Bringing in a client Forum

[Anonymous User]

I don't know how much the client will bring in per se... I'll give a little more context though. It's an old employer of mine that would most likely be bringing in a lot of employment, contract, business transactional work, etc. And they would be looking for a firm for long term legal needs. As for the firm itself, I'm not sure how much this plays into it, but my experience so far has been unlike others. From what I've gathered from friends of mine at other firms, I've done substantially more than they hope to. My firm has allowed me to argue in court, lots of client contact, and take on entire case files. I'm taking this as a sign that they trust me more, and that factors into me believing that they wouldn't take me bringing in a business client poorly.

Haha good luck bro. "Take on entire case file" is my favorite part of this post. Aren't you there for 10 weeks? Not sure what meaningful impact you are going to have on the "entire case file" in ten weeks. Also, what firm -- representing paying businesses/individuals -- lets a summer "argue in court?" You sure it wasn't a status call or a meaningless hearing to kick a date down the line? If it was, that isn't "arguing in court"

At least one Boston firm let a summer cross examine a witness, and a 1L no less. This is just an excerpt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvrHS7KdZ64

Don't think OP is at HLS. Big difference.

[Magic Hat]

I don't know how much the client will bring in per se... I'll give a little more context though. It's an old employer of mine that would most likely be bringing in a lot of employment, contract, business transactional work, etc. And they would be looking for a firm for long term legal needs. As for the firm itself, I'm not sure how much this plays into it, but my experience so far has been unlike others. From what I've gathered from friends of mine at other firms, I've done substantially more than they hope to. My firm has allowed me to argue in court, lots of client contact, and take on entire case files. I'm taking this as a sign that they trust me more, and that factors into me believing that they wouldn't take me bringing in a business client poorly.

Haha good luck bro. "Take on entire case file" is my favorite part of this post. Aren't you there for 10 weeks? Not sure what meaningful impact you are going to have on the "entire case file" in ten weeks. Also, what firm -- representing paying businesses/individuals -- lets a summer "argue in court?" You sure it wasn't a status call or a meaningless hearing to kick a date down the line? If it was, that isn't "arguing in court"

At least one Boston firm let a summer cross examine a witness, and a 1L no less. This is just an excerpt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvrHS7KdZ64

Don't think OP is at HLS. Big difference.

Why?

[rpupkin]

read some of these posts; many are nonsense.

law firms like money. if there's a real chance you could bring a client in, they'd be thrilled to hear about it. the way you do this is by approaching one of the partners you have a good relationship and asking them what to do in your situation. some firms offer associate referral fees, which could get complicated if you're a summer.

a big part of every partner's job is to bring business in, so any of them would be happy to talk about this, and they'd be happy to know you're thinking about bringing in business this far in advance. just be inquisitive about it and not a pissant and you'll be fine.

I think there's some truth in this post. If handled the right way, a delicate conversation with a partner mentor about a potential client could be viewed positively. But, Johndi, I'm not sure that your right that OP is fine so long as he's not a pissant. Even if the OP is being pleasant, there's a not insignificant chance that he will come off as naive, confused, or lacking in judgment. If I had to peg the upside/downside for a summer associate doing something like this, I'd say it's something like 15/85. That's why I think the prevailing advice in this thread is correct.

[star fox]

I don't know how much the client will bring in per se... I'll give a little more context though. It's an old employer of mine that would most likely be bringing in a lot of employment, contract, business transactional work, etc. And they would be looking for a firm for long term legal needs. As for the firm itself, I'm not sure how much this plays into it, but my experience so far has been unlike others. From what I've gathered from friends of mine at other firms, I've done substantially more than they hope to. My firm has allowed me to argue in court, lots of client contact, and take on entire case files. I'm taking this as a sign that they trust me more, and that factors into me believing that they wouldn't take me bringing in a business client poorly.

Haha good luck bro. "Take on entire case file" is my favorite part of this post. Aren't you there for 10 weeks? Not sure what meaningful impact you are going to have on the "entire case file" in ten weeks. Also, what firm -- representing paying businesses/individuals -- lets a summer "argue in court?" You sure it wasn't a status call or a meaningless hearing to kick a date down the line? If it was, that isn't "arguing in court"

At least one Boston firm let a summer cross examine a witness, and a 1L no less. This is just an excerpt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvrHS7KdZ64

Don't think OP is at HLS. Big difference.

Why?

It's actually pretty common at most firms from what I hear for Partners to ask Summer Associates from Harvard for substantive lawyering/general life advice.

[20160810]

Yeah when one of our summers found out I was getting married and started giving me sua sponte oral sex tips for the wedding night I was a little put off, but then I found out he went to Harvard and starting taking notes. Good thing too: apparently the clitoris is located in the butthole.

[stannis]

Yeah when one of our summers found out I was getting married and started giving me sua sponte oral sex tips for the wedding night I was a little put off, but then I found out he went to Harvard and starting taking notes. Good thing too: apparently the clitoris is located in the butthole.

Thank you for this. Makes me feel better about the minor faux pas I've commit on a daily basis at my SA.

[HonestAdvice]

Yeah when one of our summers found out I was getting married and started giving me sua sponte oral sex tips for the wedding night I was a little put off, but then I found out he went to Harvard and starting taking notes. Good thing too: apparently the clitoris is located in the butthole.

I'm not saying you're a liar, but I feel like this story may not be be true. For one, Harvard students don't give oral. They just say "There's no place like Harvard" 3 times, and everyone on the floor climaxes. Theoretically, Harvard summers are great, but the reality is I have loans and my dry cleaning bills have gone through the roof.

[imalreadyamember?]

This story reeks of bullshit, but even if it's true, you're clearly out of your depth here. "Would that be bad?" Are you serious?

But as others have said above, there is just too much that could go wrong. You don't know how the company is as a legal client. But you're also clearly in a smaller place that might have different rules. Don't make any promises and just talk to somebody who actually knows the situation, i.e. not us assholes.

[20160810]

This story reeks of bullshit, but even if it's true, you're clearly out of your depth here. "Would that be bad?" Are you serious?

But as others have said above, there is just too much that could go wrong. You don't know how the company is as a legal client. But you're also clearly in a smaller place that might have different rules. Don't make any promises and just talk to somebody who actually knows the situation, i.e. not us assholes.

I don't think the story is bullshit but I think the client is probably like his uncle's small plumbing supply business that needs a lease reviewed

[Anonymous User]

This story reeks of bullshit, but even if it's true, you're clearly out of your depth here. "Would that be bad?" Are you serious?

But as others have said above, there is just too much that could go wrong. You don't know how the company is as a legal client. But you're also clearly in a smaller place that might have different rules. Don't make any promises and just talk to somebody who actually knows the situation, i.e. not us assholes.

I don't think the story is bullshit but I think the client is probably like his uncle's small plumbing supply business that needs a lease reviewed

Surprisingly not my uncle's company, actually my former employer which is a fairly large regional security company

[imalreadyamember?]

This story reeks of bullshit, but even if it's true, you're clearly out of your depth here. "Would that be bad?" Are you serious?

But as others have said above, there is just too much that could go wrong. You don't know how the company is as a legal client. But you're also clearly in a smaller place that might have different rules. Don't make any promises and just talk to somebody who actually knows the situation, i.e. not us assholes.

I don't think the story is bullshit but I think the client is probably like his uncle's small plumbing supply business that needs a lease reviewed

Surprisingly not my uncle's company, actually my former employer which is a fairly large regional security company

And what makes you confident that they would actually come to the firm? It's just a very complex process and idk if it's worth the risk of losing an offer. How many lawyers at the firm? Is that the only office? How many summers and how long are you there? Who do you know closely at the client/company?

[20160810]

This story reeks of bullshit, but even if it's true, you're clearly out of your depth here. "Would that be bad?" Are you serious?

But as others have said above, there is just too much that could go wrong. You don't know how the company is as a legal client. But you're also clearly in a smaller place that might have different rules. Don't make any promises and just talk to somebody who actually knows the situation, i.e. not us assholes.

I don't think the story is bullshit but I think the client is probably like his uncle's small plumbing supply business that needs a lease reviewed

Surprisingly not my uncle's company, actually my former employer which is a fairly large regional security company

This might be a good client, but it also might not. For better or worse, once you bring them in, their stink is all over you. If they are a pain in the ass to deal with during discovery (many, if not most, businesses are), or if they whine about their bills, or if they call too often, or if they do any of the million other things whereby clients drive lawyers nuts, it's going to redound to your detriment. And that's if you actually land them as a client. This is just too big of an X factor to deal with during an audition summer when you aren't even remotely expected to be generating business for the firm.

If this is a really solid company, keep your ties with them, and land them once you're a full-time attorney.

[Anonymous User]

A while back I spoke with someone high up in the company, I ran into him by chance, and he kept saying he can't wait for me to finish up school so I can do work for them. That makes me think I should be able to at least get him talking with someone at the firm I'm with now. Right now there's about 30 lawyers, 3 offices and two summers (including myself). I'm here until school starts again and I might be able to stay on part-time through the semester. I was also here throughout the past semester as well. As for who I know at the company, just about everyone that's important. Operation Managers, Field Reps, Vice President, Owner, ect.

[20160810]

It sounds like you're pretty bent on ignoring the advice you asked for, so do your thing.

[Anonymous User]

It sounds like you're pretty bent on ignoring the advice you asked for, so do your thing.

Someone asked a question, so I answered it lol

[pancakes3]

lol is right.

[ClubberLang]

OP- can you tell us about arguing in court as an SA? I'm genuinely curious. Are you sworn in under some student practice act? What type of hearing did you do? Are the clients aware you are handling their entire files?

[Anonymous User]

OP- can you tell us about arguing in court as an SA? I'm genuinely curious. Are you sworn in under some student practice act? What type of hearing did you do? Are the clients aware you are handling their entire files?

Honestly, it was nerve-racking as all hell. It was defending a motion to dismiss an unfair trade practices claim, and the supervising attorneys knew that I knew the case and the law behind it because they previously gave me the assignment to draft the motion itself. But it was fun and definitely a hell of a resume booster. If I do 3L OCI then it gave me an experience that I can guarantee no one else has. Also, it was under a student practice rule, and by law I had to get consent from the client. The client themselves have been a long-standing client so they trust the firm and they signed the consent form pretty easily (plus it wasn’t a huge claim, only about 20-30k).

[B0bL0blaw]

defending a motion to dismiss an unfair trade practices claim

this is not a thing. do you mean opposing a motion to dismiss? or arguing the motion to dismiss?

and the supervising attorneys knew that I knew the case and the law behind it because they previously gave me the assignment to draft the motion itself.

Ok, so you wrote the motion to dismiss. When did your SA program start? Typically they start in late May. So, you want us to believe that in about 2 weeks time, you "knew the case and the law behind it," drafted a motion to dismiss, and argued that motion in open court? How does that even make sense? What the hell kind of briefing schedule was this? If you wrote the motion to dismiss, and the other side then opposed, even ignoring a reply brief that literally does not allow time for oral arguments on such a short schedule. I don't think anyone who knows anything about law practice believes this terrible flame.

[Anonymous User]

defending a motion to dismiss an unfair trade practices claim

this is not a thing. do you mean opposing a motion to dismiss?

and the supervising attorneys knew that I knew the case and the law behind it because they previously gave me the assignment to draft the motion itself.

When did your SA program start? Typically they start in late May. So, you want us to believe that in about 2 weeks time, you "knew the case and the law behind it," drafted a motion to dismiss, and argued that motion in open court? How does that even make sense? What the hell kind of briefing schedule was this? I don't think anyone who knows anything about law practice believes this terrible flame.

To your first point, sorry I'm typing quickly because I'm in the office and need to make it at least look like I'm being productive. The client was the defendant. Second, as I said earlier I've been with the firm this entire past semester working part-time. When the summer came along, they hired me full-time as a SA. But I drafted the motion in early April.

[imalreadyamember?]

A while back I spoke with someone high up in the company, I ran into him by chance, and he kept saying he can't wait for me to finish up school so I can do work for them. That makes me think I should be able to at least get him talking with someone at the firm I'm with now. Right now there's about 30 lawyers, 3 offices and two summers (including myself). I'm here until school starts again and I might be able to stay on part-time through the semester. I was also here throughout the past semester as well. As for who I know at the company, just about everyone that's important. Operation Managers, Field Reps, Vice President, Owner, ect.

The above bolded section is not enough to risk sticking your neck out. Even if the owner himself (or whoever is in charge of deciding what firm they use) said specifically that he would go with the firm, it might still be a better idea to wait. As it is, this is not enough confidence in the outcome. In fact it sounds like the company might be disappointed you didn't choose to work for them?

Also you just mentioned that you might do OCI. So you're not even sure you want to work at this firm after you graduate, but you're willing to bring them basically free business? Then down the road you'll be kicking yourself for not keeping the connection and bringing them to your new firm.

Also I and my clinic-mates argued things during law school in essentially juvenile criminal cases, which is obviously higher stakes than 20-30k. Not sure why that's the thing people are struggling with here. Sure biglaw isn't gonna have that but it's not abnormal.

[reasonable_man]

Op:

I'm a senior associate at a mid-sized firm with over 100 attorneys. I'm pretty good at generating business. I also had early SA experience that was substantive and at my first firm I was considered a "rising star" very early in my career. It was a less structured lower tier firm of about 75 attorneys. It can be easy to stand out in that sort of environment (in a positive way).

I left that firm for a small boutique firm, which subsequently morphed into the larger mid-sized firm I'm at now. My early efforts at bringing in clients were often false starts. And something that you are not ready to deal with right now is the real possibility that this client will not pan out the right way. They may be slow payers. They may haggle over the bill to the point that no one wants to touch their work. They may not actually be ready to send you business. Their actual legal needs may be very different than what you perceive. There are untold pitfalls in business generation that you're simply not ready to handle as a law student (nor are you situated to actually manage the business). You're much better off keeping up your contacts with the company and then trying to do this in a year or two, after you graduate, with the help of a partner.

I recently brought in a client that needed work in several areas in which I was not even conversant, never mind fluent. I put together a team of the right partners, set up the meeting and we killed it. Client signed the retainer the next day. They gave me 100% origination credit for the client and all subsequent work that comes out of it. My years of experience gave me the confidence to know that I couldn't land this company (a $100 Million a year construction group) on my own, but that I could do it with help.

Do what you want - you seem pretty set on making this work now. But honestly, I would bet you have about a 20% chance of this ending positively for you.

[20160810]

If I do 3L OCI then it gave me an experience that I can guarantee no one else has.

This is 100% accurate. Though that's partially because

defending a motion to dismiss an unfair trade practices claim

this is not a thing.

[Anonymous User]

I know nothing about business generation within firms but couldn't you just tell the company 'hey, i'm just a glorified intern here at this point. contact ______ if you are interest in my firm's services.' Also, I don't understand why you can't just ask your supervisor within the firm this question?

[20160810]

I know nothing about business generation within firms but couldn't you just tell the company 'hey, i'm just a glorified intern here at this point. contact ______ if you are interest in my firm's services.' Also, I don't understand why you can't just ask your supervisor within the firm this question?

It is becoming somewhat apparent that this guy does not realize that the bolded is accurate.