LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

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RedPurpleBlue
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:41 pm

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A) AUSA (crim)
B) 8 yrs out of law school, entering 3rd year at DOJ, former biglaw + other gov exp
C) secondary market, large district
D) $106k

They really stick it to AUSAs salary wise, huh? I’ve got a buddy with 4.5 years exp, fed government in a secondary market making 120k. Why are AUSA salaries so low?


At the end of the day, AUSAs are government employees. $120k isn't really that low when you realize that a US Senator/Representative makes $174k and a SCOTUS justice earns $244k. Depending on locality, an AUSA can top out at $164k. For a federal government employee, you'd make $10k less than a Senator and 2/3 of what a SCOTUS justice that is likely imminently more credentialed earns. The ceiling for government jobs just isn't that high. The president earns $400k, which is less than what a 33 year old 8th year associate would make after bonus at a market firm. Also, $120k is pretty darn good living anywhere outside of SF/NYC/and maybe a couple other northeast cities.

TheProsecutor
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 12:50 pm

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby TheProsecutor » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:54 am

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A) AUSA (crim)
B) 8 yrs out of law school, entering 3rd year at DOJ, former biglaw + other gov exp
C) secondary market, large district
D) $106k

They really stick it to AUSAs salary wise, huh? I’ve got a buddy with 4.5 years exp, fed government in a secondary market making 120k. Why are AUSA salaries so low?


At the end of the day, AUSAs are government employees. $120k isn't really that low when you realize that a US Senator/Representative makes $174k and a SCOTUS justice earns $244k. Depending on locality, an AUSA can top out at $164k. For a federal government employee, you'd make $10k less than a Senator and 2/3 of what a SCOTUS justice that is likely imminently more credentialed earns. The ceiling for government jobs just isn't that high. The president earns $400k, which is less than what a 33 year old 8th year associate would make after bonus at a market firm. Also, $120k is pretty darn good living anywhere outside of SF/NYC/and maybe a couple other northeast cities.


This is a idiotic response to a legitimate question. SEC employees are government workers too, yet they make 200k+. So are the lawyers with the cfpb. It’s just pretty clear you have no idea what you’re talking about.

RedPurpleBlue
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:41 pm

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:08 pm

TheProsecutor wrote:
RedPurpleBlue wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A) AUSA (crim)
B) 8 yrs out of law school, entering 3rd year at DOJ, former biglaw + other gov exp
C) secondary market, large district
D) $106k

They really stick it to AUSAs salary wise, huh? I’ve got a buddy with 4.5 years exp, fed government in a secondary market making 120k. Why are AUSA salaries so low?


At the end of the day, AUSAs are government employees. $120k isn't really that low when you realize that a US Senator/Representative makes $174k and a SCOTUS justice earns $244k. Depending on locality, an AUSA can top out at $164k. For a federal government employee, you'd make $10k less than a Senator and 2/3 of what a SCOTUS justice that is likely imminently more credentialed earns. The ceiling for government jobs just isn't that high. The president earns $400k, which is less than what a 33 year old 8th year associate would make after bonus at a market firm. Also, $120k is pretty darn good living anywhere outside of SF/NYC/and maybe a couple other northeast cities.


This is a idiotic response to a legitimate question. SEC employees are government workers too, yet they make 200k+. So are the lawyers with the cfpb. It’s just pretty clear you have no idea what you’re talking about.


This is an incredibly harsh response to what was a fairly reasonable answer from myself. In summary, the point was that gov't employees aren't going to make as much as their private counterparts, for the most part, and that AUSAs make pretty good money compared to a lot of other government employees, even some that you would assume would be near the highest paid. I didn't say other government employees aren't paid better, or that they couldn't be. I just said that it wasn't unreasonable. $200k for an SEC employee isn't unreasonable (an online database I looked up has their average pegged at $178k) either, considering many of them could be making much more in the private sector. In some AUSA offices, that's probably also true, but there are a lot of AUSA offices (the one in my home state for instance) where the AUSAs mostly come from the local flagship state university and their only other options were $60k max jobs. Not every AUSA has the same great exit options like everyone earning that type of money at the SEC or other organizations that have more standardized hiring criteria.

Regardless of if i'm wrong or right, take whatever stick is lodged in your ass out. It's unbecoming. Your (over)reaction to my post was unnecessary.

Anonymous User
Diamond
Posts: 307054
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:32 pm

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A) AUSA (crim)
B) 8 yrs out of law school, entering 3rd year at DOJ, former biglaw + other gov exp
C) secondary market, large district
D) $106k

They really stick it to AUSAs salary wise, huh? I’ve got a buddy with 4.5 years exp, fed government in a secondary market making 120k. Why are AUSA salaries so low?


At the end of the day, AUSAs are government employees. $120k isn't really that low when you realize that a US Senator/Representative makes $174k and a SCOTUS justice earns $244k. Depending on locality, an AUSA can top out at $164k. For a federal government employee, you'd make $10k less than a Senator and 2/3 of what a SCOTUS justice that is likely imminently more credentialed earns. The ceiling for government jobs just isn't that high. The president earns $400k, which is less than what a 33 year old 8th year associate would make after bonus at a market firm. Also, $120k is pretty darn good living anywhere outside of SF/NYC/and maybe a couple other northeast cities.


I was moreso commenting on how AUSA salaries are so low compared to other agencies. I mean, 4.5 years experience for $120k vs someone with 8 years experience at 106k, both being in secondary markets. I’m also pretty sure AUSAs have much more work than attorney advisors at other agencies, for the most part. Administrative practice seems to be a lot more chill.

Anonymous User
Diamond
Posts: 307054
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
RedPurpleBlue wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A) AUSA (crim)
B) 8 yrs out of law school, entering 3rd year at DOJ, former biglaw + other gov exp
C) secondary market, large district
D) $106k

They really stick it to AUSAs salary wise, huh? I’ve got a buddy with 4.5 years exp, fed government in a secondary market making 120k. Why are AUSA salaries so low?


At the end of the day, AUSAs are government employees. $120k isn't really that low when you realize that a US Senator/Representative makes $174k and a SCOTUS justice earns $244k. Depending on locality, an AUSA can top out at $164k. For a federal government employee, you'd make $10k less than a Senator and 2/3 of what a SCOTUS justice that is likely imminently more credentialed earns. The ceiling for government jobs just isn't that high. The president earns $400k, which is less than what a 33 year old 8th year associate would make after bonus at a market firm. Also, $120k is pretty darn good living anywhere outside of SF/NYC/and maybe a couple other northeast cities.


I was moreso commenting on how AUSA salaries are so low compared to other agencies. I mean, 4.5 years experience for $120k vs someone with 8 years experience at 106k, both being in secondary markets. I’m also pretty sure AUSAs have much more work than attorney advisors at other agencies, for the most part. Administrative practice seems to be a lot more chill.


Piggybacking on this, it is extremely unfair how AUSAs are paid in contrast with the rest of the federal government, even other prosecutors. AUSA pay is governed by the AD pay scale which are pay bands based upon years of experience in conjunction with performance appraisals. This is contrasted with the GS pay scale, which a majority of federal employees' salaries are calculated and are not tied to performance, but rather just years of experience.
For example-using this chart https://www.justice.gov/usao/career-center/salary-information/administratively-determined-pay-plan-charts when OP came into the USAO office he had 5 years experience and thus his salary could range from 61k-93k (note this does notinclude locality pay which varies by geographic area and new hires cannot obtain maximum for their band, only with outstanding performance can that even be a consideration). For arguments sake, lets say it is the Washington DC USAO, which has a locality pay of 28.22%. The lateral AUSA would then have a salary range of 78k-119k.
Contrast that with a Main Justice prosecutor in Washington DC with the same years of experience using the GS scale: [url]https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2018/DCB.pdf
[/url] Main Justice prosecutors with 4 years experience are automatically placed at the top of the scale at GS-15. A person with OPs credentials would start at 134k. Not to mention automatic increases not tied to performance.
While both scales are capped at 164, the Main Justice prosecutor, and others with salary ladders up to 15, will reap significantly more money in the form of salary and 401k matching.
In sum, its messed up.

egglayer2012
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:28 pm

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby egglayer2012 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:26 am

a) what kind of legal job/firm/office they work at: small litigation firm, <10 attorneys, only 1 other associate
b) how long they've been working there: 4 months, first job since admission
c) geographic area: Manhattan
d) yearly salary: 60k

Only 1600 billable hour requirement, usually 8:30-5:30 during the week, but I get called to come in to work at least one day most weekends

Anonymous User
Diamond
Posts: 307054
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:22 pm

a) Small IP/patent boutique
b) About 1.5 years full time (2016 grad)
c) SoCal
d) 70K

Trying to upgrade but having a tough time. I have an EE background and am patent barred but graduated from an unranked law school.

ATLien2016
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:49 pm

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby ATLien2016 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:11 pm

egglayer2012 wrote:a) what kind of legal job/firm/office they work at: small litigation firm, <10 attorneys, only 1 other associate
b) how long they've been working there: 4 months, first job since admission
c) geographic area: Manhattan
d) yearly salary: 60k

Only 1600 billable hour requirement, usually 8:30-5:30 during the week, but I get called to come in to work at least one day most weekends


Thanks for posting this. How are you managing on your salary? I’d be very interested to see what your monthly budget looks like.

egglayer2012
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:28 pm

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Postby egglayer2012 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:19 am

ATLien2016 wrote:
egglayer2012 wrote:a) what kind of legal job/firm/office they work at: small litigation firm, <10 attorneys, only 1 other associate
b) how long they've been working there: 4 months, first job since admission
c) geographic area: Manhattan
d) yearly salary: 60k

Only 1600 billable hour requirement, usually 8:30-5:30 during the week, but I get called to come in to work at least one day most weekends


Thanks for posting this. How are you managing on your salary? I’d be very interested to see what your monthly budget looks like.


It's difficult but doable, assuming my income-based loan repayment plan works as it should when I file taxes (never going to pay more than the minimum). The hardest part is the city/state taxes on top of federal withholdings, which brings my take-home down to around 40k. Having a roommate and commuting from Brooklyn helps with costs.




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