1L Summer in PD office bad for getting a 2L SA? Forum

[november3]

I'm a 1L in a T35, after fall semester ranked top 5%. Spring OCI only had 3 firms out of 19 employers, I got 2 interviews with firms but they both hired 2Ls over 1Ls. I got an offer for the local Public Defender's office and am also working as a summer RA to a prominent professor. In the future I want to do biglaw transactional work, maybe a clerkship first. So I'm planning/hoping to get a 2L SA.
My CSO told me that working as a PD + RA during 1L summer was only marginally better than working only as an RA, and advised me to decline the offer (I only have 10 days left to accept). That at fall OCI I would have to "answer to" why I worked at the PD if I don't want to be a PD. Something tells me that this is off base, and that having the experience in the PD office + the RA job would be better than just spending my summer in PJs doing the RA job.
Basically they said that I should decline the PD offer, and either just be an RA, or spend the spring semester trying for a different job in addition to being an RA.

Thoughts? Wouldn't it be stupid to reject an offer for summer work when I have no other offers other than the RA, or should I listen to CSO and risk something better not coming around?

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't think I agree with your CSO - lots of people do criminal law stuff their 1L summer (because there just aren't that many 1L SAs to go around, especially at a T35). Unless you have a resume that already screams public interest/government and are going to have an uphill battle convincing anyone that you'd ever want to work for a firm, I don't think working for the PD would pose any problems.

Just doing the RA is fine, too, but if you don't have a lot of work experience, I would think it would be better to have a job where you have to show up and report to someone.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to highjack the thread, but are there any negative consequences for 2L SA by taking city or state attorney's office positions? Likely in some civil division (not criminal).

[zot1]

I agree with Nony.

I also personally know a handful of people who did PD first summer and are now in or going to BigLaw.

I think having a PD 1L Summer is the least of a student's problems when getting an SA.

[november3]

I don't think I agree with your CSO - lots of people do criminal law stuff their 1L summer (because there just aren't that many 1L SAs to go around, especially at a T35). Unless you have a resume that already screams public interest/government and are going to have an uphill battle convincing anyone that you'd ever want to work for a firm, I don't think working for the PD would pose any problems.

Just doing the RA is fine, too, but if you don't have a lot of work experience, I would think it would be better to have a job where you have to show up and report to someone.

I worked my way up in retail to management during undergrad. So, if I already have some type of work experience then just doing the RA would be fine? I'm hesitant to take the PD position only because they want the summer + 1 semester part time during 2L, and I'm worried I won't have the time since I plan (hope) to do law review, be a TA, etc.

[zot1]

Retail =/= legal experience.

[november3]

Retail =/= legal experience.

Obviously. They said a lot of "work experience" as in reporting to work. Not legal experience. It's a given that a 1L doesn't have a lot of legal experience. Aside from those came in after being paralegals.

[lavarman84]

I don't think I agree with your CSO - lots of people do criminal law stuff their 1L summer (because there just aren't that many 1L SAs to go around, especially at a T35). Unless you have a resume that already screams public interest/government and are going to have an uphill battle convincing anyone that you'd ever want to work for a firm, I don't think working for the PD would pose any problems.

Just doing the RA is fine, too, but if you don't have a lot of work experience, I would think it would be better to have a job where you have to show up and report to someone.

I worked my way up in retail to management during undergrad. So, if I already have some type of work experience then just doing the RA would be fine? I'm hesitant to take the PD position only because they want the summer + 1 semester part time during 2L, and I'm worried I won't have the time since I plan (hope) to do law review, be a TA, etc.

You could just do the RA. Your grades and interviewing ability are what will matter the most for big law. As long as you have some job in the legal field your 1L summer that you can talk intelligently about, you'll be fine.

I am a 2L at a school ranked about 10-15 spots lower than yours, I worked only as a RA during my 1L summer, and I had no issues getting big law interviews. Even at places that didn't interview at my school (V5 and V10 firms). But I was very close to the top of my class and on law review. So keep your grades up and get law review and you'll do just fine.(assuming you can interview well)

Just be ready to mass mail this summer to firms that don't come to your school's OCI.(if you're not at a NY, Chi, or DC school)

I don't think choosing either option will hurt you. Unless your part time job hurts your grades as a 2L.

[nick417]

I think that is bad advice you received about the PD's office. The saying is it doesn't matter what you do 1 L summer, just that you do something. It holds true here. If you want to do the PD's office, do it. The more interesting things you can talk about during your OCI interviews the better. Sometimes 30 mins go by fast, other times it can be brutal. The PD's office is an interesting topic to talk about and should be an interesting experience I admittedly do not know what or how the PD office utilizes 1 Ls but I know 2 Ls who have done it and enjoyed it (but they were able to speak in court which I doubt 1Ls are allowed to do).

IF you want to do it, then do it. It will not hurt your OCI apps and may even enhance your chances.

[zot1]

Retail =/= legal experience.

Obviously. They said a lot of "work experience" as in reporting to work. Not legal experience. It's a given that a 1L doesn't have a lot of legal experience. Aside from those came in after being paralegals.

You're right, Nony said that. But I still think that you'd be turning down a great opportunity to gain legal experience. RAs are not always about research and writing. Some professors give you 1000 footnotes and tell you to fix them. At the PDs office you will engage in research and writing and will have an opportunity to observe people in court. It is invaluable and not something you learn in retail.

But hey, it seems like you've made your choice. You just want to do the RAship. Then just freaking do that. You don't need TLS permission for that.

[Anonymous User]

I did state attorney generals office 1L summer (all litigation) and ended up at a V10 doing corporate work 2L summer. No one cared or grilled me on my 1L summer job. It doesn't matter what you do 1L summer.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at a T20 and worked at the PD's office my 1L summer and have a 2L SA in NYC Biglaw. Firm jobs for 1Ls are not super common, so working in public interest your 1L summer is fairly normal. During 2L interviews you'll get tons of questions about what you did 1L summer and as long as you can discuss the legal work that you did that is good enough.

[Anonymous User]

I did freaking workers comp my 1L Summer and got big law SA position. Top 50 ish school. Firmly in the camp that 1L summer doesnt matter, just interview well and continue to get good grades.

[bretby]

I did freaking workers comp my 1L Summer and got big law SA position. Top 50 ish school. Firmly in the camp that 1L summer doesnt matter, just interview well and continue to get good grades.

I was under the impression that people who wanted 2L SAs worked for judges rather than in PI their 1L summer - is this not accurate?

[zot1]

I did freaking workers comp my 1L Summer and got big law SA position. Top 50 ish school. Firmly in the camp that 1L summer doesnt matter, just interview well and continue to get good grades.

I was under the impression that people who wanted 2L SAs worked for judges rather than in PI their 1L summer - is this not accurate?

What you do as a 1L matters very little (in terms of employment, not grades). Would a firm prefer to see you externed with a judge? Sure. Would it completely ban you from BigLaw if you didn't? No.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I did freaking workers comp my 1L Summer and got big law SA position. Top 50 ish school. Firmly in the camp that 1L summer doesnt matter, just interview well and continue to get good grades.

I was under the impression that people who wanted 2L SAs worked for judges rather than in PI their 1L summer - is this not accurate?

Many people work for judges their 1L summer, because it's pretty easy to find a judge who will take you, and it's often decent experience. I don't think it's any more a track to a 2L SA than any other 1L summer gig.

[nick417]

I did freaking workers comp my 1L Summer and got big law SA position. Top 50 ish school. Firmly in the camp that 1L summer doesnt matter, just interview well and continue to get good grades.

I was under the impression that people who wanted 2L SAs worked for judges rather than in PI their 1L summer - is this not accurate?

Not entirely accurate; I agree what has been said above. I think that interning for Judges (especially Federal Judges) is what the school pushes upon the top students in the class (I know my school did). Moreover, Fed. Judges tend to hire students with really high grades. Those same students (based upon their grades) are strong candidates for SA positions.

[BigZuck]

I did freaking workers comp my 1L Summer and got big law SA position. Top 50 ish school. Firmly in the camp that 1L summer doesnt matter, just interview well and continue to get good grades.

I was under the impression that people who wanted 2L SAs worked for judges rather than in PI their 1L summer - is this not accurate?

What you do as a 1L matters very little (in terms of employment, not grades). Would a firm prefer to see you externed with a judge? Sure. Would it completely ban you from BigLaw if you didn't? No.

Why would a firm prefer that you intern with a judge?

[Avian]

I did freaking workers comp my 1L Summer and got big law SA position. Top 50 ish school. Firmly in the camp that 1L summer doesnt matter, just interview well and continue to get good grades.

I was under the impression that people who wanted 2L SAs worked for judges rather than in PI their 1L summer - is this not accurate?

Not entirely accurate; I agree what has been said above. I think that interning for Judges (especially Federal Judges) is what the school pushes upon the top students in the class (I know my school did). Moreover, Fed. Judges tend to hire students with really high grades. Those same students (based upon their grades) are strong candidates for SA positions.

Some schools push judicial internships, but I think it has more to do with maintaining good relationships with judges who they hope will hire clerks from the school than whether it looks better at OCI for the student.

[nick417]

I did freaking workers comp my 1L Summer and got big law SA position. Top 50 ish school. Firmly in the camp that 1L summer doesnt matter, just interview well and continue to get good grades.

I was under the impression that people who wanted 2L SAs worked for judges rather than in PI their 1L summer - is this not accurate?

Not entirely accurate; I agree what has been said above. I think that interning for Judges (especially Federal Judges) is what the school pushes upon the top students in the class (I know my school did). Moreover, Fed. Judges tend to hire students with really high grades. Those same students (based upon their grades) are strong candidates for SA positions.

Some schools push judicial internships, but I think it has more to do with maintaining good relationships with judges who they hope will hire clerks from the school than whether it looks better at OCI for the student.

Your point makes sense. But regardless, students with high GPAs are suggested to apply for internships with federal judges for their 1 L summer. And those same students are top candidates for 2 L SA positions. Thus, you probably do see more 2 L SA who interned with federal judges their prior summer over any other internship (not saying interning with federal judges is the majority but it probably is the most common position held).

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, unless the judge has some mad connections where you want to work (and most judges aren't going to exercise those in any serious way for 1L interns), the thing about interning for a judge and future jobs is that interning is pretty career-neutral - it doesn't really put you on a path to any specific kind of work. It's not prosecution so you can go PD later if you want, it's not really PI so you don't look bleeding heart to firms, it's not a firm so you don't look corporate to PI, etc. The one thing is that it's litigation, so not consistent with diehard transactional. But firms aren't going to care because you will probably get experience in research/writing, and there just aren't a lot of opportunities to get transactional experience as a 1L (outside a SA). To the extent you want transactional and can get something pertinent for 1L, firms would probably rather see that than a judicial internship.

(Also, re: the high GPA thing - I think this varies by school; I've seen T14 people talk about getting judicial internships before grades came back. At my school the local judges did want to see grades and the federal judges tended to be grade-conscious, but I don't think that's universal. And the correlation between grades/judicial internship/2L SA is also going to vary a lot depending on what kind of numbers of people get SAs at your school.)

But really, the takeway is that 97% of the time, what you do 1L will be fine for whatever you want to do in the future as long as it's legal and you can talk about it interestingly in a 20-minute interview.

[Anonymous User]

Can attest to doing PD 1L then taking a big law job. If anything, makes the interview interesting because you have cool stories

[Anonymous User]

Worked for the USAO my 1L summer and landed a 2L SA. I occasionally got asked "why big law and not criminal/government/public service work?". Just have a good answer for why big law and why you took the PD job (i.e., litigation experience, get a taste of defense work, etc. etc.). It matters very little what you do 1L summer so long as you have a great way to spin everything that you put on your resume.

Focus more on getting top grades, being personable in interviews, and preparing and over preparing for OCI/the callback process.