Social Security Administration Attorney Adviser Positions Forum

[Manali]

What kind of grades/rank is needed for these positions? Is journal a must? What sort of background are they looking for? Since you're only dealing with federal law, is it OK if you're barred in a different state than the one you work in?

Only relevant experience is assisting homeless clients in applying for SS disability last summer.

[zot1]

Most agencies look for at least top 30% candidates.

Experience in public service is a plus. I'm sure relevant experience helps as well.

Yes, when you're in federal service, you can be barred anywhere.

[bjohnsobf]

I'm currently performing the job can answer whatever you need to know based on my experience. I see you are class of 2017 based on your profile. Your experience will help but SSA hiring is sporadic and largely budget based, the stars have to align I wouldn't change what youre doing based on the hope they are going to be hiring when you graduate. Also an active license is generally required to apply. They don't hire law clerks.

[Manali]

I'm currently performing the job can answer whatever you need to know based on my experience. I see you are class of 2017 based on your profile. Your experience will help but SSA hiring is sporadic and largely budget based, the stars have to align I wouldn't change what youre doing based on the hope they are going to be hiring when you graduate. Also an active license is generally required to apply. They don't hire law clerks.

I'm not on Law Review because I transferred to my current school after the deadline for the write-on competition, but the Dean tells me that I can compete to be on journal for my 3L year. Is it worth the pain for these kinds of positions?

How many hours a week do you work? Is it strictly 40 hours/week? What is a typical day like for an SSA Attorney Adviser?

[encore1101]

My wife is currently a SSA Attorney-Adviser.


She was not on law review, but she was on a secondary journal. I don't recall her grades, but I know it was mostly Bs. Graduated from a NYC regional school (Cardozo, St. John's, Brooklyn). I think the biggest plus factor for her was that she was a writing center tutor in undergrad and law school. From what I gather, they don't care about relevant experience (she has had no PI background), but more interested in your writing skills.

She works 40 hours a week. Her job is to listen to the testimony and evidence presented at the hearing, and turn the ALJ's determination (favorable or unfavorable) into an opinion, based on the evidence and rules governing social security/disability. Seems very low stress. The only issue that arises is when an ALJ's decision is barely/not supported by the record, in which case she has to scrape to find ways to justify the ALJ's determination.

[bjohnsobf]

Everything encore said is right. Its 40 hours a week log on anytime between 6-930 leave 8.5 hours later. There are opportunities for time and a half voluntary overtime. You are a member of the NTEU (union) bargaining group. After the first year you telework from home 3 days per week.

I also transferred didn't attempt to write on law review. I went to a state school just inside the top 50. However. I've met people with much more impressive credentials than me. These positions are all over the country there are 162 Odar offices its seems reasonable to me to believe that the more desirable the location the more competitive. But again hiring is anything but regular they hire in batches all from a single usajobs announcement. Years could go by without hiring or dozens could be hired quickly.

[Manali]

Are these entry-level attorney positions? Or do you need 1-3/3-5 years of experience?

Does trial team or Moot Ct. help?

[Anonymous User]

Are these entry-level attorney positions? Or do you need 1-3/3-5 years of experience?

Does trial team or Moot Ct. help?

It was an entry level position for my wife. She may have had received a boost from her writing experience (as a tutor and she received a CALI for legal writing), and the chief alj at the time was an alumnus.

I don't think either really helps significantly. Moot court MIGHT in that you learn how to write, but from my perspective as an appellate attorney (and my wife has agreed), the writing styles are very different. My writing is geared to be more persuasive, whereas her writing is more matter-of-fact. It may help in the sense that, in both scenarios, you meticulously pore over facts/details of cases.

To add on to bjohnosbf, attorney advisors can also work 4 days a week, instead of 5. If you do, you work 10.5 hour days. The best part about that is that you can combine that with teleworking, which means you'd only go to the office one day per week and you can always have 3 day weekends. Quality of life wise, I'm a little jealous.

edit: sorry, didn't mean to post anon, but this is encore1101.
edit2: your experience helping homeless people file for ssa benefits might be useful in the fact that you know that there's certain criteria that they need to meet in order to be eligible. I don't think its super useful as a practical skill, but moreso for the knowledge that, absent meeting the criteria, they would not be eligible for benefits.

[Manali]

Are these entry-level attorney positions? Or do you need 1-3/3-5 years of experience?

Does trial team or Moot Ct. help?

It was an entry level position for my wife. She may have had received a boost from her writing experience (as a tutor and she received a CALI for legal writing), and the chief alj at the time was an alumnus.

I don't think either really helps significantly. Moot court MIGHT in that you learn how to write, but from my perspective as an appellate attorney (and my wife has agreed), the writing styles are very different. My writing is geared to be more persuasive, whereas her writing is more matter-of-fact. It may help in the sense that, in both scenarios, you meticulously pore over facts/details of cases.

To add on to bjohnosbf, attorney advisors can also work 4 days a week, instead of 5. If you do, you work 10.5 hour days. The best part about that is that you can combine that with teleworking, which means you'd only go to the office one day per week and you can always have 3 day weekends. Quality of life wise, I'm a little jealous.

edit: sorry, didn't mean to post anon, but this is encore1101.
edit2: your experience helping homeless people file for ssa benefits might be useful in the fact that you know that there's certain criteria that they need to meet in order to be eligible. I don't think its super useful as a practical skill, but moreso for the knowledge that, absent meeting the criteria, they would not be eligible for benefits.

Encore, what's the background check like for SSA Attorney Adviser positions? Is it just FBI fingerprint or do they look at mental illness, school discipline, etc.? How long does it take to get cleared?

[encore1101]

Are these entry-level attorney positions? Or do you need 1-3/3-5 years of experience?

Does trial team or Moot Ct. help?

It was an entry level position for my wife. She may have had received a boost from her writing experience (as a tutor and she received a CALI for legal writing), and the chief alj at the time was an alumnus.

I don't think either really helps significantly. Moot court MIGHT in that you learn how to write, but from my perspective as an appellate attorney (and my wife has agreed), the writing styles are very different. My writing is geared to be more persuasive, whereas her writing is more matter-of-fact. It may help in the sense that, in both scenarios, you meticulously pore over facts/details of cases.

To add on to bjohnosbf, attorney advisors can also work 4 days a week, instead of 5. If you do, you work 10.5 hour days. The best part about that is that you can combine that with teleworking, which means you'd only go to the office one day per week and you can always have 3 day weekends. Quality of life wise, I'm a little jealous.

edit: sorry, didn't mean to post anon, but this is encore1101.
edit2: your experience helping homeless people file for ssa benefits might be useful in the fact that you know that there's certain criteria that they need to meet in order to be eligible. I don't think its super useful as a practical skill, but moreso for the knowledge that, absent meeting the criteria, they would not be eligible for benefits.

Encore, what's the background check like for SSA Attorney Adviser positions? Is it just FBI fingerprint or do they look at mental illness, school discipline, etc.? How long does it take to get cleared?

I'll ask and get back to you. bjohnosbf may know firsthand, though

[bjohnsobf]

Its FBI and finger print. You have to be fingerprint ed to get a government ID (PIV) card. Honestly my bar association character and fitness seemed to be more onerous I would imagine a licensed attorney would be able to pass

[encore1101]

wife:
"I don't remember abt specific questions like illness or discipline. But you have to provide addresses of people who have known you for a certain number of years and they send them a form to fill out and sign. You list all past employment, contact info of who can verify. Addresses of all places you've lived. And a question abt drug use"

[Manali]

What are typical exit options after 2-3 years at an Attorney Adviser, encore?

Also, what is the pay like?

[encore1101]

What are typical exit options after 2-3 years at an Attorney Adviser, encore?

Also, what is the pay like?

Exit options, I'm not sure. My wife still works there and I believe she wants to go for ALJ position, so she may be there for a while.

Pay depends on your region as the feds give you a COL allowance. In NYC, after about 4 years of working, my wife makes about 85k plus a yearly bonus.

[Anonymous User]

What are typical exit options after 2-3 years at an Attorney Adviser, encore?

Also, what is the pay like?

Exit options, I'm not sure. My wife still works there and I believe she wants to go for ALJ position, so she may be there for a while.

Pay depends on your region as the feds give you a COL allowance. In NYC, after about 4 years of working, my wife makes about 85k plus a yearly bonus.

What GS level is she?

[zot1]

What are typical exit options after 2-3 years at an Attorney Adviser, encore?

Also, what is the pay like?

Exit options, I'm not sure. My wife still works there and I believe she wants to go for ALJ position, so she may be there for a while.

Pay depends on your region as the feds give you a COL allowance. In NYC, after about 4 years of working, my wife makes about 85k plus a yearly bonus.

What GS level is she?

[encore1101]

12

[zot1]

12

After 4 years??!!!! She could be a 14 by now at other agencies depending on experience. I know this isn't the point of the post but couldn't help to comment on this.

[encore1101]

12

After 4 years??!!!! She could be a 14 by now at other agencies depending on experience. I know this isn't the point of the post but couldn't help to comment on this.

She started late of 2012, and its (very early) 2016. I rounded up, but its probably closer to 3. She's also GS 12 step 2

[zot1]

12

After 4 years??!!!! She could be a 14 by now at other agencies depending on experience. I know this isn't the point of the post but couldn't help to comment on this.

She started late of 2012, and its (very early) 2016. I rounded up, but its probably closer to 3. She's also GS 12 step 2

Even then she could still be at the very least a 13 somewhere else.

I guess my point for future readers is that agencies may vary in promotional opportunities and that's something to consider when picking one because it make a huge difference.

[Anonymous User]

12

After 4 years??!!!! She could be a 14 by now at other agencies depending on experience. I know this isn't the point of the post but couldn't help to comment on this.

She started late of 2012, and its (very early) 2016. I rounded up, but its probably closer to 3. She's also GS 12 step 2

So I assume pay is the same for all GS 12 step 2, no matter the agency, in NYC?

[zot1]

12

After 4 years??!!!! She could be a 14 by now at other agencies depending on experience. I know this isn't the point of the post but couldn't help to comment on this.

She started late of 2012, and its (very early) 2016. I rounded up, but its probably closer to 3. She's also GS 12 step 2

So I assume pay is the same for all GS 12 step 2, no matter the agency, in NYC?

It is. Except that if she started in 2012, it is odd she's also just a step 2. At the very least, she should have gotten to step 3 already (unless there were performance issues that delayed her increase) and should be waiting for step 4 later this year.

This all sounds very odd. She should have progressed a lot faster at least with the steps.

Grade wise, she could have been at higher grade with another agency. I don't know if she loves it there but I would have transferred already.

[Anonymous User]

12

After 4 years??!!!! She could be a 14 by now at other agencies depending on experience. I know this isn't the point of the post but couldn't help to comment on this.

She started late of 2012, and its (very early) 2016. I rounded up, but its probably closer to 3. She's also GS 12 step 2

So I assume pay is the same for all GS 12 step 2, no matter the agency, in NYC?

It is. Except that if she started in 2012, it is odd she's also just a step 2. At the very least, she should have gotten to step 3 already (unless there were performance issues that delayed her increase) and should be waiting for step 4 later this year.

This all sounds very odd. She should have progressed a lot faster at least with the steps.

Grade wise, she could have been at higher grade with another agency. I don't know if she loves it there but I would have transferred already.

How quickly do you proceed with steps? like one step every few months? Do you have to go through each step of previous GS level to get to the next GS level?

[zot1]

You can look this up through the opm website. But you get step 2 after a year then step 3 after another year and I think with step 4 you need to wait two years after step 3.

For attorneys you do not need to wait to get through all the steps to advance to the next level. In an ideal world, you can get promoted to the next grade after a year. As you get to 14 or 15 there may not be positions open (this will vary though agency) so you may have to wait or you can just look for a 14 position open somewhere else.

My point here is that you can and should advance a lot further than 12 step 2 in over three years. Poor performance can definitely delay all of this as it should. But if you're killing it and not getting promoted, jump ship, I say.

[encore1101]

I'd love to see what you're referring to. I've seen my wife's evals and statistics and she's consistently over 100% in terms of office productivity.