da vs pd

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poweradezero

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da vs pd

Postby poweradezero » Tue May 17, 2016 5:55 pm

In general, which job carries more prestige? I know a lot of adas eventually move on to become judges, Ausa, etc.. what do PDs do when they get more experience?

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bearsfan23

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Re: da vs pd

Postby bearsfan23 » Tue May 17, 2016 6:06 pm

I consider DA to be more prestigious

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CaptainLeela

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Welcome to TLS

Postby CaptainLeela » Tue May 17, 2016 6:07 pm

Welcome to TLS

tyroneslothrop1

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Re: da vs pd

Postby tyroneslothrop1 » Tue May 17, 2016 6:15 pm

Probably don't want to become a PD if prestige is what you're after. It is a difficult and often thankless job. That being said, you shouldn't become a DA either, if you want prestige. You need to raise your sights. Go for US attorney, or DOJ. Then you'll be showering in that shit. It is likely many women of questionable morality will be throwing themselves at you.

poweradezero

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Re: da vs pd

Postby poweradezero » Tue May 17, 2016 6:19 pm

Can u be more specific about which Doj section? also, dont most ausa have lots of ada experience?

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Re: da vs pd

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 17, 2016 6:27 pm

DA's don't become judges because they have a more "prestigious" job. They become judges because the voting population are mouth breathers who only vote for judges who boast the loudest about being "tough on crime".

ballouttacontrol

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Re: da vs pd

Postby ballouttacontrol » Tue May 17, 2016 6:36 pm

For political reasons das definitely have the leg up over PDS. Just look at high ranking us officials, wayyyyy more prosecutors than defenders. Something about defending crazy murderers and rapists seems to hurt the general public perception

This coming from someone that completely supports pds, I consider you guys saints. It's bullshit but from everything I've seen it seems to be true nonetheless

poweradezero

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Re: da vs pd

Postby poweradezero » Tue May 17, 2016 6:47 pm

Isnt that kind of given though? why would u want to vote for someone who helped hundreds of murders as opposed to those who prosecuted them. No offense to PDs. Ive seen some great PDs who were super good trial attorneys.

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Re: da vs pd

Postby HamlinMcgill » Tue May 17, 2016 7:06 pm

poweradezero wrote:Isnt that kind of given though? why would u want to vote for someone who helped hundreds of murders as opposed to those who prosecuted them. No offense to PDs. Ive seen some great PDs who were super good trial attorneys.


If that's how you see it, then why are you even asking whether you should be a PD?

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anon sequitur

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Re: da vs pd

Postby anon sequitur » Tue May 17, 2016 7:37 pm

Just wanted to point out that very few ADAs move on to become AUSAs or judges, not "a lot". It's just comparatively way, way more than PDs.

Oh, and by the way, law jobs are not prestigious.

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: da vs pd

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue May 17, 2016 8:02 pm

Define "prestige" before anyone else makes us dumber by answering this question.

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Re: da vs pd

Postby tyroneslothrop1 » Tue May 17, 2016 8:17 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Define "prestige" before anyone else makes us dumber by answering this question.


Ratio of models and bottles to legal hours billed. PD's clock in at about at 0.2 (low pay; lame clients; little public exposure). ADA's get you to about 0.35 (better pay; opportunities for grandstanding, etc.). US attorneys and DOJ, well, now we are talking. It is well known that brings you up past 0.5 (rule of thumb is 0.6-0.75). These bring a very real possibility of mentions in the NY times. They are also a springboard to high level executive appointments and/or elected office. Obviously, very desirable.

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Re: da vs pd

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 18, 2016 10:53 am

Can I slightly derail for a bit to ask, generally, how do you know which job is best for you (DA or PD)? I.E., what should you want out of a job if you choose an ADA position over a PD position, or vice-versa?

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Re: da vs pd

Postby fauxpsych » Wed May 18, 2016 2:49 pm

If you're picking a side because of prestige, be sure to mention that in interviews.

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Re: da vs pd

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 18, 2016 2:53 pm

HamlinMcgill wrote:
poweradezero wrote:Isnt that kind of given though? why would u want to vote for someone who helped hundreds of murders as opposed to those who prosecuted them. No offense to PDs. Ive seen some great PDs who were super good trial attorneys.


If that's how you see it, then why are you even asking whether you should be a PD?


If you think this way about public defense work your interviewers will be able to tell. PDs don't see what they do this way. You shouldn't become a public defender.

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: da vs pd

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed May 18, 2016 3:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can I slightly derail for a bit to ask, generally, how do you know which job is best for you (DA or PD)? I.E., what should you want out of a job if you choose an ADA position over a PD position, or vice-versa?

Well, do you want to defend poor people or do you want to prosecute crimes? Is that not a stark enough distinction for you?

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Yukos

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Re: da vs pd

Postby Yukos » Wed May 18, 2016 11:27 pm

If you can't tell immediately whether you'd rather be a prosecutor or a PD you should probably be neither. But definitely don't be a PD.

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Re: da vs pd

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 19, 2016 12:36 am

I assume by "prestige" we're really talking about exit options, as some of the more serious posts here have implied. Do those exit options vary based on whether we're talking about trial-level PD work or appellate PD work? My uninformed guess would have been that PDs who do appeals would be seen as somewhat more "prestigious" than those who do trials (and thus would have a greater variety of exit options). Is there any truth to that?

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Re: da vs pd

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 19, 2016 1:04 am

To the lay person, DA probably carries more "prestige."

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Re: da vs pd

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 19, 2016 3:21 am

DA's office. As a prosecutor, you're a LEO and an attorney vested with the power of the State. Most get badges, and enjoy extremely lax concealed carry laws, such as within NYC. And although you're not within the same chain of command as the Police Dept., you are nonetheless viewed as a superior officer by cops who walk the beat - no matter how green you are. (Just don't go off trying to throw your "2LT" weight around to a "Sergeant Major".) Your status is similarly reflected by laypeople due to popular TV shows such as Law and Order.

poweradezero

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Re: da vs pd

Postby poweradezero » Thu May 19, 2016 4:00 am

Is it really true that cops in nyc view ADAs as upper level LEO? What do u mean by walking the beat here? would u say that is true of other locations too?

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Re: da vs pd

Postby Borhas » Thu May 19, 2016 10:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:Can I slightly derail for a bit to ask, generally, how do you know which job is best for you (DA or PD)? I.E., what should you want out of a job if you choose an ADA position over a PD position, or vice-versa?


prosecution is easier and you will have more support staff but still a ton of cases and sometimes a lot of power (unless you are in an office where the line DA has little discretion in what offers to give)

as a PD your work will be harder because you will actually have clients and not as much support staff

Both will try many cases and can probably go into small time litigation as an exit or private criminal defense. Neither is prestigious in the legal community (except federal defender or AUSA), but prosecutors are generally respected in a lot of communities (though probably less nowadays than before) across political lines.

DA's tend to be relatively boring/lame/put together on average, PD's tend to be more chill but more screwed up

A good DA is fair, a good PD is strongly partisan

All in all if you want to do criminal law and aren't sure which, you should probably go with DA. You don't want to go the PD route unless you are sure of it.
Last edited by Borhas on Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Borhas

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Re: da vs pd

Postby Borhas » Thu May 19, 2016 11:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:I assume by "prestige" we're really talking about exit options, as some of the more serious posts here have implied. Do those exit options vary based on whether we're talking about trial-level PD work or appellate PD work? My uninformed guess would have been that PDs who do appeals would be seen as somewhat more "prestigious" than those who do trials (and thus would have a greater variety of exit options). Is there any truth to that?


I don't know a ton about this, but I really doubt that criminal appeals (whether prosecution or defense) has any decent exit options. The big plus for DA/PD practice is the trial experience which can carry over well to small time litigation, but criminal law itself is not very transferable outside of that. If you are doing criminal appeals you are basically specializing in two things that don't transfer well to private sector. I mean, sure you can write well and know the appellate process, but I don't think there is any decent market for specialized appellate writers who mostly know crim law.

I would personally not recommend going into appeals on either side if you can avoid it. If you are DA appellate you are responding to a lot of hopeless defense appeals and if you are defense you are writing a lot of hopeless appeals. Every now and then there are good issues I guess. But the bulk of the work would be boring compared to trial lawyering. On the other hand, the hours are way better and you don't have to deal with people, so it can be a good fit for some people.
Last edited by Borhas on Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fauxpsych

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Re: da vs pd

Postby fauxpsych » Thu May 19, 2016 11:31 am

Yukos wrote:If you can't tell immediately whether you'd rather be a prosecutor or a PD you should probably be neither. But definitely don't be a PD.


I disagree, I've seen people successfully flip over after 1L summer. MUCH harder ada -> pd, if you have ada on resume vs criminal judge.


poweradezero wrote:Is it really true that cops in nyc view ADAs as upper level LEO? What do u mean by walking the beat here? would u say that is true of other locations too?


Absolutely not. Maybe the ones just out of the academy.

Literally the only people I've seen who think that were no-offered interns. It's just a shitty attitude to have. Yeah, a DA is technically law enforcement, but your role is way more nuanced and often at odds to the NYPDs goals and policy. The only people you "outrank" are your own office's detective investigators, who likely make more than you.

Cops are just your witnesses, and can be as shitty and uncooperative as other witnesses. I remember we nearly had to subpoena one too come in (which would have fucked with his overtime).

Also Just define what you mean by "prestige". Successful PDs definitely carry their own prestige in lega, academic, and policy circles.

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Re: da vs pd

Postby gaddockteeg » Thu May 19, 2016 11:44 am

DA. More money (not a lot more), more power (dat prosecutorial discretion), more lateral opportunities.

Above commenters are all correct though. Federal gigs are still better.



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