Pursue Biglaw or Stay Put? Forum

[Ben2013]

I wanted to get some feedback on experiences in biglaw, particularly those who have lateraled to biglaw from a non-biglaw firm. I am currently at a firm where I have seen multiple associates with similar or lesser qualifications than myself lateral to biglaw firms. I do not know if I want to pursue a lateral biglaw position or stay where I am.

As some background, I graduated law school in 2014. The firm I currently work at has over 20 offices in about 10 difference states, and continues to grow. Attorney headcount over 500. My office has about 50. The firm's practice in large part centers on insurance defense, however it is far from the simple red car blue car insurance defense type work. I mainly handle products, premises, and construction cases. I get some of my own cases, significant client contact, and good court/depo experience. The partner I mainly work for could not be better. I can ask questions without fear of sounding like an idiot, I can give my opinion on cases, my whereabouts are never questioned, I could not even think of a complaint. My billable requirement is 2,200, but with the type and amount of work I am given, hitting my hours has never been an issue. My stress levels are usually pretty low. My normal day I get in around 8:30 and leave around 6:30. I am in a city I would compare to Indianapolis in terms of living costs/salary. The starting salary at my location is 80k. I received an 8k raise in my first full year at the firm, and am currently at 90k.

Entry level Biglaw salaries in my city range from around 120k-145k My desire to join a more white shoe type firm is based on more than just money. However, money is certainly a consideration as I do have six figure law school debt, which I pay through IBR. More so than the money though, I want to work on the highest profile cases, for the highest profile clients, and practice against the best attorneys. I at times look at my current job as playing in the minor leagues for a sport. Sure you can make a good living at it, but you always wonder if you are capable of succeeding at a higher level.

I am really having a hard time deciding if I want to pursue a position in biglaw. Obviously this is all assuming I could attain such a position, but as I said I have seen many use my firm as a stepping stone to biglaw. I am more so just looking for feedback and to see some experiences others have had. Like I said, on the one hand I want to continue pushing myself in my career, but on the other hand I know how fortunate I am to be in the position I am right now.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

[Tls2016]

I wanted to get some feedback on experiences in biglaw, particularly those who have lateraled to biglaw from a non-biglaw firm. I am currently at a firm where I have seen multiple associates with similar or lesser qualifications than myself lateral to biglaw firms. I do not know if I want to pursue a lateral biglaw position or stay where I am.

As some background, I graduated law school in 2014. The firm I currently work at has over 20 offices in about 10 difference states, and continues to grow. Attorney headcount over 500. My office has about 50. The firm's practice in large part centers on insurance defense, however it is far from the simple red car blue car insurance defense type work. I mainly handle products, premises, and construction cases. I get some of my own cases, significant client contact, and good court/depo experience. The partner I mainly work for could not be better. I can ask questions without fear of sounding like an idiot, I can give my opinion on cases, my whereabouts are never questioned, I could not even think of a complaint. My billable requirement is 2,200, but with the type and amount of work I am given, hitting my hours has never been an issue. My stress levels are usually pretty low. My normal day I get in around 8:30 and leave around 6:30. I am in a city I would compare to Indianapolis in terms of living costs/salary. The starting salary at my location is 80k. I received an 8k raise in my first full year at the firm, and am currently at 90k.

Entry level Biglaw salaries in my city range from around 120k-145k My desire to join a more white shoe type firm is based on more than just money. However, money is certainly a consideration as I do have six figure law school debt, which I pay through IBR. More so than the money though, I want to work on the highest profile cases, for the highest profile clients, and practice against the best attorneys. I at times look at my current job as playing in the minor leagues for a sport. Sure you can make a good living at it, but you always wonder if you are capable of succeeding at a higher level.

I am really having a hard time deciding if I want to pursue a position in biglaw. Obviously this is all assuming I could attain such a position, but as I said I have seen many use my firm as a stepping stone to biglaw. I am more so just looking for feedback and to see some experiences others have had. Like I said, on the one hand I want to continue pushing myself in my career, but on the other hand I know how fortunate I am to be in the position I am right now.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

I would stay put if I had a job with regular, manageable hours, solid experience, a great boss and low stress in law. If you are happy there, what are you looking for?

I can't comment on the money difference, if you need it, that's another issue. I can't tell how much more that will be in your city, it sounds like a significant amount,but you will be giving up a job where you sound happy for an unknown, most likely higher stress place.

Chasing prestige is all consuming in law. I wouldnt get on that path if you aren't already. Maybe keep your job that you seem to enjoy and do other things with your life that give you a feeling of accomplishment, status and prestige. I'm sure there is some junior comittee of a local museum or hospital or not for profit board you could join for starters.

[NYbarguy]

I would stay put if I had a job with regular, manageable hours, solid experience, a great boss and low stress in law. If you are happy there, what are you looking for?

I can't comment on the money difference, if you need it, that's another issue. I can't tell how much more that will be in your city, it sounds like a significant amount,but you will be giving up a job where you sound happy for an unknown, most likely higher stress place.

Chasing prestige is all consuming in law. I wouldnt get on that path if you aren't already. Maybe keep your job that you seem to enjoy and do other things with your life that give you a feeling of accomplishment, status and prestige. I'm sure there is some junior comittee of a local museum or hospital or not for profit board you could join for starters.

I agree with this. You are in a very good situation right now, and I don't think you will be better off in biglaw, apart from the money. This may very well end up being a classic case of chasing prestige and money at the expense of your wellbeing/happiness. It also seems like you're getting very good work experience, so I would definitely stick with it.

[Tls2016]

I would stay put if I had a job with regular, manageable hours, solid experience, a great boss and low stress in law. If you are happy there, what are you looking for?

I can't comment on the money difference, if you need it, that's another issue. I can't tell how much more that will be in your city, it sounds like a significant amount,but you will be giving up a job where you sound happy for an unknown, most likely higher stress place.

Chasing prestige is all consuming in law. I wouldnt get on that path if you aren't already. Maybe keep your job that you seem to enjoy and do other things with your life that give you a feeling of accomplishment, status and prestige. I'm sure there is some junior comittee of a local museum or hospital or not for profit board you could join for starters.

I agree with this. You are in a very good situation right now, and I don't think you will be better off in biglaw, apart from the money. This may very well end up being a classic case of chasing prestige and money at the expense of your wellbeing/happiness. It also seems like you're getting very good work experience, so I would definitely stick with it.

Also,based on my experience of being a prestige whore and being around other prestige whores, if you truly valued prestige above all else, you would just be going for that "better" job without questioning it. That you already doubt the prestige is worth it shows you have a more balanced outlook on your life.

Like I said, going because of more money isn't something I feel I can address. Just don't end up in a miserable situation for more money when you are currently in a good spot.

[Anonymous User]

Please stay put. I worked at a firm like this my 1L summer. It was ID type work, but awesome. Complex enough not to be boring, but the cases were small enough with little discovery for attorneys to get significant experience. Hours were about what you mentioned at that firm. Went to a bigger firm after receiving an offer there and have not necessarily regretted my decision, but I do dream about the day I can return to my first firm, and start doing things that I really want to do with my career. HTH. Don't chase the money or prestige.

[jimmythecatdied6]

Stay put. You may work on "cooler" cases, but that generally means you will do crappier work.

[Anonymous User]

I would echo the vote to stay put. I previous worked at goldberg segalla, which is pretty similar to what you described (a bit smaller), but made a couple of moves, and am now in BigLaw (doing a totally different practice).

I made the move for money, which is good no doubt, but mostly just affords me the luxury of making bad choices with it. Many studies show that income beyond about $85K doesn't increase happiness, and while that doesn't take into account student loan debt, you're on IBR and your income will continue to rise. You're in a stable situation, without much worry about where the economy is going to go, and at a firm where people trust you. This is a good spot. This isn't like going from AAA to MLB: the rewards of BigLaw aren't nearly so great.

I guess the best argument for making the jump is that you probably won't have too hard a time going back if the time comes, but those are lost years of building relationships at your current firm all the same. If the work is interesting to you, and you like the people you're working with, then I wouldn't do it. Don't make the jump for the money or some sort of nonsense prestige. That's a race you can't win.

[Ben2013]

Thanks to all for responding! Very valid points made by everyone.

[ballouttacontrol]

That's an enormous pay bump. I would probs take it, personally. I would not do it for "prestige"

[Anonymous User]

I started in biglaw and lateraled to a small firm when I moved cities. Sometimes, I have thoughts similar to yours - I can do better than this firm, I can get back into biglaw and work for shinier clients on shinier cases, earn more money and have more prestige, and maybe better exit options. However, the more sensible part of me replies - the hours are better, I have partners that actually invest in my development whereas in biglaw I'm just a nameless cog, the sophistication of the work is similar, my exit options are based on my work experience more than the name of my firm, etc.

Overall, I think it's best to find a place where you can develop your skills and do the work you like with strong mentorship. You seem to have that already, and it's risky to roll the die and see if you can get that at another firm. If you are still interested in moving, I suggest you conduct your search very carefully. Finding a good fit and people that will support you is key when lateraling - you have to ask a lot of questions and meet a lot of people at each firm to gauge this.

Do you know any of the former associates at your firm who lateraled to biglaw well enough to contact them and ask some candid questions? Perhaps you can get some information from them, such as why they left and how they feel about working at their new firm versus your current firm. That might help in sorting through your thoughts.

[englawyer]

If you are getting your own cases and having significant interaction with clients as an associate, it is worth staying. Long term stability in a firm depends on having a reliable client base that considers you their attorney of choice when litigation/transactions come around. It is also an excellent sign that your firm is growing. Growth means that as new clients come in, there is a compelling case for promoting more partners to handle the ever-growing list of clients.

In biglaw, developing a client base is extremely hard for associates. The cases are often huge and there are layers of people above you in the pecking order (senior associates / of counsel / junior partners) who want to take all the client contact for themselves. Realistically, in most cases, you need a major rainmaker to support your partnership nomination by promising to use you as a deputy/case-manager (as junior partner) which provides a springboard for running matters and actually getting a client base. The path to stability is long, as you need to work up through all the different levels of bureaucracy, and risky, as others in the firm are interested in the same goal and may edge you out and develop the necessary relationships to make the career work.

It sounds like you are already in that biglaw junior-partner type role at your firm and a long-term path is within reach. If you switch, you are going to put all of that at risk and there is a high chance you will not find long-term stability in biglaw. If you stay at your firm and make partner, you will likely make more money and have more stability in the long term.