Summer Associate Class of 2016

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What's the damage so far this summer?

I've actually lost weight.
34
22%
Essentially the same.
32
21%
2-5 pounds
34
22%
5-10 pounds
26
17%
10-15 pounds
10
6%
It's bad.
19
12%
 
Total votes: 155

RaceJudicata

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby RaceJudicata » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:10 pm

Haven't had the conversation yet, and no indication it will go this way, so knock on wood. But, will you know if you have been cold offered?

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:44 pm

Is there a difference between a "cold-offer" and a "no-offer"?

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:13 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Asking this here cause I don't want to make a new thread. For the firms that asked UG transcripts at the screener, does it matter if they're shit (like <2.6 shit) if your law school grades are good?

It's pretty annoying that firms ask for UG transcript at all because my password expired and it's a pain in the ass to get my unofficial transcript.


It depends on who is interviewing you, I've got top grades at lower t14, but had a mediocre gpa (3.0) so I left it off the my resume. One interviewer out of /30 or so asked "how I did in undergrad...." followed by, "well what was your GPA?" This was for non-IP, corporate interested practice. The rest of the interview was awkward because of it.

This is all to say, most likely will not matter, unless it does matter.

Traynor Brah

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Traynor Brah » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is there a difference between a "cold-offer" and a "no-offer"?

yeah I mean a no offer means you are not welcome to return, publicly

a cold offer is an official offer, that you can in fact accept, though the firm is telling you that you should seek other employment because they do not like you, but do not want to publicly appear to be a firm that no-offers summers

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:30 pm

Traynor Brah wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there a difference between a "cold-offer" and a "no-offer"?

yeah I mean a no offer means you are not welcome to return, publicly

a cold offer is an official offer, that you can in fact accept, though the firm is telling you that you should seek other employment because they do not like you, but do not want to publicly appear to be a firm that no-offers summers


Do people actually ever accept these offers? What happens to these people?

Babum

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Babum » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Traynor Brah wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there a difference between a "cold-offer" and a "no-offer"?

yeah I mean a no offer means you are not welcome to return, publicly

a cold offer is an official offer, that you can in fact accept, though the firm is telling you that you should seek other employment because they do not like you, but do not want to publicly appear to be a firm that no-offers summers


Do people actually ever accept these offers? What happens to these people?


I thought they helped the person find another job without having to deal with the whole "no offered" thing.

barkschool

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby barkschool » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Traynor Brah wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there a difference between a "cold-offer" and a "no-offer"?

yeah I mean a no offer means you are not welcome to return, publicly

a cold offer is an official offer, that you can in fact accept, though the firm is telling you that you should seek other employment because they do not like you, but do not want to publicly appear to be a firm that no-offers summers


Do people actually ever accept these offers? What happens to these people?


Ted Cruz

Mod edit: outed for anon abuse.

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:21 pm

Babum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Traynor Brah wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there a difference between a "cold-offer" and a "no-offer"?

yeah I mean a no offer means you are not welcome to return, publicly

a cold offer is an official offer, that you can in fact accept, though the firm is telling you that you should seek other employment because they do not like you, but do not want to publicly appear to be a firm that no-offers summers


Do people actually ever accept these offers? What happens to these people?


I thought they helped the person find another job without having to deal with the whole "no offered" thing.


That's not as bad as it seems then. Do they help them essentially lateral to another biglaw firm?

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:22 pm

What firms have given out offers today?

Babum

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Babum » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Babum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Traynor Brah wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there a difference between a "cold-offer" and a "no-offer"?

yeah I mean a no offer means you are not welcome to return, publicly

a cold offer is an official offer, that you can in fact accept, though the firm is telling you that you should seek other employment because they do not like you, but do not want to publicly appear to be a firm that no-offers summers


Do people actually ever accept these offers? What happens to these people?


I thought they helped the person find another job without having to deal with the whole "no offered" thing.


That's not as bad as it seems then. Do they help them essentially lateral to another biglaw firm?


Sorry, by "they" I meant the cold offers. In a way, the firm lets you tell others that they offered you. At least that's how I understand it to be.

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deuceindc

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby deuceindc » Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:42 pm

Doesn't cold-offering hurt your brand as a firm? If you allow summers to walk out the door with "offer extended" on their resumes because you want to keep your 100% offer rate, seems like it would eventually become known that you're doing so and that your former summers who are shopping as 3Ls didn't fit in. Does the "cold offer" thing come up when other firms call to follow up on references? Or maybe interviewing reveals whose offers were cold and whose were not?

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AT9

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby AT9 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:00 pm

Got an offer, thank god.

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jbagelboy

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:15 pm

deuceindc wrote:Doesn't cold-offering hurt your brand as a firm? If you allow summers to walk out the door with "offer extended" on their resumes because you want to keep your 100% offer rate, seems like it would eventually become known that you're doing so and that your former summers who are shopping as 3Ls didn't fit in. Does the "cold offer" thing come up when other firms call to follow up on references? Or maybe interviewing reveals whose offers were cold and whose were not?


every firm does cold offers. even and especially the firms that have 100% stated offer rates. its industry practice so I don't think it really hurts anyone's brand, and the cold offered folks aren't going around broadcasting it. they have to act wanted

RaceJudicata

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby RaceJudicata » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:18 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
deuceindc wrote:Doesn't cold-offering hurt your brand as a firm? If you allow summers to walk out the door with "offer extended" on their resumes because you want to keep your 100% offer rate, seems like it would eventually become known that you're doing so and that your former summers who are shopping as 3Ls didn't fit in. Does the "cold offer" thing come up when other firms call to follow up on references? Or maybe interviewing reveals whose offers were cold and whose were not?


every firm does cold offers. even and especially the firms that have 100% stated offer rates. its industry practice so I don't think it really hurts anyone's brand, and the cold offered folks aren't going around broadcasting it. they have to act wanted



Is a cold offer clear as day? Like will you leave the interview knowing that the writing is on the wall? Or is the message more subtle and cryptic?

Jfc why are they making me sit in my office all day with nothing to do... Suspense is killing me.

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Serett

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Serett » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:21 pm

Offer + all done.

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:28 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
deuceindc wrote:Doesn't cold-offering hurt your brand as a firm? If you allow summers to walk out the door with "offer extended" on their resumes because you want to keep your 100% offer rate, seems like it would eventually become known that you're doing so and that your former summers who are shopping as 3Ls didn't fit in. Does the "cold offer" thing come up when other firms call to follow up on references? Or maybe interviewing reveals whose offers were cold and whose were not?


every firm does cold offers. even and especially the firms that have 100% stated offer rates. its industry practice so I don't think it really hurts anyone's brand, and the cold offered folks aren't going around broadcasting it. they have to act wanted



Is a cold offer clear as day? Like will you leave the interview knowing that the writing is on the wall? Or is the message more subtle and cryptic?

Jfc why are they making me sit in my office all day with nothing to do... Suspense is killing me.


This.

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:20 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
deuceindc wrote:Doesn't cold-offering hurt your brand as a firm? If you allow summers to walk out the door with "offer extended" on their resumes because you want to keep your 100% offer rate, seems like it would eventually become known that you're doing so and that your former summers who are shopping as 3Ls didn't fit in. Does the "cold offer" thing come up when other firms call to follow up on references? Or maybe interviewing reveals whose offers were cold and whose were not?


every firm does cold offers. even and especially the firms that have 100% stated offer rates. its industry practice so I don't think it really hurts anyone's brand, and the cold offered folks aren't going around broadcasting it. they have to act wanted


Yep. Cold offers are ubiquitous and more common than people think. It's pretty easy to tell if someone was cold offered - if they've wiped the firm off their LinkedIn page the next year or if their post-grad job simply doesn't make any sense as an improvement on the job they gave up. You'll start to figure out who got them in about 6 months.

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:29 pm

What happens on the day someone gets a cold-offer? Do they still put on a smile and go to the celebratory dinner/event, or just go home? I'm just so afraid of this happening to me.

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:43 pm

Traynor Brah wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there a difference between a "cold-offer" and a "no-offer"?

yeah I mean a no offer means you are not welcome to return, publicly

a cold offer is an official offer, that you can in fact accept, though the firm is telling you that you should seek other employment because they do not like you, but do not want to publicly appear to be a firm that no-offers summers


Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought that a cold-offer meant that you still couldn't come back but they would lie and say you're offered if a firm contacted them about it

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EzraFitz

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby EzraFitz » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Traynor Brah wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there a difference between a "cold-offer" and a "no-offer"?

yeah I mean a no offer means you are not welcome to return, publicly

a cold offer is an official offer, that you can in fact accept, though the firm is telling you that you should seek other employment because they do not like you, but do not want to publicly appear to be a firm that no-offers summers


Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought that a cold-offer meant that you still couldn't come back but they would lie and say you're offered if a firm contacted them about it

You are incorrect, it is an official, acceptable offer. If a firm did that kind of cold-offer, they WOULD be lying and their brand would suffer, because that really isn't an offer of any kind.

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What happens on the day someone gets a cold-offer? Do they still put on a smile and go to the celebratory dinner/event, or just go home? I'm just so afraid of this happening to me.


My friend did the former, because she needed to cover up what had just happened. She had whatever the female equivalent of balls of steel are; she even went out and got "wasted" at her celebratory afterparty and never let it slip.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Traynor Brah wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there a difference between a "cold-offer" and a "no-offer"?

yeah I mean a no offer means you are not welcome to return, publicly

a cold offer is an official offer, that you can in fact accept, though the firm is telling you that you should seek other employment because they do not like you, but do not want to publicly appear to be a firm that no-offers summers


Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought that a cold-offer meant that you still couldn't come back but they would lie and say you're offered if a firm contacted them about it


There are different levels of cold offer. The merely chilly - "were happy to give you an offer to return here next year, but you should consider looking at others firms to go to after you graduate as we think you're not a great fit here." Then on the other end of the spectrum there's something more like "while we are extending you an offer, we don't think it would be a good idea if you returned next fall and you may be terminated very shortly after you return if your work isn't dramatically improved from what we've seen this summer". Each firm has its own formulation and often multiple formulations.

I don't think my firm gives cold offers, but too many of my friends from LS got them for me to think they are particularly rare, especially among firms that wish they didn't have to 100% offer because they overhired.

Babum

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Babum » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What happens on the day someone gets a cold-offer? Do they still put on a smile and go to the celebratory dinner/event, or just go home? I'm just so afraid of this happening to me.


My friend did the former, because she needed to cover up what had just happened. She had whatever the female equivalent of balls of steel are; she even went out and got "wasted" at her celebratory afterparty and never let it slip.


We are going to need a more in-depth description of "wasted."

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:48 am

At my firm there is a famous true story about an awful summer who ignored several assignment requests, did abnormally shitty work on the stuff actually handed in, and was generally a very disliked person by everyone.

This person got a very cold offer. This person accepted anyway.

This person is now a mid-level associate at the firm and afaik, has had no major incidents since that summer. He or she never once was told or even hinted to that he or she needs to quit or else he or she would be getting fired or anything like that. This person is still disliked by other associates but several partners seem to actually like him or her and this person seems to be doing quite well career wise.

Anecdotal but it just goes to show that cold offers are not even close to the same as no offers. If you get a cold offer for a non-specific reason, e.g. instead of one random large slip up, you're just an insufferable person--I actually think it's fine to accept anyway. If this describes you then you undoubtedly are not self-aware enough to know you're insufferable, because if you were then you wouldn't be. But, if you're that way at one firm, you will be that way at the next firm, and it will only be a matter of time before you have the same reputation at the new place. So what difference does it make?

Despite thoughts to the contrary, there is NO firm where being an asshole is an acceptable or tolerable quality. There are definitely firms where assholes are prevalent. But this doesn't mean that they want any more or that the existing assholes want to work with other ones. At the very least, I might look for other jobs, but if I couldn't get a different firm that paid market to make me an offer within the allowable time to accept at the cold offer firm, I would accept the cold offer. At least at my firm, it is quite large, and unless you're in a very specialized group, you work with lots of different people typically and it's easy to sort of make it through several years under the radar. So cold offer or not, unless you have some crazy partner aspirations, you'll probably be ready to leave big law by the time anyone who matters starts to know who you are.

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Re: Summer Associate Class of 2016

Postby Pure Applesauce » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:28 am

.
Last edited by Pure Applesauce on Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.



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