1st year major market Corp - Consistently doing shitty job Forum

[Johann]

if youre doing fine work for partners, i doubt youre fucked. problem is, not looking to lateral now is a career killer so the risk is huge. if youre facts are right that your work has been sloppy for seniors but good for partners, 97% you arent fired and have at least another year at the firm. betting on your career is scary as shit because the alternative might be losing everything - biglaw, in house opportunities, T14 pedigree, etc. where if youre wrong and blindsided you might find yourself working doc review in 6 months.

[rpupkin]

if youre doing fine work for partners, i doubt youre fucked.

If it were just a few associates (or even a partner) who was giving the OP a hard time, then I'd agree with you. But the firm had HR sit in the room with the OP while someone else explained performance problems. You don't do that unless you're creating a record for a firing.

Look, if a partner scheduled a meeting alone with the OP and said "you need to improve your work quality," that would be disconcerting but not necessarily a huge deal for a first year. But the presence of HR is the key warning sign here--that's why the OP should be very, very concerned.

[Desert Fox]

OP are you somebody who would make a credible discrimination claim?

[Johann]

no senior associate is going to tell a partner a junior associate sucks without knowing the partner thinks they suck too. its an assignment giver who probably was like shit i dont have any assignments for this guy right now because a senior told me to avoid him. if youre doing good work for a partner, you could basically tell a senior to fuck off and the senior's hands are tied bc the senior just looks like someone bitching unless the partner opens the dialogue with "junior associate really sucks huh."

also, biglaw doesnt need to create a record for a firing - it's all at will. almost all firings in biglaw are completely out of nowhere where youre doing fine until you have a review and they tell you to find something else in the next 3 months. and the partners prefer it this way so that there's minimal awkwardness.

[Johann]

i think its a dumb risk to take, but i think OP has at least 1 year left of time.

[Anonymous User]

also, biglaw doesnt need to create a record for a firing - it's all at will.

Wouldn't the answer to

OP are you somebody who would make a credible discrimination claim?

be relevant as to whether it was prudent for HR to be there

[cheaptilts]

^ me

[Desert Fox]

The reason the assignment coordinator was involved is because people are telling him not to staff OP on their cases.

OP has to leave. Has to.

[dailygrind]

I think you should generally be eyeing your lateral options to get a feel for how long it would take to land somewhere else. 3 months is not a lot of time, and this is pretty dangerous shit to gamble with.

You also need to figure out what is going wrong. It is like step number 1 for you. You are implying that you do not have substantive skills and people expect you to have substantive skills - this seems crazy to me. First years don't know shit and aren't expected to know shit. They're just expected to be diligent and available. People either have unfair expectations of you or you are mischaracterizing your faults.

[Anonymous User]

The reason the assignment coordinator was involved is because people are telling him not to staff OP on their cases.

OP has to leave. Has to.

OP here: I agree, 2 people i beleive told assignor not to staff me on their shit. but if its only 2 people is it soo bad?

Also the other person in the room was the assignors boss - both are HR - idk if that changes anything.

[Anonymous User]

I think the move HAS TO BE ask partner mentor for coffee, and casually steer convo to about how im doing, if he heard anythign about me, and feel out what he knows. if hes like: yeah i heard u suck, then assure him i will try harder and stuff. Anyone see anything wrong with this plan.

This whole fucking thing is ruining my happiness

[Anonymous User]

I think you should generally be eyeing your lateral options to get a feel for how long it would take to land somewhere else. 3 months is not a lot of time, and this is pretty dangerous shit to gamble with.

You also need to figure out what is going wrong. It is like step number 1 for you. You are implying that you do not have substantive skills and people expect you to have substantive skills - this seems crazy to me. First years don't know shit and aren't expected to know shit. They're just expected to be diligent and available. People either have unfair expectations of you or you are mischaracterizing your faults.

I think it is coming down to poor communication between me and the mid level. I am not fully understanding what they are asking, or am fasley understanding what they are asking. Taking better notes, typing them up, reviewign them ASAP and stuff might help.

[Anonymous User]

Not to sound harsh, but I'd say that your reputation at this firm is probably done for. You should consider lateraling (start looking now) and make sure you get a good start at your new firm. In the meantime, try to improve at your current firm.

can reputations go that fast?
How does one lateral as a first year?
do other ppl agree with this?

yes OP needs to lateral before he/she gets fired

I am so disheartened... I really like this place esides the failed assignments

Should i speak with HR and try and feel out - how bad this is first?

Aside from recruiting and personnel paperwork, HR doesn't really have anything to do with who gets hired and fired at a law firm. It doesn't make sense to talk to HR.

Someone earlier suggested that you not discuss this situation with your partner mentor. I actually disagree with that advice in your case. You've got a bunch of mid-level associates who think you're incompetent, even by first-year associate standards. That might be because you're really that bad, but it might also be because you screwed a couple things up early for a couple of gossipy midlevels who then bitched to all the other midlevels about how horrible you are. Once something like that happens, other associates will look for reasons to validate what they've heard--and then they'll start blowing things out of proportion even when you make a typical first-year mistake.

If I were you, I'd want a partner ally. Go to your partner mentor, explain the situation, and ask for advice. State that you really want to improve. This won't fix everything, but it might buy you some time. If the partner mentor likes you, and if the mentor sees you making an earnest effort to listen to the advice, then he/she might suggest that the firm give you another chance before letting you go. If the firm is thinking of firing you, this could buy you an extra six months (or more) of time--which you might need if you're looking to lateral.

You are really kind. I have nothing to do with the OP or the issue here, but thanks.

[Anonymous User]

OP are you somebody who would make a credible discrimination claim?

unclear, its pretty widely known im Mormon

[dailygrind]

I think you should generally be eyeing your lateral options to get a feel for how long it would take to land somewhere else. 3 months is not a lot of time, and this is pretty dangerous shit to gamble with.

You also need to figure out what is going wrong. It is like step number 1 for you. You are implying that you do not have substantive skills and people expect you to have substantive skills - this seems crazy to me. First years don't know shit and aren't expected to know shit. They're just expected to be diligent and available. People either have unfair expectations of you or you are mischaracterizing your faults.

I think it is coming down to poor communication between me and the mid level. I am not fully understanding what they are asking, or am fasley understanding what they are asking. Taking better notes, typing them up, reviewign them ASAP and stuff might help.

Are you not getting a clear idea from the mid-level what it is that you should be doing? I get assignments from partners that are sparse on details (and those are fuckin landmines), but mid-levels are generally better about hand-holding and providing sufficiently detailed instructions. It's possible you got one of the mid-levels who sucks (and I'm sorry if that's the case), but if you have multiple attorneys who say you suck, either the problem is with you or your reputation has been put so far in the shitter that no one is giving you a chance.

[Desert Fox]

OP are you somebody who would make a credible discrimination claim?

unclear, its pretty widely known im Mormon

on the bright side you probably got a smoking hot, young, dedicated wife at home.

u guys are supposed to kill it in biglaw.

get better and lateral to a place where you dont have a bad repuation. you'll do great.

[Anonymous User]

I think you should generally be eyeing your lateral options to get a feel for how long it would take to land somewhere else. 3 months is not a lot of time, and this is pretty dangerous shit to gamble with.

You also need to figure out what is going wrong. It is like step number 1 for you. You are implying that you do not have substantive skills and people expect you to have substantive skills - this seems crazy to me. First years don't know shit and aren't expected to know shit. They're just expected to be diligent and available. People either have unfair expectations of you or you are mischaracterizing your faults.

I think it is coming down to poor communication between me and the mid level. I am not fully understanding what they are asking, or am fasley understanding what they are asking. Taking better notes, typing them up, reviewign them ASAP and stuff might help.

Are you not getting a clear idea from the mid-level what it is that you should be doing? I get assignments from partners that are sparse on details (and those are fuckin landmines), but mid-levels are generally better about hand-holding and providing sufficiently detailed instructions. It's possible you got one of the mid-levels who sucks (and I'm sorry if that's the case), but if you have multiple attorneys who say you suck, either the problem is with you or your reputation has been put so far in the shitter that no one is giving you a chance.

Part of it, is throughout part of this period I was severly sleep deprived due to sleep apnea that I now have fixed but didnt know about and was recently severly intefering with my sleep. Part of it is I sometimes space out , part of it i thought was shitty instructions but im starting to think it has to be me because its not just one attorney.

[Anonymous User]

I think you should generally be eyeing your lateral options to get a feel for how long it would take to land somewhere else. 3 months is not a lot of time, and this is pretty dangerous shit to gamble with.

You also need to figure out what is going wrong. It is like step number 1 for you. You are implying that you do not have substantive skills and people expect you to have substantive skills - this seems crazy to me. First years don't know shit and aren't expected to know shit. They're just expected to be diligent and available. People either have unfair expectations of you or you are mischaracterizing your faults.

I think it is coming down to poor communication between me and the mid level. I am not fully understanding what they are asking, or am fasley understanding what they are asking. Taking better notes, typing them up, reviewign them ASAP and stuff might help.

Are you not getting a clear idea from the mid-level what it is that you should be doing? I get assignments from partners that are sparse on details (and those are fuckin landmines), but mid-levels are generally better about hand-holding and providing sufficiently detailed instructions. It's possible you got one of the mid-levels who sucks (and I'm sorry if that's the case), but if you have multiple attorneys who say you suck, either the problem is with you or your reputation has been put so far in the shitter that no one is giving you a chance.

Part of it, is throughout part of this period I was severly sleep deprived due to sleep apnea that I now have fixed but didnt know about and was recently severly intefering with my sleep. Part of it is I sometimes space out , part of it i thought was shitty instructions but im starting to think it has to be me because its not just one attorney.

[Anonymous User]

I casually without giving away my hand asked a few trusted second and a just turned third year if they heard anything bad about our class and they assured me they heard nothing. So gossip isnt that crazy right now.

[dailygrind]

I think you should generally be eyeing your lateral options to get a feel for how long it would take to land somewhere else. 3 months is not a lot of time, and this is pretty dangerous shit to gamble with.

You also need to figure out what is going wrong. It is like step number 1 for you. You are implying that you do not have substantive skills and people expect you to have substantive skills - this seems crazy to me. First years don't know shit and aren't expected to know shit. They're just expected to be diligent and available. People either have unfair expectations of you or you are mischaracterizing your faults.

I think it is coming down to poor communication between me and the mid level. I am not fully understanding what they are asking, or am fasley understanding what they are asking. Taking better notes, typing them up, reviewign them ASAP and stuff might help.

Are you not getting a clear idea from the mid-level what it is that you should be doing? I get assignments from partners that are sparse on details (and those are fuckin landmines), but mid-levels are generally better about hand-holding and providing sufficiently detailed instructions. It's possible you got one of the mid-levels who sucks (and I'm sorry if that's the case), but if you have multiple attorneys who say you suck, either the problem is with you or your reputation has been put so far in the shitter that no one is giving you a chance.

Part of it, is throughout part of this period I was severly sleep deprived due to sleep apnea that I now have fixed but didnt know about and was recently severly intefering with my sleep. Part of it is I sometimes space out , part of it i thought was shitty instructions but im starting to think it has to be me because its not just one attorney.

I mean, it's definitely possible that people have gossiped and ruined your reputation (and that the problem isn't you), but you should definitely be working on fixing your rep (while potentially eyeing your lateral options - if you don't fix your rep fast enough you could be done here).

One thing I would recommend is making sure all the details are right on every assignment - no typos, etc. This usually doesn't affect the substance of an agreement, but it's like plating in a restaurant - even if the food tastes great, the first thing I notice is the plating, and if the garnish is all fucked up it's going to color my view of the dish. Also, I don't want to be a dick, but you've had a bunch of typos in your responses to me, and I understand that it's the internet and all, but like...perfect spelling should be a habit. Clear writing should be a habit. Being good with details should be a habit.

[Anonymous User]

How does firing work in biglaw? does anyone know? Has there really never been anyone fired for non-ridiculous things post recession?

[Desert Fox]

How does firing work in biglaw? does anyone know? Has there really never been anyone fired for non-ridiculous things post recession?

People are getting fired from biglaw damn near every single day. You are living with your head in the sand bro.

[dailygrind]

re: firing, I think someone sits down in your office and tells you that you have 3 months to figure out what you're doing with your life, and that maybe some people at the firm will be able to help with your transition.

[Johann]

How does firing work in biglaw? does anyone know? Has there really never been anyone fired for non-ridiculous things post recession?

People are getting fired from biglaw damn near every single day. You are living with your head in the sand bro.

[sparty99]

I would start looking at other legal options immediately. I can relate to your situation. I had the same situation happen to me out of my first job in college which was for an "up or out" management consulting firm. My manager's never took the time to train me so I didn't know what to do. I was not staffed on projects and when I was staffed, I was quickly pulled off because I didn't know what to do and no one would train me. At the end of the day, I got sacked at the 12 month mark.

The fact that they brought in HR is a bad sign. You need to start looking for other opportunities and while you still have a job, you need to figure out why your work product sucks and start finding a Partner and Associate who wants to work with you and will fight for you. This is your first year. You should not have to worry about your billable hours. You should worry about making connections and showing the Partners and Associates that they can count on you. I spend 1.5 hours drafting a motion when it probably would have taken 35 minutes if I was experienced. I review my work product 3 or 4x before I give it to a Partner. I sometimes ask a secretary to review what I wrote just to confirm that there are no spelling mistakes. If you get an assignment, you should do it for 30 minutes or 2 hours then ask the Associate if you are on the right track. Also google or use LexisNexis or ask the Associate for examples of work product so you can copy. I work in litigation but I consistently copy previously written motions, client reports, and other documents. I had to draft a complaint and had no clue what to do, but I found examples of complaints on Lexis. While you should be looking for a new job it is equally important that you determine why Associates don't want to work with you. Because if you are making mistakes at your present firm the chances that you screw up at the next will be equally high. Perhaps you should try litigation or another area of law that best matches your skill-set. Who knows, maybe law is not right for you. As I'm a lawyer now, I have realized that consulting was a very bad fit for me and did not play to my strengths. As a lawyer, I have received strong reviews for my work product which is a stark contrast from my performance reviews in consulting. I think in consulting my year end rating was a 4. 5 being the worst.