I should have specified. I'm not in NYC. 2bed/2bath condos/townhomes can be had for $550k-$750k in my market, so I'd be looking on the lower end of that.

Ah ok, well that changes everything then. This is a thread for incoming first years to compare obscene NYC rents.

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby kryptix » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:32 pm

WokeUpInACar wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just want to point out that a train ride commute is not the same as subway/driving. You can honestly bill a good portion of it if you have work. For example, morning emails get handled on the ride in etc.

I'm oblivious on this and have only looked into the PATH near JC and Hoboken, so I'm curious, where in Jersey can you live to have a short-ish train ride commute instead of the subway?


Take a look at the NJ transit schedules, just as a random lookup but anything Millburn and later on the Morris and Essex line is going to be "nice" neighborhoods (look at where your firm's partners in NJ live). For most of those towns at least 1 express train between 8:00 and 8:30 will get you to the office by 9:30 and if your efficient about it you can use that time. Also some of the top schools in the state/country. Not for all junior associates but its out there. Nightlife wouldn't be great but there'd be 2-3 bars near any of those train stations for hanging out if you like suburban living. Also not all junior associates are 25 :).

Similar on a few of the other lines such as NE Corridor.

If you want to be closer, places like Secaucus will have tons of trains and be close enough to the city that your extra uber costs will be paid for unless you go out every night...

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby jlk411 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm an incoming LA associate at a firm that matched, and was planning on spending around $2,500, but now comfortable with spending between $3,000-$3,200 with a monthly loan payment around $1,800.


can you elaborate on what was matched by your firm? thx

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby sublime » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 pm

jlk411 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm an incoming LA associate at a firm that matched, and was planning on spending around $2,500, but now comfortable with spending between $3,000-$3,200 with a monthly loan payment around $1,800.


can you elaborate on what was matched by your firm? thx


They mean they matched the new salary scale starting at $180k.

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby 1styearlateral » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:51 pm

kryptix wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just want to point out that a train ride commute is not the same as subway/driving. You can honestly bill a good portion of it if you have work. For example, morning emails get handled on the ride in etc.

I'm oblivious on this and have only looked into the PATH near JC and Hoboken, so I'm curious, where in Jersey can you live to have a short-ish train ride commute instead of the subway?


Take a look at the NJ transit schedules, just as a random lookup but anything Millburn and later on the Morris and Essex line is going to be "nice" neighborhoods (look at where your firm's partners in NJ live). For most of those towns at least 1 express train between 8:00 and 8:30 will get you to the office by 9:30 and if your efficient about it you can use that time. Also some of the top schools in the state/country. Not for all junior associates but its out there. Nightlife wouldn't be great but there'd be 2-3 bars near any of those train stations for hanging out if you like suburban living. Also not all junior associates are 25 :).

Similar on a few of the other lines such as NE Corridor.

If you want to be closer, places like Secaucus will have tons of trains and be close enough to the city that your extra uber costs will be paid for unless you go out every night...


LOL @ living in Secaucus. Have you ever been outside the train station? No amount of savings would compel me to live there.

To answer OP, the Path runs as far as Newark. Tbh, there's really nothing nice in between Newark and JC. Your best bet is Hoboken, JC, some parts of Weehawkin/Union City, or even Edgewater (was here a couple weeks ago and there's actually some pretty nice places on the water). There's a light rail that runs behind Hoboken, etc. to the train station but I've never taken it.

In my earlier days, when I interned my first summer, I took the regional rail from Bergen County to the city. It's not awful, but it's long. Personally, I'd rather live closer and cut my commute down to 15-30 min. rather than sit on a train... even if you can do work. IMO, even if you do work on the train, if you want to get home at a decent hour you'll more than likely have to leave before your boss, which I always try not to do. If you're young, I'd say bite the bullet and live in the city or somewhere close and live it up. You can always save your money later or wait until your parents die or something.

Anonymous User wrote:I was fortunate enough to have a family member refinance my student loan debt interest free. With the new salary scale, assuming I have savings for the down payment, would it be wise to buy a condo with a mortgage payment around $3,000-$3250, assuming I would have spent that on rent and my loan payments are around $1500/month?

Figure if I'm going to pay the same amount, it can't hurt to have equity in some real estate.

Edit: Incoming 1st year making $180k.


To answer this: If you're thinking of buying in NYC (and I know you're not cause you're in a different market), you're insane. Owning in NYC is really reserved for the mega wealthy (see property taxes, condo fees, etc.).

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:11 pm

hmm, I'm kind of happy my parents are broke so "waiting for my parents to die" is never a phrase I'll use.

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby bretby » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:27 pm

I can't say I'm surprised no one has mentioned Queens - transplants seem to think only Manhattan below 125th St, some parts of Brooklyn, and Jersey exist - but you can get nice places in Queens that are very convenient to Midtown for significantly less than the other places mentioned (except maybe suburban Jersey).

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:56 pm

My firm is in midtown, and I'm also trying to live in Jersey (significant rent/tax savings, much needed to pay off loans).

Any insight on living in Jersey near Exchange Place/Newport/Journal Square and taking the PATH --> WTC --> 4/5 Express to Grand Central?

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My firm is in midtown, and I'm also trying to live in Jersey (significant rent/tax savings, much needed to pay off loans).

Any insight on living in Jersey near Exchange Place/Newport/Journal Square and taking the PATH --> WTC --> 4/5 Express to Grand Central?

This is pretty much what I'm planning on at this point also, except likely living around the Grove Street station. The new transportation hub at WTC should make it easier to get from the PATH to the 4/5. I Haven't done it personally, but I'm expecting it'll be doable, certainly nowhere near ideal though. My wife will be working downtown, so it's a decent compromise.

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Re: How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My firm is in midtown, and I'm also trying to live in Jersey (significant rent/tax savings, much needed to pay off loans).

Any insight on living in Jersey near Exchange Place/Newport/Journal Square and taking the PATH --> WTC --> 4/5 Express to Grand Central?

This is pretty much what I'm planning on at this point also, except likely living around the Grove Street station. The new transportation hub at WTC should make it easier to get from the PATH to the 4/5. I Haven't done it personally, but I'm expecting it'll be doable, certainly nowhere near ideal though. My wife will be working downtown, so it's a decent compromise.


I moved from Astoria to suburban jersey after the kids and it's a noticeable increase on every check for pay while the commute got a bit longer (10-15 min longer) having a seat on the train vs standing on the subway does make mornings more bearable. With little kids on most days people understand you leaving then logging back in unless there's a pressing deadline.

Going out requires a designated driver or uber budget though so that's an issue, but honestly needing a sitter etc. makes it very rare.



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