LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

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RedPurpleBlue

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A) AUSA (crim)
B) 8 yrs out of law school, entering 3rd year at DOJ, former biglaw + other gov exp
C) secondary market, large district
D) $106k

They really stick it to AUSAs salary wise, huh? I’ve got a buddy with 4.5 years exp, fed government in a secondary market making 120k. Why are AUSA salaries so low?


At the end of the day, AUSAs are government employees. $120k isn't really that low when you realize that a US Senator/Representative makes $174k and a SCOTUS justice earns $244k. Depending on locality, an AUSA can top out at $164k. For a federal government employee, you'd make $10k less than a Senator and 2/3 of what a SCOTUS justice that is likely imminently more credentialed earns. The ceiling for government jobs just isn't that high. The president earns $400k, which is less than what a 33 year old 8th year associate would make after bonus at a market firm. Also, $120k is pretty darn good living anywhere outside of SF/NYC/and maybe a couple other northeast cities.

TheProsecutor

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby TheProsecutor » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:54 am

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A) AUSA (crim)
B) 8 yrs out of law school, entering 3rd year at DOJ, former biglaw + other gov exp
C) secondary market, large district
D) $106k

They really stick it to AUSAs salary wise, huh? I’ve got a buddy with 4.5 years exp, fed government in a secondary market making 120k. Why are AUSA salaries so low?


At the end of the day, AUSAs are government employees. $120k isn't really that low when you realize that a US Senator/Representative makes $174k and a SCOTUS justice earns $244k. Depending on locality, an AUSA can top out at $164k. For a federal government employee, you'd make $10k less than a Senator and 2/3 of what a SCOTUS justice that is likely imminently more credentialed earns. The ceiling for government jobs just isn't that high. The president earns $400k, which is less than what a 33 year old 8th year associate would make after bonus at a market firm. Also, $120k is pretty darn good living anywhere outside of SF/NYC/and maybe a couple other northeast cities.


This is a idiotic response to a legitimate question. SEC employees are government workers too, yet they make 200k+. So are the lawyers with the cfpb. It’s just pretty clear you have no idea what you’re talking about.

RedPurpleBlue

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:08 pm

TheProsecutor wrote:
RedPurpleBlue wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A) AUSA (crim)
B) 8 yrs out of law school, entering 3rd year at DOJ, former biglaw + other gov exp
C) secondary market, large district
D) $106k

They really stick it to AUSAs salary wise, huh? I’ve got a buddy with 4.5 years exp, fed government in a secondary market making 120k. Why are AUSA salaries so low?


At the end of the day, AUSAs are government employees. $120k isn't really that low when you realize that a US Senator/Representative makes $174k and a SCOTUS justice earns $244k. Depending on locality, an AUSA can top out at $164k. For a federal government employee, you'd make $10k less than a Senator and 2/3 of what a SCOTUS justice that is likely imminently more credentialed earns. The ceiling for government jobs just isn't that high. The president earns $400k, which is less than what a 33 year old 8th year associate would make after bonus at a market firm. Also, $120k is pretty darn good living anywhere outside of SF/NYC/and maybe a couple other northeast cities.


This is a idiotic response to a legitimate question. SEC employees are government workers too, yet they make 200k+. So are the lawyers with the cfpb. It’s just pretty clear you have no idea what you’re talking about.


This is an incredibly harsh response to what was a fairly reasonable answer from myself. In summary, the point was that gov't employees aren't going to make as much as their private counterparts, for the most part, and that AUSAs make pretty good money compared to a lot of other government employees, even some that you would assume would be near the highest paid. I didn't say other government employees aren't paid better, or that they couldn't be. I just said that it wasn't unreasonable. $200k for an SEC employee isn't unreasonable (an online database I looked up has their average pegged at $178k) either, considering many of them could be making much more in the private sector. In some AUSA offices, that's probably also true, but there are a lot of AUSA offices (the one in my home state for instance) where the AUSAs mostly come from the local flagship state university and their only other options were $60k max jobs. Not every AUSA has the same great exit options like everyone earning that type of money at the SEC or other organizations that have more standardized hiring criteria.

Regardless of if i'm wrong or right, take whatever stick is lodged in your ass out. It's unbecoming. Your (over)reaction to my post was unnecessary.

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:32 pm

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A) AUSA (crim)
B) 8 yrs out of law school, entering 3rd year at DOJ, former biglaw + other gov exp
C) secondary market, large district
D) $106k

They really stick it to AUSAs salary wise, huh? I’ve got a buddy with 4.5 years exp, fed government in a secondary market making 120k. Why are AUSA salaries so low?


At the end of the day, AUSAs are government employees. $120k isn't really that low when you realize that a US Senator/Representative makes $174k and a SCOTUS justice earns $244k. Depending on locality, an AUSA can top out at $164k. For a federal government employee, you'd make $10k less than a Senator and 2/3 of what a SCOTUS justice that is likely imminently more credentialed earns. The ceiling for government jobs just isn't that high. The president earns $400k, which is less than what a 33 year old 8th year associate would make after bonus at a market firm. Also, $120k is pretty darn good living anywhere outside of SF/NYC/and maybe a couple other northeast cities.


I was moreso commenting on how AUSA salaries are so low compared to other agencies. I mean, 4.5 years experience for $120k vs someone with 8 years experience at 106k, both being in secondary markets. I’m also pretty sure AUSAs have much more work than attorney advisors at other agencies, for the most part. Administrative practice seems to be a lot more chill.

Anonymous User
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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
RedPurpleBlue wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A) AUSA (crim)
B) 8 yrs out of law school, entering 3rd year at DOJ, former biglaw + other gov exp
C) secondary market, large district
D) $106k

They really stick it to AUSAs salary wise, huh? I’ve got a buddy with 4.5 years exp, fed government in a secondary market making 120k. Why are AUSA salaries so low?


At the end of the day, AUSAs are government employees. $120k isn't really that low when you realize that a US Senator/Representative makes $174k and a SCOTUS justice earns $244k. Depending on locality, an AUSA can top out at $164k. For a federal government employee, you'd make $10k less than a Senator and 2/3 of what a SCOTUS justice that is likely imminently more credentialed earns. The ceiling for government jobs just isn't that high. The president earns $400k, which is less than what a 33 year old 8th year associate would make after bonus at a market firm. Also, $120k is pretty darn good living anywhere outside of SF/NYC/and maybe a couple other northeast cities.


I was moreso commenting on how AUSA salaries are so low compared to other agencies. I mean, 4.5 years experience for $120k vs someone with 8 years experience at 106k, both being in secondary markets. I’m also pretty sure AUSAs have much more work than attorney advisors at other agencies, for the most part. Administrative practice seems to be a lot more chill.


Piggybacking on this, it is extremely unfair how AUSAs are paid in contrast with the rest of the federal government, even other prosecutors. AUSA pay is governed by the AD pay scale which are pay bands based upon years of experience in conjunction with performance appraisals. This is contrasted with the GS pay scale, which a majority of federal employees' salaries are calculated and are not tied to performance, but rather just years of experience.
For example-using this chart https://www.justice.gov/usao/career-center/salary-information/administratively-determined-pay-plan-charts when OP came into the USAO office he had 5 years experience and thus his salary could range from 61k-93k (note this does notinclude locality pay which varies by geographic area and new hires cannot obtain maximum for their band, only with outstanding performance can that even be a consideration). For arguments sake, lets say it is the Washington DC USAO, which has a locality pay of 28.22%. The lateral AUSA would then have a salary range of 78k-119k.
Contrast that with a Main Justice prosecutor in Washington DC with the same years of experience using the GS scale: [url]https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2018/DCB.pdf
[/url] Main Justice prosecutors with 4 years experience are automatically placed at the top of the scale at GS-15. A person with OPs credentials would start at 134k. Not to mention automatic increases not tied to performance.
While both scales are capped at 164, the Main Justice prosecutor, and others with salary ladders up to 15, will reap significantly more money in the form of salary and 401k matching.
In sum, its messed up.

egglayer2012

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby egglayer2012 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:26 am

a) what kind of legal job/firm/office they work at: small litigation firm, <10 attorneys, only 1 other associate
b) how long they've been working there: 4 months, first job since admission
c) geographic area: Manhattan
d) yearly salary: 60k

Only 1600 billable hour requirement, usually 8:30-5:30 during the week, but I get called to come in to work at least one day most weekends

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:22 pm

a) Small IP/patent boutique
b) About 1.5 years full time (2016 grad)
c) SoCal
d) 70K

Trying to upgrade but having a tough time. I have an EE background and am patent barred but graduated from an unranked law school.

ATLien2016

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby ATLien2016 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:11 pm

egglayer2012 wrote:a) what kind of legal job/firm/office they work at: small litigation firm, <10 attorneys, only 1 other associate
b) how long they've been working there: 4 months, first job since admission
c) geographic area: Manhattan
d) yearly salary: 60k

Only 1600 billable hour requirement, usually 8:30-5:30 during the week, but I get called to come in to work at least one day most weekends


Thanks for posting this. How are you managing on your salary? I’d be very interested to see what your monthly budget looks like.

egglayer2012

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby egglayer2012 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:19 am

ATLien2016 wrote:
egglayer2012 wrote:a) what kind of legal job/firm/office they work at: small litigation firm, <10 attorneys, only 1 other associate
b) how long they've been working there: 4 months, first job since admission
c) geographic area: Manhattan
d) yearly salary: 60k

Only 1600 billable hour requirement, usually 8:30-5:30 during the week, but I get called to come in to work at least one day most weekends


Thanks for posting this. How are you managing on your salary? I’d be very interested to see what your monthly budget looks like.


It's difficult but doable, assuming my income-based loan repayment plan works as it should when I file taxes (never going to pay more than the minimum). The hardest part is the city/state taxes on top of federal withholdings, which brings my take-home down to around 40k. Having a roommate and commuting from Brooklyn helps with costs.

InHouse18

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby InHouse18 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:58 pm

a) West Coast tech company
b) 5 years (but moved in house after 8 years in Biglaw)
c) West Coast
d) 250 K + 30% bonus

Anonymous User
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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:09 am

Corporation (~2000 employees)
$130,000 (+ a small bonus)
Secondary city
Have been here a year, spent 2 years at regional big law firm first

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:00 pm

a) v100
b) year and a half, but 6th year associate (lateral)
c) the south
d) $180k

1900 billable target, not mandatory, but most people bill above it, some far above it.

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magnum_law

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby magnum_law » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Corporation (~2000 employees)
$130,000 (+ a small bonus)
Secondary city
Have been here a year, spent 2 years at regional big law firm first


Sweet. How are the hours? Any significant annual raises?

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:32 pm

Salary- 65k.
Location- southeast. Low cost of living city
Position- in house. Fortune 500
Experience- 0 years. Will be my first job out of law school. Average grades from T25.
Hours- from what Im told 40-50 hours a week

Not sure if I think this is a great salary. Cost of living is super low but salary seems low. I wanted in house so I took it

Pay seems to rise to 80-85 after 1-2 years

Anonymous User
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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:20 pm

Salary: v100. Started as Associate at 160. Moved up quickly. Now Partner.
Location: Rockies.
Position: Partner.
Experience: 4 years.
Hours: Associate[70] Partner[60]

pbr123

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby pbr123 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:59 pm

a) Regional firm based in LA (~150 lawyers), offices in TX and LA,
b) 4th year associate (counting 1-yr clerkship credit),
c) LA,
d) $106k base - $20k bonus (for exceeding min billables by 300 hours)

Relocating to ATL later this year and can report the following based on recently received offer:

a) V50 firm,
b) incoming as 3rd year associate,
c) ATL,
d) $175k base - no info on bonus scale yet

Lawworld19

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Lawworld19 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:54 pm

Graduate this month. Hired as an associate in the midwest in a low cost of living area. 50% in my class. $70,000 per year.

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:09 pm

1. Small firm (20 lawyers)
2. 1900
3. Atlanta
4. 3rd year
5. 150k + bonus.
6. Generally happy. Sometimes insecure abt not biglaw.

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:52 pm

magnum_law wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Corporation (~2000 employees)
$130,000 (+ a small bonus)
Secondary city
Have been here a year, spent 2 years at regional big law firm first


Sweet. How are the hours? Any significant annual raises?

I’m in from around 8:30 to 5:45 in general and I’m about the average in our department - if anything, maybe a tad more (a lot of people seem to do 8:45ish to 5:15ish but take a shorter lunch than I do). I’ve not had to do much after 6:00, and weekend work is quite rare. I was at a regional firm where billing 1900 was a good year and my lifestyle is quite a bit different in house. Of course, every in house department is different. I think as a very general rule, the bigger the company and the bigger the market, the closer it’ll be to big law.

I don’t have personal experienice into how comp/career progression really works over time. But my understanding is that the raises are modest between titles. There are four titles before GC (I’m the lowest one), and each new title comes with a ~15% raise, except for the final non-GC title, which is a pretty significant bump.

Anonymous User
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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Salary: v100. Started as Associate at 160. Moved up quickly. Now Partner.
Location: Rockies.
Position: Partner.
Experience: 4 years.
Hours: Associate[70] Partner[60]


You made partner in 4 years? Nice.

Were you straight through (k-JD)?

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2018 12:12 pm

Recently switched jobs, so I thought I'd add to this list --

Salary: $150,000 plus a decent bonus and solid benefits
Location: medium-sized western city
Position: in-house counsel at a healthcare F500 company doing litigation/government investigations
Experience: 5 years -- 4 at a major firm before taking the role, plus a district court clerkship
Hours: 45ish a week, which includes a decent amount of work travel, and a little more than 4 weeks vacation a year which everyone in my group seems to take full advantage of

Anonymous User
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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:05 pm

Fortune 500 company - IP Attorney
Small town (<100K people); >1hr from nearest large city
2017 law graduate (lower tier) + 15 years related non-law experience
$145K + 30% bonus
50-60 hours; average stress; flexible hours; independent; 4 weeks vacation

Jealous of big law and partner salaries; but liking my work-life balance more than the $$$.

Anonymous User
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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:08 pm

Salary: $160,000 plus a token bonus and fairly nice benefits
Location: DC area
Position: IP counsel at F500
Experience: 1.5 years at this company, 3 years prior experience
Hours: usually 45-55hrs/week. Minimum hours are usually 8:00am-8:45am, 9:30am-3:00pm, and 3:45pm-6:00pm (with commutes in between). I work with people in Pacific and Indian time zones, so I'll often have meetings between 6 and 10pm.

Stress is manageable. Most of the stress comes from work building up faster than I can do it. Despite the fact that biglaw money would have the student loans much more paid off, I'm happy with my choice to work in-house.

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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:18 am

Salary: $175,000
Bonus: $50k cash and $50k RSU (4 year vesting)
Location: TX
Position: AGC (started as Sr. Counsel)
Experience: 3 years biglaw prior to making the move
Hours: 40-50 hours a week, typically 8:30-6:00 or 6:30, very rare to work after other than responding to emails on my phone.

I would say the only thing I miss about biglaw is (1) such high cash compensation (2) I always felt like I had complete job security at the firm (I was very well liked and even if shit hit the fan, I could always lateral to a different firm); being at a Company, if a bad recession hit, I wonder how many in-house attorneys would make the cut.

Anonymous User
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Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:Fortune 500 company - IP Attorney
Small town (<100K people); >1hr from nearest large city
2017 law graduate (lower tier) + 15 years related non-law experience
$145K + 30% bonus
50-60 hours; average stress; flexible hours; independent; 4 weeks vacation

Jealous of big law and partner salaries; but liking my work-life balance more than the $$$.


Wait, this is a fantastic outcome for someone who would be a first-year from a lower tier law school. Probably making the same net effective salary as biglaw if you're in a very low COL area.



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