Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

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Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:27 am

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Tls2016

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Tls2016 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:42 am

This is very tricky. I would hire an excellent C &F attorney today. Call the bar association referral line. You have a huge risk of NY following California here - did you have an attorney there?
I don't know what your firm will do. You need to go in to them with a solid plan of how you are going to approach the situation and get it resolved.

I know at my firm if you fail the bar twice you are out. Really no mercy at all. They need people to be licensed. You are pushing beyond that time limit. My guess is you have a good shot at losing your job.

Sorry to be bleak but you need to get on this today.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:05 am

Doesn't NY C&F take significantly longer since it is all done post bar exam? Wasn't unusual at all at my old firm for people to pass the July bar and not be admitted until their 3rd year (I also thought there was a 3 year window in NY to get admitted after passing). The fail twice and out rule seems to be biglaw standard, but this is clearly not that scenario.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:14 am

Tls2016 wrote:This is very tricky. I would hire an excellent C &F attorney today. Call the bar association referral line. You have a huge risk of NY following California here - did you have an attorney there?
I don't know what your firm will do. You need to go in to them with a solid plan of how you are going to approach the situation and get it resolved.

I know at my firm if you fail the bar twice you are out. Really no mercy at all. They need people to be licensed. You are pushing beyond that time limit. My guess is you have a good shot at losing your job.

Sorry to be bleak but you need to get on this today.


OP here. No reason to apologize - I came here for answers. I did have a C&F attorney and I was not entirely pleased with his service but, here I am.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:15 am

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Tls2016 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:Doesn't NY C&F take significantly longer since it is all done post bar exam? Wasn't unusual at all at my old firm for people to pass the July bar and not be admitted until their 3rd year (I also thought there was a 3 year window in NY to get admitted after passing). The fail twice and out rule seems to be biglaw standard, but this is clearly not that scenario.

I don't know anyone who took 3 years to be admitted, I could be wrong.. I think it's a mistake for OP to think he can just wait it out.
I thought the reason for two tries and you're out on the bar exam was because they need people to be admitted. Maybe it is something else.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:17 am

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:19 am

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:24 pm

Tls2016 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Doesn't NY C&F take significantly longer since it is all done post bar exam? Wasn't unusual at all at my old firm for people to pass the July bar and not be admitted until their 3rd year (I also thought there was a 3 year window in NY to get admitted after passing). The fail twice and out rule seems to be biglaw standard, but this is clearly not that scenario.

I don't know anyone who took 3 years to be admitted, I could be wrong.. I think it's a mistake for OP to think he can just wait it out.
I thought the reason for two tries and you're out on the bar exam was because they need people to be admitted. Maybe it is something else.


Same Anon, personally have known 4 such people (3rd year in terms of class year, not 3rd full year). Not saying waiting it out is the right move, just saying I have never personally heard of anyone being fired for not being admitted with a 1 year cycle. The fail twice and out is more a sign of competency. I am in no way, shape or form telling OP to not seek counsel, I just was hashing off some of your own doom and gloom about the OP's job security if this takes more than 1 year to figure out.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Tls2016 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tls2016 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Doesn't NY C&F take significantly longer since it is all done post bar exam? Wasn't unusual at all at my old firm for people to pass the July bar and not be admitted until their 3rd year (I also thought there was a 3 year window in NY to get admitted after passing). The fail twice and out rule seems to be biglaw standard, but this is clearly not that scenario.

I don't know anyone who took 3 years to be admitted, I could be wrong.. I think it's a mistake for OP to think he can just wait it out.
I thought the reason for two tries and you're out on the bar exam was because they need people to be admitted. Maybe it is something else.


Same Anon, personally have known 4 such people (3rd year in terms of class year, not 3rd full year). Not saying waiting it out is the right move, just saying I have never personally heard of anyone being fired for not being admitted with a 1 year cycle. The fail twice and out is more a sign of competency. I am in no way, shape or form telling OP to not seek counsel, I just was hashing off some of your own doom and gloom about the OP's job security if this takes more than 1 year to figure out.

Ah, ok. Good to know. I didnt think it was competency related because the few people I saw let go for failing the bar twice had been summers and had been doing good work for six months or so.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:06 pm

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:12 pm

FWIW, I had a similar issue and was delayed admittance (not NY or CA). I went DIRECTLY to the firm and explained to them the situation. It worked out for me, but the firm did convey to me that if I had attempted to hide my little issue then they may have not looked at it so favorably. In the end, it is your call. I would address it now rather than later.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:23 pm

It really depends on the firm. Some don't care if you're admitted, some will fire you. If your firm is hassling you to get admitted you need to tell someone what's going on.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby ChinaCat » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:24 pm

Hey just wondering why you need to take the California bar if you're working in NY?

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:54 pm

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:50 am

Apologize for bumping this - this is an extremely stressful time and I am hoping to find more insight

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby lurklaw » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:Apologize for bumping this - this is an extremely stressful time and I am hoping to find more insight

You should get a C&F lawyer in NY.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:40 am

OP: My impression is that your firm isn't going to have a clear cut approach, and it's purely discretionary. It's really going to come down to how well liked you are.

Also, how much did you pay for C&F assistance, and what did the lawyer do? I have a lot of drug offenses as well (but all from college). I was not an addict, which I know what all addicts say but I just really liked drugs, and quit cold turkey without effort when I stopped having enough free time to get high. I am good at handling these kinds of things so don't know if I need a lawyer.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have a lot of drug offenses as well (but all from college). . . . I am good at handling these kinds of things so don't know if I need a lawyer.


Just curious: How many drug offenses is "a lot"?

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby case » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:29 pm

I went through CA character and fitness several years ago. Had several alcohol related convictions, including a DUI, in addition to an addiction to prescription drugs. I had been sober (full abstention) since a month before law school. Hired a lawyer and spent 4-5K. It was helpful though probably not imperative that I did so. Given the relative severity of my issues I was admitted pretty quickly. My moral character application was processed in about 9 months. My admission was delayed by 5 months after bar passage because I applied late. Hiring an attorney is the safe thing to do. Why risk it? Form and tone matter and a pair of experienced eyes is useful in that regard. My general advice is to be matter of fact and completely open.

With respect to the firm, I was candid with them very early in the process and they liked me, so there was no issue.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have a lot of drug offenses as well (but all from college). . . . I am good at handling these kinds of things so don't know if I need a lawyer.


Just curious: How many drug offenses is "a lot"?

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby case » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:58 pm

If you lie and are caught you will not be admitted. The bar is going to ask very particular questions regarding precisely what occurred. They are going to ask what drugs, how long, where did you get them, when did you stop, do you still use substances of any type, why did you stop. I would not approach the situation lightly. This is at least true in states with stringent C&F requirements, e.g. CA or Florida.

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:04 pm

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:05 pm

With regard to telling the firm, I can offer my own personal anecdote, for whatever it's worth. Before my SA started, I was pulled over in NY and arrested for DUI. (later plead down to DWAI, traffic violation). I called up my firm ASAP and told them the story. The first thing they said was that my decision to callet them showed honesty and they looked on it favorably. Ended up having a good summer and getting an offer. What I'm going to do about NY C&F is still something I haven't quite figured out, not sure if need an attorney.

TLDR: I say disclose promptly to your firm whats going on

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Re: Delayed by CA C&F - NYC Biglaw...what do I do?

Postby homestyle28 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:28 pm

I think you have to disclose asap. In our profession, there's a better than 50% chance you'll be disclosing to someone who has had (or has) a similar issue with substance abuse. They'll probably understand that. They won't forgive lying or hiding it. You've been there long enough to have done some work that hopefully speaks well enough of your abilities so that they'll want to keep you. But even if you eventually pass C&F, if your firm finds out you hid this or lied about it, you're toast.



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