What's going on in Texas?

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:55 pm

nealric wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
My biggest takeaways:
1. Holy crap how were 3 of the 10 largest firms in the country based in Houston?


Some of it had to do with the peculiar banking laws in Texas until the collapse in the 80s. Basically, Texas severely restricted out-of state banks, which meant that Texas banks had the whole state to themselves (the article kind of alludes to a bank charter as being a license to print money). They got rich off oil and gas finance until lose lending standards caused a financial crisis (which actually began prior to the 80s oil crash but went totally pear-shaped afterwards). The law firms kind of rode the coat-tails of the banks upwards in the 60s, 70s, and early 80s because the volume and nature of the deals more or less demanded full-service expertise that small firms couldn't offer. Effectively all of the large Texas banks were gone or merged out of existence by the early 90s, but the law firms survived by courting the foreign and out-of-state banks who had the opportunity to enter a bit of a vacuum.

The insularity of the Texas market at the time also had something to do with it. Texas companies only hired Texas law firms, and the state had very strong growth compared to other parts of the country.


Another interesting historical perspective on the Dallas legal market: http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d ... -law-firms

Most interesting to me was: "For now, Dallas is still up for grabs, though a number of observers think the day is coming when three or four firms will dominate. Those firms will be large-200-plus - and full-service (with a national and international practice)." This sort of happened, and then when Johnson & Swanson and Jenkens & Gilchrist both imploded, and the Houston firms and then the national firms moved in, we've sort of gone the other way with a dozen or so firms jockeying for position.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:05 pm

FWIW, I heard last week that NRF Dallas no offered about 1/3 of their summers.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:FWIW, I heard last week that NRF Dallas no offered about 1/3 of their summers.

Idk if they're hiring way less this year or they hate smu but NRF only did a half day at OCI and basically every other firm did a full day

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:19 pm

How were the offers at V&E?

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:FWIW, I heard last week that NRF Dallas no offered about 1/3 of their summers.


Can anyone else confirm this?

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How were the offers at V&E?

V&E Dallas specifically.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:FWIW, I heard last week that NRF Dallas no offered about 1/3 of their summers.


Can anyone else confirm this?


I can confirm. Idk about the rest of the offices, but about 1/3 of the class was no offered in Dallas. 2 of them were rising 2Ls, out of the 4 total rising 2L summers. The rest of the no offers were rising 3Ls, obviously.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How were the offers at V&E?

V&E Dallas specifically.


I know VE Houston was 100% and there were a couple Dallas no offers, but from what I have heard, well deserved.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:07 pm

quote="Anonymous User"]
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How were the offers at V&E?

V&E Dallas specifically.


I know VE Houston was 100% and there were a couple Dallas no offers, but from what I have heard, well deserved.[/quote]

CB with VE Houston coming up. Any more info on what happened that made the no offers well deserved?

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:quote="Anonymous User"]
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How were the offers at V&E?

V&E Dallas specifically.


I know VE Houston was 100% and there were a couple Dallas no offers, but from what I have heard, well deserved.


CB with VE Houston coming up. Any more info on what happened that made the no offers well deserved?[/quote]

Also interested in this. Basically my only trepidation with VE is that they traditionally (although not this year apparently in H) throw out no-offers willy-nilly

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:13 pm

I heard from a reputable source that V&E has been conducting stealth layoffs in its hardest hit corporate groups.

NRF has been doing terribly and has gotten a ton of flak on ATL recently, so not surprised about the no offers.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I heard from a reputable source that V&E has been conducting stealth layoffs in its hardest hit corporate groups.

NRF has been doing terribly and has gotten a ton of flak on ATL recently, so not surprised about the no offers.


Yea it's not a secret that NRF has been reportedly struggling. This, however, is on a different level. Hopefully the no-offered Summer's had the chance to split.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I heard from a reputable source that V&E has been conducting stealth layoffs in its hardest hit corporate groups.

NRF has been doing terribly and has gotten a ton of flak on ATL recently, so not surprised about the no offers.


Have also heard the same thing re VE. Also know some NRF associates (corporate) who have been horribly slow and looking for exits bc they see the writing on the wall.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How were the offers at V&E?

V&E Dallas specifically.


I know VE Houston was 100% and there were a couple Dallas no offers, but from what I have heard, well deserved.


Can this anon please please please provide more info on the Dallas no offers?

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How were the offers at V&E?

V&E Dallas specifically.


I know VE Houston was 100% and there were a couple Dallas no offers, but from what I have heard, well deserved.


Can this anon please please please provide more info on the Dallas no offers?

+1

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I heard from a reputable source that V&E has been conducting stealth layoffs in its hardest hit corporate groups.

NRF has been doing terribly and has gotten a ton of flak on ATL recently, so not surprised about the no offers.


Have also heard the same thing re VE. Also know some NRF associates (corporate) who have been horribly slow and looking for exits bc they see the writing on the wall.



Your "reputable source" is not very reputable. This is not happening (in Houston at least). I cannot attest to other offices, but I don't think they are big enough for many stealth layoffs. The Houston office is having an insanely busy year currently. But I am sure under performing/under billing associates are told to start looking here and there - does that count as stealth layoffs? If so, just know every firm does it a couple times a year.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I heard from a reputable source that V&E has been conducting stealth layoffs in its hardest hit corporate groups.

NRF has been doing terribly and has gotten a ton of flak on ATL recently, so not surprised about the no offers.


Have also heard the same thing re VE. Also know some NRF associates (corporate) who have been horribly slow and looking for exits bc they see the writing on the wall.



Your "reputable source" is not very reputable. This is not happening (in Houston at least). I cannot attest to other offices, but I don't think they are big enough for many stealth layoffs. The Houston office is having an insanely busy year currently. But I am sure under performing/under billing associates are told to start looking here and there - does that count as stealth layoffs? If so, just know every firm does it a couple times a year.


Not the same anon, but can concur I've heard the same thing about VE and NRF. I declined CBs with both--not worth the risk.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:04 am

I'm the anon who confirmed the 1/3 of no offers at NRF Dallas. With the exception of maybe 1, I can confirm they were not well deserved. Definitely surprising.

I'd be interested to know what the no offer rate was at other NRF offices.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I heard from a reputable source that V&E has been conducting stealth layoffs in its hardest hit corporate groups.

NRF has been doing terribly and has gotten a ton of flak on ATL recently, so not surprised about the no offers.


Have also heard the same thing re VE. Also know some NRF associates (corporate) who have been horribly slow and looking for exits bc they see the writing on the wall.



Your "reputable source" is not very reputable. This is not happening (in Houston at least). I cannot attest to other offices, but I don't think they are big enough for many stealth layoffs. The Houston office is having an insanely busy year currently. But I am sure under performing/under billing associates are told to start looking here and there - does that count as stealth layoffs? If so, just know every firm does it a couple times a year.


Not the same anon, but can concur I've heard the same thing about VE and NRF. I declined CBs with both--not worth the risk.


I am the anon 2 above, let me just confirm - I was saying the V&E stealth layoff rumor is not true. I have no clue what is going on at NRF, but if you want corporate, you are not going there anyways, so I figured people got my point.

In any case, I don't blame anyone for not taking callbacks at a specific place, I can see why people would be more cautious with the Houston market with energy down. In reality though, most of the corporate groups in Houston (at the top shops) seem pretty busy. You can avoid VE, but VE/BB/Latham are still the best options for corporate work in Houston, and BB Houston had a much higher no offer rate than VE from this summer in Houston.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I heard from a reputable source that V&E has been conducting stealth layoffs in its hardest hit corporate groups.

NRF has been doing terribly and has gotten a ton of flak on ATL recently, so not surprised about the no offers.


Have also heard the same thing re VE. Also know some NRF associates (corporate) who have been horribly slow and looking for exits bc they see the writing on the wall.



Your "reputable source" is not very reputable. This is not happening (in Houston at least). I cannot attest to other offices, but I don't think they are big enough for many stealth layoffs. The Houston office is having an insanely busy year currently. But I am sure under performing/under billing associates are told to start looking here and there - does that count as stealth layoffs? If so, just know every firm does it a couple times a year.


Not the same anon, but can concur I've heard the same thing about VE and NRF. I declined CBs with both--not worth the risk.


I am the anon 2 above, let me just confirm - I was saying the V&E stealth layoff rumor is not true. I have no clue what is going on at NRF, but if you want corporate, you are not going there anyways, so I figured people got my point.

In any case, I don't blame anyone for not taking callbacks at a specific place, I can see why people would be more cautious with the Houston market with energy down. In reality though, most of the corporate groups in Houston (at the top shops) seem pretty busy. You can avoid VE, but VE/BB/Latham are still the best options for corporate work in Houston, and BB Houston had a much higher no offer rate than VE from this summer in Houston.


I have a friend at V&E who said his corporate partner told him to expect to be slow until oil rebounds. There may be a few people that are still pre-downturn level busy, but my impression is from talking with friends there that unless you're one of those people (who are selected largely based on who they bro out with) you aren't getting great experience. Also have heard from multiple people of stealth layoffs at all offices, not just Houston. Just because they didn't no offer a ton of people, doesn't mean that those folks will have good work once they get there. It means they can afford their salaries and that they don't want a bad reputation in the market place because of high no offers. They got a lot of flack last summer for what a lot of people thought was a high no offer/cold offer rate, and probably just don't want to do that again.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I heard from a reputable source that V&E has been conducting stealth layoffs in its hardest hit corporate groups.

NRF has been doing terribly and has gotten a ton of flak on ATL recently, so not surprised about the no offers.


Have also heard the same thing re VE. Also know some NRF associates (corporate) who have been horribly slow and looking for exits bc they see the writing on the wall.



Your "reputable source" is not very reputable. This is not happening (in Houston at least). I cannot attest to other offices, but I don't think they are big enough for many stealth layoffs. The Houston office is having an insanely busy year currently. But I am sure under performing/under billing associates are told to start looking here and there - does that count as stealth layoffs? If so, just know every firm does it a couple times a year.


Not the same anon, but can concur I've heard the same thing about VE and NRF. I declined CBs with both--not worth the risk.


I am the anon 2 above, let me just confirm - I was saying the V&E stealth layoff rumor is not true. I have no clue what is going on at NRF, but if you want corporate, you are not going there anyways, so I figured people got my point.

In any case, I don't blame anyone for not taking callbacks at a specific place, I can see why people would be more cautious with the Houston market with energy down. In reality though, most of the corporate groups in Houston (at the top shops) seem pretty busy. You can avoid VE, but VE/BB/Latham are still the best options for corporate work in Houston, and BB Houston had a much higher no offer rate than VE from this summer in Houston.


I have a friend at V&E who said his corporate partner told him to expect to be slow until oil rebounds. There may be a few people that are still pre-downturn level busy, but my impression is from talking with friends there that unless you're one of those people (who are selected largely based on who they bro out with) you aren't getting great experience. Also have heard from multiple people of stealth layoffs at all offices, not just Houston. Just because they didn't no offer a ton of people, doesn't mean that those folks will have good work once they get there. It means they can afford their salaries and that they don't want a bad reputation in the market place because of high no offers. They got a lot of flack last summer for what a lot of people thought was a high no offer/cold offer rate, and probably just don't want to do that again.


Again, I am only talking about Houston. Do your "friends" work there, or is this another random "I heard a friend of a friend say"...

The Houston office is having a great year business wise (supposedly on pace for a record year), 100% summer offer, first TX firm to match 180k, there are no stealth layoffs (except maybe a couple under performers which definitely are not "stealth"). You're right, you should avoid.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How were the offers at V&E?

V&E Dallas specifically.


I know VE Houston was 100% and there were a couple Dallas no offers, but from what I have heard, well deserved.


Can this anon please please please provide more info on the Dallas no offers?

+1


One was a 1L. Offered/accepted 1L summer gig before grades. Turns out grades were awful and didn't get much better second semester. The other was a 2L. Work was terrible. Like really terrible.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:45 pm

For those of you who know what is going on in the Houston legal market, what are your thoughts on VE v. KE v. Latham for Houston transactional work?

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For those of you who know what is going on in the Houston legal market, what are your thoughts on VE v. KE v. Latham for Houston transactional work?


Those are the three strongest transactional practices in town - honestly, I would pick where I think I'll fit in best culturally. You won't make a bad choice with any of them.

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Re: What's going on in Texas?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I heard from a reputable source that V&E has been conducting stealth layoffs in its hardest hit corporate groups.

NRF has been doing terribly and has gotten a ton of flak on ATL recently, so not surprised about the no offers.


Have also heard the same thing re VE. Also know some NRF associates (corporate) who have been horribly slow and looking for exits bc they see the writing on the wall.



Your "reputable source" is not very reputable. This is not happening (in Houston at least). I cannot attest to other offices, but I don't think they are big enough for many stealth layoffs. The Houston office is having an insanely busy year currently. But I am sure under performing/under billing associates are told to start looking here and there - does that count as stealth layoffs? If so, just know every firm does it a couple times a year.


Not the same anon, but can concur I've heard the same thing about VE and NRF. I declined CBs with both--not worth the risk.


I am the anon 2 above, let me just confirm - I was saying the V&E stealth layoff rumor is not true. I have no clue what is going on at NRF, but if you want corporate, you are not going there anyways, so I figured people got my point.

In any case, I don't blame anyone for not taking callbacks at a specific place, I can see why people would be more cautious with the Houston market with energy down. In reality though, most of the corporate groups in Houston (at the top shops) seem pretty busy. You can avoid VE, but VE/BB/Latham are still the best options for corporate work in Houston, and BB Houston had a much higher no offer rate than VE from this summer in Houston.


I have a friend at V&E who said his corporate partner told him to expect to be slow until oil rebounds. There may be a few people that are still pre-downturn level busy, but my impression is from talking with friends there that unless you're one of those people (who are selected largely based on who they bro out with) you aren't getting great experience. Also have heard from multiple people of stealth layoffs at all offices, not just Houston. Just because they didn't no offer a ton of people, doesn't mean that those folks will have good work once they get there. It means they can afford their salaries and that they don't want a bad reputation in the market place because of high no offers. They got a lot of flack last summer for what a lot of people thought was a high no offer/cold offer rate, and probably just don't want to do that again.


Again, I am only talking about Houston. Do your "friends" work there, or is this another random "I heard a friend of a friend say"...

The Houston office is having a great year business wise (supposedly on pace for a record year), 100% summer offer, first TX firm to match 180k, there are no stealth layoffs (except maybe a couple under performers which definitely are not "stealth"). You're right, you should avoid.

First point -- I'm at one of BB/LW/KE in securities/corporate -- about every other deal I'm on is across from V&E. I think all of the top corporate shops in Houston are seeing increased activity. I know my May through August has been hell, as for many other associates in/around my class year.

Again, I'm not at V&E, but I'll still say that when it comes to securities/corporate work in the energy industry, I'll give them their props.
Go check out Texas LawBook and look at their deal count for M&A and Securites for 1st half of 2016 (http://texaslawbook.net/corp-deal-tracker-exclusive-top-firms-lawyers-vie-for-work-in-tight-deal-market/ (login required). Granted, all firms are a bit down from the highs of 2014, but V&E is still very much in/leading the game. I don't know the total number of corporate/securities partners and attorneys at V&E, so you can keep that in mind when comparing firms (i.e., LW/KE have around ~80 or so in its office (and that includes their finance/bankruptcy folks), and V&E has [X] in corporate, so LW/KE won't have the bandwidth to work on the same number of corporate/securities deals).

Second point - I'm consistently surprised about how people act so shocked every year at the number of no-offers from NRF. Their Dallas office has consistently no-offered between 25-33+% of their class. Haven't looked lately at Houston's numbers, but you can check on NALP directory. Morale of the story: unless you're dying to do NRF litigation and have a second half split lined up, don't go to NRF for your summer. They're not a firm that just gives no-offers because they're "well-deserved"--it's a systematic thing. At least for corporate, there's enough stronger firms out there that give 90-100% offers each year that it's silly to gamble for a full-time offer a firm that's seen its better days.



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