Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke Forum

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jbagelboy

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by jbagelboy » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: Look at the credentials of the people they hired from Duke . . . Multiple clerkships, law review, published, top of class, etc. etc.
So you should be published and have multiple clerkships lined up even before the 2L year really starts? How?
No, of course not. Those are the credentials of full time associates, not summer hires. But you would presumably be on track for these things and have top 1L grades. You don't need a clerkship to summer at w&c but you would almost certainly have one before working there.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:57 am

bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm at 3.65 so it looks like W&C is a pipe dream I guess, even if I somehow managed to pull off a 4.0 this semester :cry:
If you got a 4.0 this semester you would be in the running. Don't listen to the noise. You would solidly be above 3.8.
That's a big if. But the bigger issue is that nobody, even the top of the class, should obsess about any one specific firm. OP should focus on grades now and then come up with a reasonable fall application strategy based on their grades. Worrying about W&C during February of 1L is utterly pointless.
^^^^^

Was top 5% at CCN

Didn't get a W&C callback

Didn't matter, ended up somewhere I'm much happier with and realized later I didn't even want to live in DC, I just wanted the shiny gold "you're the best!" star sticker that W&C symbolized. Fixating on a single firm is dumb in ways you don't realize yet, OP - it's not just a bad approach to your own chances of getting solid employment, but you probably don't really know your practice area preferences yet, what type of work environment you'll be happiest in, etc.

This'll probably fall on deaf ears, I was the same kinda kid as OP during 1L, totally set on a particular firm, practice area, judge to clerk for, etc etc, and I wouldn't have listened to my own advice... but shit often doesn't shake out like you expect it will, both externally and internally. Forget that W&C exists. Not because you don't have a chance (well... you probably don't), but because 99% chance you do not have enough information yet to justify that kind of fixation.

Also, people definitely can have multiple clerkships lined up before 2L starts. I know of a few who did in the past couple years. It was the crew who had those + top 5% + _______ who got the W&C CBs.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:49 pm

3L at GULC here-- they took ~7 from my class, all except 1 top 5ish percent with clerkships.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm at 3.65 so it looks like W&C is a pipe dream I guess, even if I somehow managed to pull off a 4.0 this semester :cry:
If you got a 4.0 this semester you would be in the running. Don't listen to the noise. You would solidly be above 3.8.
That's a big if. But the bigger issue is that nobody, even the top of the class, should obsess about any one specific firm. OP should focus on grades now and then come up with a reasonable fall application strategy based on their grades. Worrying about W&C during February of 1L is utterly pointless.
^^^^^

Was top 5% at CCN

Didn't get a W&C callback

Didn't matter, ended up somewhere I'm much happier with and realized later I didn't even want to live in DC, I just wanted the shiny gold "you're the best!" star sticker that W&C symbolized. Fixating on a single firm is dumb in ways you don't realize yet, OP - it's not just a bad approach to your own chances of getting solid employment, but you probably don't really know your practice area preferences yet, what type of work environment you'll be happiest in, etc.

This'll probably fall on deaf ears, I was the same kinda kid as OP during 1L, totally set on a particular firm, practice area, judge to clerk for, etc etc, and I wouldn't have listened to my own advice... but shit often doesn't shake out like you expect it will, both externally and internally. Forget that W&C exists. Not because you don't have a chance (well... you probably don't), but because 99% chance you do not have enough information yet to justify that kind of fixation.

Also, people definitely can have multiple clerkships lined up before 2L starts. I know of a few who did in the past couple years. It was the crew who had those + top 5% + _______ who got the W&C CBs.
I spent this past summer at W&C and completely co-sign this advice.

Barring prior paralegal work, you have not spent a moment in a legal workplace as yet, and you don't know what sort of work you'll jibe with. Do you like litigation? (W&C does that almost exclusively.) Do you want to live in D.C.? (Only one office.) Those two things you can try to figure out via a job this summer, and they are infinitely more important than the name on the firm's door.

But even if you're dead-set on D.C. litigation, there are tons of wonderful firms that fit the bill, and it doesn't make sense to focus on just one. I loved my summer, and W&C was a great fit for me, but that isn't the case for everyone.

Legal hiring is so idiosyncratic that it just doesn't make sense to focus all your energy on one firm. If you don't gel with your interviewer or are just having an off-day, you could be out of the running despite sterling credentials.

So the best advice moving forward is to work hard and absolutely kill it this semester. Not because doing so will guarantee you a job at W&C—it won't—but because great grades will give you more great options overall.

Good luck!

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Abbie Doobie » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:32 am

well this thread was amusing

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:35 am

Why are you settling on W&C? Kellogg Huber is more elite.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:53 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: Look at the credentials of the people they hired from Duke . . . Multiple clerkships, law review, published, top of class, etc. etc.
So you should be published and have multiple clerkships lined up even before the 2L year really starts? How?
No, of course not. Those are the credentials of full time associates, not summer hires. But you would presumably be on track for these things and have top 1L grades. You don't need a clerkship to summer at w&c but you would almost certainly have one before working there.
For whatever it's worth, of the 7 people I know at my school who got W&C offers this year, at least 6 of them at clerkships lined up at the time (and five of the six were with feeders). That doesn't mean you need to have a clerkship already to get an offer, but it definitely seems to be a pretty big advantage (and maybe is necessary at some other firms--e.g., Susman or Kellogg).

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:05 am

Are you referring to offers after their summer at the firm? or do some people get clerkships before OCI?

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Transfer to HLS + write-on to HLR
OP here. By headcount, they have hired from:

Harvard Law School
University of Virginia Law School
Duke Law School
Yale Law School
University of Pennsylvania Law School
Columbia Law School
University of Michigan Law School
Stanford Law School

Is there that big of a difference? Esp considering that Harvard is a much bigger school than Duke
They also hire from other schools and I think people are over estimating how selective they are, they have hired multiple people from UT...not Chancellors and not on law review. I was at a T14, no law review, probably top 15-20% when CB came around. They are very selective, but they are also just looking a lot for "fit." I think that is given more weight than people are thinking.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:47 am

Edit: double post

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:Are you referring to offers after their summer at the firm? or do some people get clerkships before OCI?
At the time of OCI.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by mrs.miawallace » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:07 pm

try Arnold Porter, it's similar to Williams Connolly but eaSIER to get in, i mean not everyone can get w&c, we all come into law school having certain dream jobs, and life is a process of constantly lowering your aims.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:29 am

there's someone on a non-DLJ journal going to W&C, so you can get it outside of the top ~5% of the class at Duke. but please do not focus your attention on one firm. there's so many variables that go into OCI that you're literally setting yourself up for disappointment. there's a ton of good firms in DC--keep your grades up (ideally improve them a little) and you're probably good to go at one of them. have some perspective: you are likely solid for DC and a LOT of kids at Duke who want DC can't get it.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by jbagelboy » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:there's someone on a non-DLJ journal going to W&C, so you can get it outside of the top ~5% of the class at Duke. but please do not focus your attention on one firm. there's so many variables that go into OCI that you're literally setting yourself up for disappointment. there's a ton of good firms in DC--keep your grades up (ideally improve them a little) and you're probably good to go at one of them. have some perspective: you are likely solid for DC and a LOT of kids at Duke who want DC can't get it.
Is duke grade-on LR?

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:50 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:there's someone on a non-DLJ journal going to W&C, so you can get it outside of the top ~5% of the class at Duke. but please do not focus your attention on one firm. there's so many variables that go into OCI that you're literally setting yourself up for disappointment. there's a ton of good firms in DC--keep your grades up (ideally improve them a little) and you're probably good to go at one of them. have some perspective: you are likely solid for DC and a LOT of kids at Duke who want DC can't get it.
Is duke grade-on LR?
Yes and no. Breakdown of how to get on DLJ: 1/3 get on 100% based on grades, 1/3 get on based 50% on grades and 50% on writing competition, and 1/3 get on 100% based on writing competition. The next most competitive journal (historically) is 60% grades and 40% writing competition for everybody. Generally results in DLJ having the crop of people with the highest grades, but the next journal (L&CP) having the highest average GPA. Could easily see someone with stellar grades (and who is competitive for W&C) putting in little effort on the write-on competition because they're assuming they'll grade-on to DLJ and then not getting one of those ~11 grade-on spots and landing L&CP instead.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke- now top 10-15%

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:44 am

OP here. Hate to dredge up an old topic, but I'm now around a 3.7, which looks to be somewhere between top 10% and top 15% (my previous estimate of top 25% for a 3.65 was pretty conservative).

I'd still like to bid on W&C during OCI, but my GPA would put me somewhere between the 10th to the 25th percentile GPAs of those who received offers (and we had quite a few people getting offers each year, for such a small class). I am not URM. Just seeking some opinions....waste of a bid?

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke- now top 10-15%

Post by cjw564 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Hate to dredge up an old topic, but I'm now around a 3.7, which looks to be somewhere between top 10% and top 15% (my previous estimate of top 25% for a 3.65 was pretty conservative).

I'd still like to bid on W&C during OCI, but my GPA would put me somewhere between the 10th to the 25th percentile GPAs of those who received offers (and we had quite a few people getting offers each year, for such a small class). I am not URM. Just seeking some opinions....waste of a bid?
If you want Williams and connolly that bad, you should give it a try - you can waste one bid at your gpa. Like you said, they have hired people with similar stats before so you never know.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:18 pm

Fwiw, I graduated a couple years ago from Duke and had a 3.75 and DLJ going into OCI. W&C was the only OCI interview that I got the distinct sense that I had been completely written off before I even stepped into the room and only one of two or three OCI interviews that I didn't get a callback from. If I recall, they even did a dinner that night BEFORE their OCI interviews and only invited the top half dozen or so kids in the class. Certainly not saying you have no shot, but I'd focus your energy elsewhere.

Also, I completely second the advice that taking the shiny trophy of your most prestigious firm offer isn't always the best move. I ended up picking a firm that I felt I had the best fit for me but wasn't necessarily the most prestigious and I am definitely a good deal happier than a lot of my friends who just took the highest rated vault firm offer they got.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke- now top 10-15%

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Hate to dredge up an old topic, but I'm now around a 3.7, which looks to be somewhere between top 10% and top 15% (my previous estimate of top 25% for a 3.65 was pretty conservative).

I'd still like to bid on W&C during OCI, but my GPA would put me somewhere between the 10th to the 25th percentile GPAs of those who received offers (and we had quite a few people getting offers each year, for such a small class). I am not URM. Just seeking some opinions....waste of a bid?
You can bid W&C near the bottom and still get an interview, so you wouldn't be wasting a slot. Unless you have a great clerkship lined up, or something else that really separates you from the 20-30 people around or above you, though, I wouldn't expect much. It seems to take ~3.8 to catch W&C's attention (and probably more for a good shot at an offer).

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:03 pm

OP: Just graduated this year from Duke. Going into OCI I had a 3.65 and DLJ. I didn't even get invited to the pre-OCI dinner and, obviously, didn't get a call back. That said, I think I bid them like 25 or something and still got an interview bc not many people bid them. Won't hurt to you to try to snag a slot and hit it off with the interviewer. Someone a year ahead of me told me that 3.8+ seemed to be the common theme for people getting callbacks in his class but I know for a fact people with lower GPAs than that in my class got callbacks.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:15 pm

Thanks for the advice and personal anecdotes. Sounds like I need to focus my energies elsewhere. Ah well, a girl/boy can dream =)

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by jbagelboy » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the advice and personal anecdotes. Sounds like I need to focus my energies elsewhere. Ah well, a girl/boy can dream =)
you can still bid on them, you're going to have lots of offers so theres nothing wrong with a couple hail mary's

just don't get hung up on it

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke- now top 10-15%

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:45 pm

Rising 3L at Duke here. Went into OCI last fall in the 3.70-3.75 range and on DLJ, but non-URM male with no WE. W&C has two interviewing rooms at OCI. One's with Peter Kahn (partner, Duke alum, big deal). The other was with a second year associate or something. I'm convinced W&C weeds out the people who get interview spots with them in advance and shunts off those who have no chance to the second room. Anyway, I got the second room and obviously no callback.

That said, I know of a non-DLJ rising 3L who is summering at W&C right now, but she is also URM and has WE and Ivy League UG.

I'd bid it if you want it - why not? Take a shot - but I absolutely wouldn't hold my breath.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:50 pm

Incidentally, does anyone know where the cutoff for top 10% at graduation usually falls? I would guess somewhere above 3.7 but I don't know for sure.

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Re: Williams & Connolly- Top 25% at Duke- now top 10-15%

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Rising 3L at Duke here. Went into OCI last fall in the 3.70-3.75 range and on DLJ, but non-URM male with no WE. W&C has two interviewing rooms at OCI. One's with Peter Kahn (partner, Duke alum, big deal). The other was with a second year associate or something. I'm convinced W&C weeds out the people who get interview spots with them in advance and shunts off those who have no chance to the second room. Anyway, I got the second room and obviously no callback.

That said, I know of a non-DLJ rising 3L who is summering at W&C right now, but she is also URM and has WE and Ivy League UG.

I'd bid it if you want it - why not? Take a shot - but I absolutely wouldn't hold my breath.
OP here. That would definitely throw me off my interview if I noticed it. That's almost insulting. So someone who is charming, prepared, and super interested in room 2 will never have a chance. LOL well I guess there are so many law students that it does come down to numbers at the end of the day.

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