1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

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1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:53 am

First, some info about me:
My GPA is 3.69, so high end of top 1/3 (because top 1/4 was 3.71).
At WUSTL the mandatory mean is 3.55
My transcript is all As and A-s and I received a total of 3 Cali's.

I decided not to do law review (sheer laziness, tbh), and don't have any outstanding softs to speak of either.
Kjd, so not much work experience, female, and not URM.
Strong ties to DC (live in NOVA)

A couple of questions:
What are my chances of landing biglaw in DC? Would I have a better chance w/ NY firms?
Also, what are some things I can do this summer to maximize my chances? Is mass-mailing recommended?

I'd appreciate any/all advice. Thanks in advance! :)

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Pro Brono » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:First, some info about me:
My GPA is 3.69, so high end of top 1/3 (because top 1/4 was 3.71).
At WUSTL the mandatory mean is 3.55
My transcript is all As and A-s and I received a total of 3 Cali's.

I decided not to do law review (sheer laziness, tbh), and don't have any outstanding softs to speak of either.
Kjd, so not much work experience, female, and not URM.
Strong ties to DC (live in NOVA)

A couple of questions:
What are my chances of landing biglaw in DC? Would I have a better chance w/ NY firms?
Also, what are some things I can do this summer to maximize my chances? Is mass-mailing recommended?

I'd appreciate any/all advice. Thanks in advance! :)

How are you only top third with three CALIs? Also, not doing LR/journal was stupid. Be ready to have an answer about why you didn't that isn't sheer laziness.

You'll have a tough time landing biglaw in DC or NY through OCI/off-campus programs. If you have any connections, get in touch with them over the summer to ask for advice about the legal market in their city without asking them for a job. Mass mail early (right after July 4).

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby PeanutsNJam » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:00 pm

We had one professor who gave a super low Cali, but gave it to like 12 people. You can also Cali our legal research class which is 1 credit, and our legal writing classes which are 2 credits. It's certainly possible.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby acr » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:03 pm

Pro Brono wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First, some info about me:
My GPA is 3.69, so high end of top 1/3 (because top 1/4 was 3.71).
At WUSTL the mandatory mean is 3.55
My transcript is all As and A-s and I received a total of 3 Cali's.

I decided not to do law review (sheer laziness, tbh), and don't have any outstanding softs to speak of either.
Kjd, so not much work experience, female, and not URM.
Strong ties to DC (live in NOVA)

A couple of questions:
What are my chances of landing biglaw in DC? Would I have a better chance w/ NY firms?
Also, what are some things I can do this summer to maximize my chances? Is mass-mailing recommended?

I'd appreciate any/all advice. Thanks in advance! :)

How are you only top third with three CALIs? Also, not doing LR/journal was stupid. Be ready to have an answer about why you didn't that isn't sheer laziness.

You'll have a tough time landing biglaw in DC or NY through OCI/off-campus programs. If you have any connections, get in touch with them over the summer to ask for advice about the legal market in their city without asking them for a job. Mass mail early (right after July 4).


Probably CALI's legal writing both semesters and legal research. Anyway, OP, I wouldn't expect DC. I just don't think the grades are high enough for that. But I'm in pretty much the exact same boat as you (at WUSTL) with a slightly lower GPA, so if you want to talk more, feel free to PM, i feel like I've gotten pretty good advice from upperclassmen so far. As the previous poster said, journal would have been helpful and I would try to come up with something convincing for why you didn't do it. Mass mail like crazy, reach out to contacts, etc.
Last edited by acr on Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:03 pm

3.71 is top 1/4, way to game the GPA game WUSTL

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:First, some info about me:
My GPA is 3.69, so high end of top 1/3 (because top 1/4 was 3.71).
At WUSTL the mandatory mean is 3.55
My transcript is all As and A-s and I received a total of 3 Cali's.

I decided not to do law review (sheer laziness, tbh), and don't have any outstanding softs to speak of either.
Kjd, so not much work experience, female, and not URM.
Strong ties to DC (live in NOVA)

A couple of questions:
What are my chances of landing biglaw in DC? Would I have a better chance w/ NY firms?
Also, what are some things I can do this summer to maximize my chances? Is mass-mailing recommended?

I'd appreciate any/all advice. Thanks in advance! :)


Mass mail. Do diversity programs. Drop your ranking entirely when mailing firms that don't recruit at wustl.

3 calis with no rank and a 3.69, people unfamiliar with wustls grades will probably look at you much more favorably than someone top third at wustl.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:40 pm

Another note (from a WashU grad here---sidenote why do people on forums always say WUSTL when we never ever call it that IRL?) is that WashU has A+ grades for the top end of classes. So As and A-s alone plus 3 weak CALIs would translate to 1/3 but it still looked weird to me too.

Also, who decides not to do write-on yet wants to do biglaw in DC/NY? OP, if you're that lazy or unconfident, biglaw is not for you, regardless of whether it's possible or not.

If you're set on it, sign up for trial team and tell interviewers you didn't do journal because trial team at WashU is such a time suck and extremely grueling (which are both true and it's actually hard to juggle both). But if you're lazy you don't want to do trial team. You'll end up hating yourself for thinking journal was too much work. But if you want to actually prove you're willing to work hard, you gotta grow a pair (of tits I guess) and just do it.

Otherwise you gotta do some other activity quick or absolutely destroy it 2L. But I'd look into STL firms or midlaw.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby PeanutsNJam » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Yeah top 1/3 who want biglaw are probably the people who should write-on the most since you need as many of those bonus pts as possible.

Wustl doesn't do too bad with transferring. You might snag gulc/NU, and would probably fare better at their OCI.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby barkschool » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:42 pm

Transfer

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby sublime » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:56 pm

It's a rough situation, especially without journal.

What are you doing this summer?

Are you attractive, are you personable, and do you interview well?

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:15 pm

ETA: This is OP

Thanks to all who answered!!

So what's keeping me from transferring is that I'm getting full tuition at WashU, and I currently have no debt...I'm reluctant for that to change.

I think I interview well and I'm passably attractive (no weight/skin problems). Tall for an asian.
Last semester I got a callback from a phone interview w/ a V50 firm in DC and though I didn't get a summer associate position, I did manage to score a guarantee callback for my 2L summer. (don't know if this is a good thing or just eh haha)
I've actually tried contacting the people I interviewed with some time back (as was suggested in the email I got offering me a callback for next summer) but I haven't heard back.

I really don't have an excuse for LR...I guess I banked on the fact that I Cali'ed legal writing both semesters and figured I wouldn't need it (I assumed the purpose of law review was to inform employers you're a good writer.) Obviously, I was mistaken.

In regards to connections, my alumni mentor is a senior partner at one of the top 5 DC firms (according to Vault), and I'm hoping to at least get an interview there.

Finally, I'm sure there's already a thread about this, but can someone explain how the mass mailing process would work? Or could someone direct me to the thread that does?

Again, thank you to all who gave me advice!

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:ETA: This is OP

Thanks to all who answered!!

So what's keeping me from transferring is that I'm getting full tuition at WashU, and I currently have no debt...I'm reluctant for that to change.

I think I interview well and I'm passably attractive (no weight/skin problems). Tall for an asian.
Last semester I got a callback from a phone interview w/ a V50 firm in DC and though I didn't get a summer associate position, I did manage to score a guarantee callback for my 2L summer. (don't know if this is a good thing or just eh haha)
I've actually tried contacting the people I interviewed with some time back (as was suggested in the email I got offering me a callback for next summer) but I haven't heard back.

I really don't have an excuse for LR...I guess I banked on the fact that I Cali'ed legal writing both semesters and figured I wouldn't need it (I assumed the purpose of law review was to inform employers you're a good writer.) Obviously, I was mistaken.

In regards to connections, my alumni mentor is a senior partner at one of the top 5 DC firms (according to Vault), and I'm hoping to at least get an interview there.

Finally, I'm sure there's already a thread about this, but can someone explain how the mass mailing process would work? Or could someone direct me to the thread that does?

Again, thank you to all who gave me advice!


Same anon washu grad from above:

Seems like you're banking on a lot of things that could happen but are not certainties. Even if you have connections, they're not gonna throw you a bone and offer you if it's clear you're not working hard. If you have a connection and you have their minimum grade cutoff maybe they'll interview you. If you're way below their target candidate, they're not gonna help you out. And mass mailing is very important and something you need to do ASAP. There's a thread about it on the forum so go there instead of waiting here for advice. [Edit: seems the sticky is gone, but search for it. That will be better than advice people can give on this thread]. But its not the only thing youre gonna have to do---you gotta make up ground as well.

I really think if you want to do biglaw you have to replace journal with a similar activity, and I think moot court (not just Wiley Rutledge) or trial team are your options there. And trial team is the better, more prestigious (at WashU), more difficult option. I think you're underestimating what being on a publication is, and the importance of it in hiring when you're not in the tippy top of the class. So you need a replacement.

Not bitter but they started raising the amount of scholarships they give out dramatically just after I started there. Don't take that full ride for granted. If you really want to make it to a big firm you have to work your ass off from here on out. Do trial team. That's my advice.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby acr » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:ETA: This is OP

Thanks to all who answered!!

So what's keeping me from transferring is that I'm getting full tuition at WashU, and I currently have no debt...I'm reluctant for that to change.

I think I interview well and I'm passably attractive (no weight/skin problems). Tall for an asian.
Last semester I got a callback from a phone interview w/ a V50 firm in DC and though I didn't get a summer associate position, I did manage to score a guarantee callback for my 2L summer. (don't know if this is a good thing or just eh haha)
I've actually tried contacting the people I interviewed with some time back (as was suggested in the email I got offering me a callback for next summer) but I haven't heard back.

I really don't have an excuse for LR...I guess I banked on the fact that I Cali'ed legal writing both semesters and figured I wouldn't need it (I assumed the purpose of law review was to inform employers you're a good writer.) Obviously, I was mistaken.

In regards to connections, my alumni mentor is a senior partner at one of the top 5 DC firms (according to Vault), and I'm hoping to at least get an interview there.

Finally, I'm sure there's already a thread about this, but can someone explain how the mass mailing process would work? Or could someone direct me to the thread that does?

Again, thank you to all who gave me advice!


Same anon washu grad from above:

Seems like you're banking on a lot of things that could happen but are not certainties. Even if you have connections, they're not gonna throw you a bone and offer you if it's clear you're not working hard. If you have a connection and you have their minimum grade cutoff maybe they'll interview you. If you're way below their target candidate, they're not gonna help you out. And mass mailing is very important and something you need to do ASAP. There's a thread about it on the forum so go there instead of waiting here for advice. [Edit: seems the sticky is gone, but search for it. That will be better than advice people can give on this thread]. But its not the only thing youre gonna have to do---you gotta make up ground as well.

I really think if you want to do biglaw you have to replace journal with a similar activity, and I think moot court (not just Wiley Rutledge) or trial team are your options there. And trial team is the better, more prestigious (at WashU), more difficult option. I think you're underestimating what being on a publication is, and the importance of it in hiring when you're not in the tippy top of the class. So you need a replacement.

Not bitter but they started raising the amount of scholarships they give out dramatically just after I started there. Don't take that full ride for granted. If you really want to make it to a big firm you have to work your ass off from here on out. Do trial team. That's my advice.


Pretty sure the deadline for trial team has already passed? Weren't tryouts like the week after write on?

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:51 pm

acr wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:ETA: This is OP

Thanks to all who answered!!

So what's keeping me from transferring is that I'm getting full tuition at WashU, and I currently have no debt...I'm reluctant for that to change.

I think I interview well and I'm passably attractive (no weight/skin problems). Tall for an asian.
Last semester I got a callback from a phone interview w/ a V50 firm in DC and though I didn't get a summer associate position, I did manage to score a guarantee callback for my 2L summer. (don't know if this is a good thing or just eh haha)
I've actually tried contacting the people I interviewed with some time back (as was suggested in the email I got offering me a callback for next summer) but I haven't heard back.

I really don't have an excuse for LR...I guess I banked on the fact that I Cali'ed legal writing both semesters and figured I wouldn't need it (I assumed the purpose of law review was to inform employers you're a good writer.) Obviously, I was mistaken.

In regards to connections, my alumni mentor is a senior partner at one of the top 5 DC firms (according to Vault), and I'm hoping to at least get an interview there.

Finally, I'm sure there's already a thread about this, but can someone explain how the mass mailing process would work? Or could someone direct me to the thread that does?

Again, thank you to all who gave me advice!


Same anon washu grad from above:

Seems like you're banking on a lot of things that could happen but are not certainties. Even if you have connections, they're not gonna throw you a bone and offer you if it's clear you're not working hard. If you have a connection and you have their minimum grade cutoff maybe they'll interview you. If you're way below their target candidate, they're not gonna help you out. And mass mailing is very important and something you need to do ASAP. There's a thread about it on the forum so go there instead of waiting here for advice. [Edit: seems the sticky is gone, but search for it. That will be better than advice people can give on this thread]. But its not the only thing youre gonna have to do---you gotta make up ground as well.

I really think if you want to do biglaw you have to replace journal with a similar activity, and I think moot court (not just Wiley Rutledge) or trial team are your options there. And trial team is the better, more prestigious (at WashU), more difficult option. I think you're underestimating what being on a publication is, and the importance of it in hiring when you're not in the tippy top of the class. So you need a replacement.

Not bitter but they started raising the amount of scholarships they give out dramatically just after I started there. Don't take that full ride for granted. If you really want to make it to a big firm you have to work your ass off from here on out. Do trial team. That's my advice.


Pretty sure the deadline for trial team has already passed? Weren't tryouts like the week after write on?


That could be true. I dunno because I did Law Review. Do they have tryouts by semester? You're probably right. I bet it'd be easier to beg for a tryout than to beg for a publication spot having skipped write-on. Okay, well maybe one of the moot court teams has later tryouts. I really don't remember the timeline for things. Point is, she's gotta try to find a replacement if possible.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Londonbear » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:52 pm

Landing BL in DC is going to be tough, even with your connections. DC is a little bit odd in the sense that they have many applicants that have the grades, the personality/fit, AND the connections. So if you only have one or two of those, you're still behind. NY would be easier and obviously you don't need to have any connects. What are you doing this summer? That may help when you're doing interviews. Maybe you could reach out to alumni in the firms you're interested in?

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby sublime » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:57 pm

Yea, it's not hopeless but it will be uphill.

FOr resources on massmailing/general advice, check out these threads:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=120382


viewtopic.php?f=23&t=215200


Good luck.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I really don't have an excuse for LR...I guess I banked on the fact that I Cali'ed legal writing both semesters and figured I wouldn't need it (I assumed the purpose of law review was to inform employers you're a good writer.) Obviously, I was mistaken.


Law Review more tells them that you can write, have a work ethic, are willing to do tedious bullshit, and know how to cite. Plus, a lot of alumni biglaw interviewers from non-t14s were on the school's Law Review so that's a connection you share with them.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby chingwoo » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:First, some info about me:
My GPA is 3.69, so high end of top 1/3 (because top 1/4 was 3.71).
At WUSTL the mandatory mean is 3.55
My transcript is all As and A-s and I received a total of 3 Cali's.

I decided not to do law review (sheer laziness, tbh), and don't have any outstanding softs to speak of either.
Kjd, so not much work experience, female, and not URM.
Strong ties to DC (live in NOVA)

A couple of questions:
What are my chances of landing biglaw in DC? Would I have a better chance w/ NY firms?
Also, what are some things I can do this summer to maximize my chances? Is mass-mailing recommended?

I'd appreciate any/all advice. Thanks in advance! :)

PM me.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby lolwat » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:19 pm

Law Review more tells them that you can write, have a work ethic, are willing to do tedious bullshit, and know how to cite. Plus, a lot of alumni biglaw interviewers from non-t14s were on the school's Law Review so that's a connection you share with them.


LR doesn't tell me anything about writing, work ethic, or ability to cite. It does tell me the person was in the top 10% of their class at the end of 1L year (unless the grade-on policy changed since I graduated)... which also makes LR not that great of an indication of anything that grades already wouldn't tell me. Or, the person is one of the very few who managed to write-on after everyone who graded-on got their spots on LR.

On the other hand, NOT being on LR or any other journal tells me a lot.

Anyway, on paper, I suspect top 1/3 and lack of LR are going to make it difficult for you to get biglaw in DC. Use your connections as much as possible and massmail as much as possible. But I would start looking at other options. For its ranking and general prestige as a school, WashU isn't incredible at placing people in biglaw in big markets to begin with and you didn't make it any easier for yourself. Good luck.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby sublime » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:24 pm

lolwat wrote:
Law Review more tells them that you can write, have a work ethic, are willing to do tedious bullshit, and know how to cite. Plus, a lot of alumni biglaw interviewers from non-t14s were on the school's Law Review so that's a connection you share with them.


LR doesn't tell me anything about writing, work ethic, or ability to cite. It does tell me the person was in the top 10% of their class at the end of 1L year (unless the grade-on policy changed since I graduated)... which also makes LR not that great of an indication of anything that grades already wouldn't tell me. Or, the person is one of the very few who managed to write-on after everyone who graded-on got their spots on LR.

On the other hand, NOT being on LR or any other journal tells me a lot.

Anyway, on paper, I suspect top 1/3 and lack of LR are going to make it difficult for you to get biglaw in DC. Use your connections as much as possible and massmail as much as possible. But I would start looking at other options. For its ranking and general prestige as a school, WashU isn't incredible at placing people in biglaw in big markets to begin with and you didn't make it any easier for yourself. Good luck.


Only top 5% grade on now fwiw.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:31 pm

lolwat wrote:
Law Review more tells them that you can write, have a work ethic, are willing to do tedious bullshit, and know how to cite. Plus, a lot of alumni biglaw interviewers from non-t14s were on the school's Law Review so that's a connection you share with them.


LR doesn't tell me anything about writing, work ethic, or ability to cite. It does tell me the person was in the top 10% of their class at the end of 1L year (unless the grade-on policy changed since I graduated)... which also makes LR not that great of an indication of anything that grades already wouldn't tell me. Or, the person is one of the very few who managed to write-on after everyone who graded-on got their spots on LR.

On the other hand, NOT being on LR or any other journal tells me a lot.

Anyway, on paper, I suspect top 1/3 and lack of LR are going to make it difficult for you to get biglaw in DC. Use your connections as much as possible and massmail as much as possible. But I would start looking at other options. For its ranking and general prestige as a school, WashU isn't incredible at placing people in biglaw in big markets to begin with and you didn't make it any easier for yourself. Good luck.


From what I've been told, it's actually only the top 5% now. I don't know why, but I guess they wanted more people to actually write on rather than skate on with their grades. Regardless, I agree completely with your second part. LR doesn't affirmatively say anything (unless it's combined with e-board or publication of your note which you won't know until late in 2L). Many people can and do get biglaw or another good job on Journal/Global/JRev, and LR isn't the end-all. But they will probably read into the lack of any publication if you don't have a reason for it.

Maybe OP should still try to write a note and send it to publications to try to get it published. If that somehow succeeded, that could look good. But then you don't have the reward of a resume boost for all that bitchwork. Maybe OP can beg Journal/Global/JRev (actually I guess she'd need all 4, because grading is anonymous) to let her do transfer write-on. Very unlikely.

Edit: scooped

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby Pro Brono » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:00 am

.
Last edited by Pro Brono on Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby imalreadyamember? » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:08 am

Pro Brono wrote:
sublime wrote:
lolwat wrote:LR doesn't tell me anything about writing, work ethic, or ability to cite. It does tell me the person was in the top 10% of their class at the end of 1L year (unless the grade-on policy changed since I graduated)... which also makes LR not that great of an indication of anything that grades already wouldn't tell me. Or, the person is one of the very few who managed to write-on after everyone who graded-on got their spots on LR.


Only top 5% grade on now fwiw.

This, and also even when it was top 10%, that only accounted for about 20-25 (depending on class size) of the ~42-45 people that LR takes every year, so there are/were many more people who write-on. And a handful of the people who graded on will transfer out anyway, so it ends up being mostly people who wrote on.

I agree that you should immediately contact the secondary journals and ask if there's an alternative way you can get on. The 1L class is small and had surprisingly low participation in write-on, so journals might be open to this. Can't hurt to ask.


Somebody seriously failed at their job if the 1Ls didn't realize how important write-on is in the law school experience. I mean sure it's stupid that it matters but I don't regret the work I put into my publication and especially not the one week of write-on which was NOT THAT BAD, GUYS. Did they not have an info meeting? In my year it was essentially mandatory to do write-on and almost nobody didn't write on to one of the four. It's crazy to me that so few people would do it.

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby acr » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:13 am

What happens when some of the people that Law Review selects inevitably transfer out? How do they fill the vacant positions? Like, if I accept a position with a different journal, will Law Review then contact me and give me the option to join if positions subsequently open up? I don't really understand how that would work

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Re: 1L Summer Tips: Top 1/3 at WUSTL

Postby sublime » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:18 am

acr wrote:What happens when some of the people that Law Review selects inevitably transfer out? How do they fill the vacant positions? Like, if I accept a position with a different journal, will Law Review then contact me and give me the option to join if positions subsequently open up? I don't really understand how that would work


Unless it changed, you get one offer from one journal which you can take or leave, but that's it. I doubt it is different now.

The extra slots are filled with transfer write on, if at all.



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