New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Man, the learning curve for corporate work is way steeper than I imagined.

[Anonymous User]

When I started my second month as a IP associate, a senior partner asked me to make a flow chart for a patent application. He usually draws them by hand and sends them to a publisher to make into proper form. Flow chart is usually blocks with arrows pointing to each other. I decided to use Excel and Visio to do it.

I showed him my work product (and he looked stressed out from a big workload that month) and he flipped out on me because the blocks didn't have borders around them. Said the publisher would have no idea what to do with this, was screaming at top of his lungs how he'd need to spend hours reproducing this properly on weekend (it was a Friday when this happened) and I should consider if I really want to work in this profession.

I went back to my computer, clicked "all borders" on Excel and he approved it later that day. (I didn't go back immediately after I did this to avoid smugness)

[Anonymous User]

How busy do you guys think it will be next week

[Winter is Coming]

When I started my second month as a IP associate, a senior partner asked me to make a flow chart for a patent application. He usually draws them by hand and sends them to a publisher to make into proper form. Flow chart is usually blocks with arrows pointing to each other. I decided to use Excel and Visio to do it.

I showed him my work product (and he looked stressed out from a big workload that month) and he flipped out on me because the blocks didn't have borders around them. Said the publisher would have no idea what to do with this, was screaming at top of his lungs how he'd need to spend hours reproducing this properly on weekend (it was a Friday when this happened) and I should consider if I really want to work in this profession.

I went back to my computer, clicked "all borders" on Excel and he approved it later that day. (I didn't go back immediately after I did this to avoid smugness)

This is awesome.

[Anonymous User]

I am a midlevel-ish (class of 2013) litigation associate. A few tips about proofreading:

(1) Most spacing/headings issues are a product of not knowing how to use the "paragraph" function in Word. Try opening it up and playing with different spacing and seeing how things look on the page. (Unless there's a local rule that governs it, spacing at exactly 24 points with no extra spacing between paragraphs typically looks cleanest. It also generally helps the lines fit the pleading paper if you are in CA or another state that uses pleading paper.)

(2) Click the paragraph symbol at the top of the screen in Word to make sure your spacing between words and sentences is consistent. This is especially important if you are working from a draft that has track changes, which inevitably manage to fuck up spacing.

(3) Speaking of track changes, try to figure out if the partner you are working with wants them. Some do, some don't, and some don't want track changes but do want you to send both a clean and a redlined version when you turn around drafts.

(4) You should make sure your blue booking is on point, even when the partner doesn't care. Some partners do and it's a lot easier to do it quickly/instinctively if you make a habit of doing it every time. It's also one of those things that signals attention to detail because so many people are so bad at it.

(5) I strongly endorse printing stuff out and reading it in a conference room.

Just as important as proofreading (at least in my experience) is making sure your document complies with the local rules and your judge's standing order (which trumps the local rules). This is particularly important with respect to page length. Courts (and judges) are all over the place on page length for briefs and it will make your life a million times easier if you just check before you start writing.

[misterjames]

How busy do you guys think it will be next week

fuck man I'm already really busy this week

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Man I feel like I'm fucking terrible at this. And dumb. Very dumb.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

How much/what are y'all getting your secretary for a Christmas gift? I had a late start date that's a bit unprecedented and have been here for all of three weeks and I have no idea what's appropriate. Every other associate's advice is from the perspective of having been here for a few months.

[Minnietron]

he said no "just breath and keep doing what you are doing. This shouldn't have been with you and should have been with our litigation team. It's an important lesson, never trust another lawyer"

Not sure if I believe him, but I'm still getting loads of work.

Did you mean for this irony?

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

How much/what are y'all getting your secretary for a Christmas gift? I had a late start date that's a bit unprecedented and have been here for all of three weeks and I have no idea what's appropriate. Every other associate's advice is from the perspective of having been here for a few months.

Idk I'd give the same as every other first year because what's $40 in the long run or whatever the difference would be, and in a way it's paying forward, not backward, for us anyway

[LaLiLuLeLo]

How much/what are y'all getting your secretary for a Christmas gift? I had a late start date that's a bit unprecedented and have been here for all of three weeks and I have no idea what's appropriate. Every other associate's advice is from the perspective of having been here for a few months.

Idk I'd give the same as every other first year because what's $40 in the long run or whatever the difference would be, and in a way it's paying forward, not backward, for us anyway

Most told me $100 which I thought was a bit much....I'd be far more comfortable with $40 or $50.

[favabeansoup]

How much/what are y'all getting your secretary for a Christmas gift? I had a late start date that's a bit unprecedented and have been here for all of three weeks and I have no idea what's appropriate. Every other associate's advice is from the perspective of having been here for a few months.

Idk I'd give the same as every other first year because what's $40 in the long run or whatever the difference would be, and in a way it's paying forward, not backward, for us anyway

Most told me $100 which I thought was a bit much....I'd be far more comfortable with $40 or $50.

You've now fallen into the trap where your Christmas gift will be judged against your fellow associates. You might forever be known by the secretaries as the "under-gifter", "the cheapskate", or "Mr. Scrooge". Are you ready for those consequences?

[Anonymous User]

Man I feel like I'm fucking terrible at this. And dumb. Very dumb.

LOL fuck

[Genius]

my boss likes to wait 2 hours before the deadline to review my motions. and then i get chewed out for sucking/fucking up. 3/3 so far.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

How much/what are y'all getting your secretary for a Christmas gift? I had a late start date that's a bit unprecedented and have been here for all of three weeks and I have no idea what's appropriate. Every other associate's advice is from the perspective of having been here for a few months.

Idk I'd give the same as every other first year because what's $40 in the long run or whatever the difference would be, and in a way it's paying forward, not backward, for us anyway

Most told me $100 which I thought was a bit much....I'd be far more comfortable with $40 or $50.

You've now fallen into the trap where your Christmas gift will be judged against your fellow associates. You might forever be known by the secretaries as the "under-gifter", "the cheapskate", or "Mr. Scrooge". Are you ready for those consequences?

I am. I already get made fun of because I buy on sale Florsheims and don't own any Park Aves.

[Anonymous User]

Unrelated but how much would you give to 5 building employees that hold the door for you, help you bring in groceries, etc. I'm thinking $20-30.

[Anonymous User]

my boss likes to wait 2 hours before the deadline to review my motions. and then i get chewed out for sucking/fucking up. 3/3 so far.

This is one thing I can't stand. People wait until the day of deadlines to look at work product you submitted days or weeks ago and then say all of these things are wrong and everything becomes a massive rush. Whereas if you skimmed the questions I raised regarding things I don't know about a week ago when I first asked, I could have resolved the issues way in advance.

[Anonymous User]

my boss likes to wait 2 hours before the deadline to review my motions. and then i get chewed out for sucking/fucking up. 3/3 so far.

This is one thing I can't stand. People wait until the day of deadlines to look at work product you submitted days or weeks ago and then say all of these things are wrong and everything becomes a massive rush. Whereas if you skimmed the questions I raised regarding things I don't know about a week ago when I first asked, I could have resolved the issues way in advance.

This is why you learn to not turn things in early unless you know the reviewer is ready and waiting for it.

[bruinfan10]

I have Microsoft Sam read the paper back to me before I turn it in and that seems to help.

My most recent screwup?

Writing a Motion for Summary Judgment which apparently according to local rules in my jurisdiction can't be more than 15 pages. Mine was 21. The remedy? The judge didn't read the last 6 pages

Bet the judge (or the clerk) still read the last six pages.

We don't in our chambers; less is more. We tend to rely on shorter motions/responses/replies for drafting. Anything longer than instructed ends up at the bottom of the pile.

Straight-up savage.

Sorry; didn't mean to sound savage. I just wanted to point out that some judges do follow that rule, so it doesn't hurt to err on the short side.

so incredibly stupid. in chambers you need to get the outcome right/avoid reversal/produce decent precedent. if there was great analysis in those last six pages, you'd be an idiot not to draw from it. but the parties almost never produce great analysis, so the stupidity probably didn't hurt you.

also, checking in. new associate. probably fucking up. don't even know how to tell yet.

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

I have Microsoft Sam read the paper back to me before I turn it in and that seems to help.

My most recent screwup?

Writing a Motion for Summary Judgment which apparently according to local rules in my jurisdiction can't be more than 15 pages. Mine was 21. The remedy? The judge didn't read the last 6 pages

Bet the judge (or the clerk) still read the last six pages.

We don't in our chambers; less is more. We tend to rely on shorter motions/responses/replies for drafting. Anything longer than instructed ends up at the bottom of the pile.

Straight-up savage.

Sorry; didn't mean to sound savage. I just wanted to point out that some judges do follow that rule, so it doesn't hurt to err on the short side.

so incredibly stupid. in chambers you need to get the outcome right/avoid reversal/produce decent precedent. if there was great analysis in those last six pages, you'd be an idiot not to draw from it. but the parties almost never produce great analysis, so the stupidity probably didn't hurt you.

also, checking in. new associate. probably fucking up. don't even know how to tell yet.

Two thoughts: the type of lawyers who fail to comply with the rules rarely produce great analysis (yes, I recognize that some good lawyers sometimes screw up - but fucking up something as basic as a page limit is a rookie move). And your instinct is right - almost never is there a great argument in the last few pages. It's either a losing argument or repetition.

But to the original poster: better that you learned sooner rather than later always to check the local rules. Plenty of lawyers who have practiced 20 years still don't get this.

[ur_hero]

Made a couple of substantive errors and omissions in a somewhat voluminous chart sent to the client....Caught the mistakes after sending, despite extensive proofreading. Terrible feeling.

[Anonymous User]

Made a couple of substantive errors and omissions in a somewhat voluminous chart sent to the client....Caught the mistakes after sending, despite extensive proofreading. Terrible feeling.

better than the client catching the mistake and sending an email, CCing the partner asking what the error was all about. I spoke to the partner and he fell on the knife with the client, saying it was a carry-over from a prior template and sent a revised version. He took me out to lunch and said with stuff like this and given the time crunch we were under, issues like this were to be expected. That said, he told me to pay more attention and sometimes it's good to take a step back.

[ArtistOfManliness]

Made a couple of substantive errors and omissions in a somewhat voluminous chart sent to the client....Caught the mistakes after sending, despite extensive proofreading. Terrible feeling.

better than the client catching the mistake and sending an email, CCing the partner asking what the error was all about. I spoke to the partner and he fell on the knife with the client, saying it was a carry-over from a prior template and sent a revised version. He took me out to lunch and said with stuff like this and given the time crunch we were under, issues like this were to be expected. That said, he told me to pay more attention and sometimes it's good to take a step back.

there's still time for the client to catch it... and send an e-mail...

[El Pollito]

they generally don't