Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it? Forum

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Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 25, 2016 9:43 pm

I'm a fifth year associate at a 20 person law firm in a secondary market. The partners and clients like me, the firm has invested in my training and development, and I make a reasonably comfortable living, around $100k (although my student debt is through the roof, as I lateraled a little over a year ago from a small firm in a quantenary market making $65k and was on ibr; l paid sticker at a lower T14 and was in the top1/3, but that was the only job I got right out of school). Now I have an opportunity to work at a 120 person firm and make around $145, with more hours required (1900 instead of 1500), but the larger firm has a reputation as being a very good place to work as well. The main reason I would make the change is so I could maintain my standard of living and be in a position to pay down my debt. Anyone else been in a similar boat?

buddhabelly

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by buddhabelly » Wed May 25, 2016 9:48 pm

Would your midsize firm hire you back in a few years?

Your quality of life is obviously going to go down, but you gotta do what you gotta do when you're in debt. Seems like you've developed a good relationship with your firm right now, why not spend a few year aggressively paying down your debt and then go back?

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 25, 2016 9:57 pm

Have you thought about trying to go in house?

Magic Hat

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by Magic Hat » Wed May 25, 2016 10:00 pm

buddhabelly wrote:Would your midsize firm hire you back in a few years?

Your quality of life is obviously going to go down, but you gotta do what you gotta do when you're in debt. Seems like you've developed a good relationship with your firm right now, why not spend a few year aggressively paying down your debt and then go back?

That's not really how it works...

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20160810

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by 20160810 » Wed May 25, 2016 10:13 pm

keep in mind you aren't making partner in big law but you very well might if you stay put. With that as a factor it seems weird to use associate salaries as the only data point you consider. Look at this over a 5 year timeframe.

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JusticeJackson

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by JusticeJackson » Thu May 26, 2016 1:42 am

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Last edited by JusticeJackson on Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 26, 2016 1:50 am

JusticeJackson wrote:1500 hours? Unreal. I couldn't afford to make ends meet in my city on 100k. But it sounds like maybe you can in your city? So as a guy that has almost burnt out of Biglaw several times, I'd stay put. Maybe talk to someone to see if you can get a raise. Good luck.
If you can't make ends meet on 100k, it's because of your lifestyle, not because of the city. You can get by in even the most expensive cities on less than 100k, ppl do it all the time.

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 26, 2016 8:37 am

Magic Hat wrote:
buddhabelly wrote:Would your midsize firm hire you back in a few years?

Your quality of life is obviously going to go down, but you gotta do what you gotta do when you're in debt. Seems like you've developed a good relationship with your firm right now, why not spend a few year aggressively paying down your debt and then go back?

That's not really how it works...
Just anecdotally I interviewed at a satellite sub-market BL firm and 2 out of the 5 interviewers had left and come back - both partners. One to market BL and the other to BigFed.

I can see how BL isn't a revolving door but midlaw might be different. Or maybe they were partners already before leaving which gives them more leeway? *shrug*

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by delusional » Thu May 26, 2016 9:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:
JusticeJackson wrote:1500 hours? Unreal. I couldn't afford to make ends meet in my city on 100k. But it sounds like maybe you can in your city? So as a guy that has almost burnt out of Biglaw several times, I'd stay put. Maybe talk to someone to see if you can get a raise. Good luck.
If you can't make ends meet on 100k, it's because of your lifestyle, not because of the city. You can get by in even the most expensive cities on less than 100k, ppl do it all the time.
This might be true for a single healthy person, but certainly not if you include people with families, etc.

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by Magic Hat » Thu May 26, 2016 1:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Magic Hat wrote:
buddhabelly wrote:Would your midsize firm hire you back in a few years?

Your quality of life is obviously going to go down, but you gotta do what you gotta do when you're in debt. Seems like you've developed a good relationship with your firm right now, why not spend a few year aggressively paying down your debt and then go back?

That's not really how it works...
Just anecdotally I interviewed at a satellite sub-market BL firm and 2 out of the 5 interviewers had left and come back - both partners. One to market BL and the other to BigFed.

I can see how BL isn't a revolving door but midlaw might be different. Or maybe they were partners already before leaving which gives them more leeway? *shrug*
Mid law is probably even less so of a revolving door than midlaw. In midlaw hiring is based strictly on a specific need and spots do not open up nearly as frequently. He also talks about how he has been groomed, which likely means if he left there would be bridges burnt.

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 26, 2016 5:57 pm

SBL wrote:keep in mind you aren't making partner in big law but you very well might if you stay put. With that as a factor it seems weird to use associate salaries as the only data point you consider. Look at this over a 5 year timeframe.
OP here. This is a good point. However one other thing that concerns me a bit at my current form is the length of time some people stay associates (often over 10 years)

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by 20160810 » Thu May 26, 2016 6:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:keep in mind you aren't making partner in big law but you very well might if you stay put. With that as a factor it seems weird to use associate salaries as the only data point you consider. Look at this over a 5 year timeframe.
OP here. This is a good point. However one other thing that concerns me a bit at my current form is the length of time some people stay associates (often over 10 years)
At any firm you're going to be made partner when you show that you're really beginning to generate some business. That can just take close to a decade. At the end of the day, they make their living dividing up a pie and cutting you in means a smaller slice, so they're going to wait until they're real sure that you will make the pie bigger.

The partnership track at a big firm certainly won't be shorter or easier. It won't be enough to bring in a couple local car dealerships the way it might at a 20-man shop; you're going to need to show you can land national businesses as clients. I'm not saying you can't do that because I don't know who you are, what kind of lawyer you are, and what kinds of connections you have. But I am saying that about 99% of the people who start out shooting for partnership in biglaw don't make it.

The best thing to do here might be to just have a talk with someone at your current firm. You've been there for 5 years, and it sounds like you have good relationships with the people in charge. It might be worth your time to just lay your cards on the table, tell them you have an offer from the firm you're considering, and see how they react. You can even tell them that you really want to stay, but given the difference in compensation it's going to be tough because you have loans. Try to have a really honest conversation with them about partnership, and ask not only if you're on track but what the timeframe is. After 5 years of working with you, I bet they know.

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tru

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by tru » Thu May 26, 2016 6:29 pm

SBL wrote:.
SBL how long u been in practice? Also solid reply.

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by 20160810 » Thu May 26, 2016 6:45 pm

tru wrote:
SBL wrote:.
SBL how long u been in practice? Also solid reply.
c/o 2012 but I clerked for a year

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tru

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by tru » Thu May 26, 2016 6:48 pm

SBL wrote:
tru wrote:
SBL wrote:.
SBL how long u been in practice? Also solid reply.
c/o 2012 but I clerked for a year
any idea as to how to get into biglaw in dowtown los angeles from doing 1 yr of class action in small firm? my goal is simply to make money and gain litigation experience. i made the big mistake of skipping OCI cuz i had no financial worries.

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by 20160810 » Thu May 26, 2016 6:51 pm

tru wrote:
SBL wrote:
tru wrote:
SBL wrote:.
SBL how long u been in practice? Also solid reply.
c/o 2012 but I clerked for a year
any idea as to how to get into biglaw in dowtown los angeles from doing 1 yr of class action in small firm? my goal is simply to make money and gain litigation experience. i made the big mistake of skipping OCI cuz i had no financial worries.
No idea, apart from just applying.

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by buddhabelly » Thu May 26, 2016 10:57 pm

Magic Hat wrote:
buddhabelly wrote:Would your midsize firm hire you back in a few years?

Your quality of life is obviously going to go down, but you gotta do what you gotta do when you're in debt. Seems like you've developed a good relationship with your firm right now, why not spend a few year aggressively paying down your debt and then go back?

That's not really how it works...
I said that because anecdotally I know two people who have done something similar in midlaw firms. Biglaw is a different matter, but if you leave on good terms in midlaw for a few years they might be happy to take you back. Obviously not a blanket statement, but relationships seem to matter a lot more in midlaw than in biglaw.

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by 20160810 » Fri May 27, 2016 6:34 pm

buddhabelly wrote:
Magic Hat wrote:
buddhabelly wrote:Would your midsize firm hire you back in a few years?

Your quality of life is obviously going to go down, but you gotta do what you gotta do when you're in debt. Seems like you've developed a good relationship with your firm right now, why not spend a few year aggressively paying down your debt and then go back?

That's not really how it works...
I said that because anecdotally I know two people who have done something similar in midlaw firms. Biglaw is a different matter, but if you leave on good terms in midlaw for a few years they might be happy to take you back. Obviously not a blanket statement, but relationships seem to matter a lot more in midlaw than in biglaw.
That relationship is likely to be substantially less good after he leaves the firm

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Re: Anyone leave good midsize gig for larger firm for money and regret it?

Post by whysoseriousbiglaw » Mon May 30, 2016 4:24 pm

OP - is your midlaw firm hiring? Because your job sounds infinitely better than biglaw. Biglaw money is shit per hour - stay put and also PM me your firm and tell me if they are hiring. Thanks.

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