New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:24 pm

First Offense wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody have tips for reducing typos. I can read something several times but ESP in a time crunch and I have been in the same doc for hours, it doesn't seem to help.

Can you get a secretary to read over it? Also - read it aloud.


Yea, and I have access to a proofreading department. The issue was turning an assignment around that night where none of those resources were available.

And thanks. I may try reading out loud and I have also heard of reading it backwards.

I also feel like I don't have the grammar and syntax base I I should.

ETA. ESP when I'm on like hour 13 in the office. How do ppl focus at all for that type of work.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:26 pm

First Offense wrote:Also - if you have typical mistakes (their/there, than/then, affect/effect or anything like that), ctrl+f for the common fuck up after you finish to make sure you catch them.


Thanks I'm solid with that, but have used that for proper nouns I tend to fuck up.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby First Offense » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:27 pm

Yeah - I have similar issues. Turn in your best work product, but I wouldn't take it personally if your shit is barely recognizable after edits.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:29 pm

First Offense wrote:Yeah - I have similar issues. Turn in your best work product, but I wouldn't take it personally if your shit is barely recognizable after edits.


Eh. I got bitched out by a mid level over it. Although he was eventually helpful and encouraging. But still. Can't afford another fuck up like that.

Thanks btw for the responses.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
First Offense wrote:Yeah - I have similar issues. Turn in your best work product, but I wouldn't take it personally if your shit is barely recognizable after edits.


Eh. I got bitched out by a mid level over it. Although he was eventually helpful and encouraging. But still. Can't afford another fuck up like that.

Thanks btw for the responses.


I have typos all the time. I'm working on it too but its exasperating.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
First Offense wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody have tips for reducing typos. I can read something several times but ESP in a time crunch and I have been in the same doc for hours, it doesn't seem to help.

Can you get a secretary to read over it? Also - read it aloud.


Yea, and I have access to a proofreading department. The issue was turning an assignment around that night where none of those resources were available.

And thanks. I may try reading out loud and I have also heard of reading it backwards.

I also feel like I don't have the grammar and syntax base I I should.

ETA. ESP when I'm on like hour 13 in the office. How do ppl focus at all for that type of work.


If you're in Lit, typos are less of a deal, and a mid-level bitching at you is just an asshole midlevel. Corp is a different story. Key for me is to print draft, my eyes glaze over on screen.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:42 pm

Speaking of asshole midlevels what's TCR for avoiding work with known assholes?

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
First Offense wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody have tips for reducing typos. I can read something several times but ESP in a time crunch and I have been in the same doc for hours, it doesn't seem to help.

Can you get a secretary to read over it? Also - read it aloud.


Yea, and I have access to a proofreading department. The issue was turning an assignment around that night where none of those resources were available.

And thanks. I may try reading out loud and I have also heard of reading it backwards.

I also feel like I don't have the grammar and syntax base I I should.

ETA. ESP when I'm on like hour 13 in the office. How do ppl focus at all for that type of work.


Your proofreaders are allowed to go home? What pussies. We have proofreaders 24/7.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:47 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Speaking of asshole midlevels what's TCR for avoiding work with known assholes?

Generally learning to say no is a life saving skill. Best solution, get busy doing work for non-assholes so you can credibly say you're jammed up. As long as your office is big enough you can usually get away with "ooo I'd love to, what kind of turn around do you need? Let me see if I can move things around..." Another key to note is that unless a-hole is partner, associates can almost never tank you, so saying no/telling them (professionally) to fuck off can't usually doom you.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
First Offense wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody have tips for reducing typos. I can read something several times but ESP in a time crunch and I have been in the same doc for hours, it doesn't seem to help.

Can you get a secretary to read over it? Also - read it aloud.


Yea, and I have access to a proofreading department. The issue was turning an assignment around that night where none of those resources were available.

And thanks. I may try reading out loud and I have also heard of reading it backwards.

I also feel like I don't have the grammar and syntax base I I should.

ETA. ESP when I'm on like hour 13 in the office. How do ppl focus at all for that type of work.


Your proofreaders are allowed to go home? What pussies. We have proofreaders 24/7.


We do too. The turnaround time is the issue.

And to the person who asked above, lit.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:30 am

homestyle28 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
First Offense wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody have tips for reducing typos. I can read something several times but ESP in a time crunch and I have been in the same doc for hours, it doesn't seem to help.

Can you get a secretary to read over it? Also - read it aloud.


Yea, and I have access to a proofreading department. The issue was turning an assignment around that night where none of those resources were available.

And thanks. I may try reading out loud and I have also heard of reading it backwards.

I also feel like I don't have the grammar and syntax base I I should.

ETA. ESP when I'm on like hour 13 in the office. How do ppl focus at all for that type of work.


If you're in Lit, typos are less of a deal, and a mid-level bitching at you is just an asshole midlevel. Corp is a different story. Key for me is to print draft, my eyes glaze over on screen.

Although this should be true, there are some folks who demand perfection in lit at every stage of work product.

As someone who is sloppy, make a checklist and proofread it twice.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby RaceJudicata » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:36 am

Print it and read it in another room - conference room or wherever.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby mediocrity » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody have tips for reducing typos. I can read something several times but ESP in a time crunch and I have been in the same doc for hours, it doesn't seem to help.


Changing the font helps somewhat.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby First Offense » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:31 am

mediocrity wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody have tips for reducing typos. I can read something several times but ESP in a time crunch and I have been in the same doc for hours, it doesn't seem to help.


Changing the font helps somewhat.

I am now tempted to change the font on this thing I'm writing to comic sans and send it to the partner.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:34 am

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Speaking of asshole midlevels what's TCR for avoiding work with known assholes?


Be generally busy with work for non-assholes and say that. Make the person trying to pull you on an assignment go through two other partners to get you.

Asshole midlevels are often the product of asshole partners - either they were trained by them or they are hypersensitive when working for them. What you don't want is a situation where they try and cajole you into joining matters (because the asshole partner asked them who is a good junior and they throw you under the bus).

Practice this conversation: "hey [asshole midlevel] that new assignment sounds great. Can I get it to you end of next week? I've just got to get an assignment out for [list all other assignments] but then I'm freed up."

They may kick and yell, but ultimately they do not want to make waves by going to other partners and cutting in line.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Speaking of asshole midlevels what's TCR for avoiding work with known assholes?


Be generally busy with work for non-assholes and say that. Make the person trying to pull you on an assignment go through two other partners to get you.

Asshole midlevels are often the product of asshole partners - either they were trained by them or they are hypersensitive when working for them. What you don't want is a situation where they try and cajole you into joining matters (because the asshole partner asked them who is a good junior and they throw you under the bus).

Practice this conversation: "hey [asshole midlevel] that new assignment sounds great. Can I get it to you end of next week? I've just got to get an assignment out for [list all other assignments] but then I'm freed up."

They may kick and yell, but ultimately they do not want to make waves by going to other partners and cutting in line.


Makes sense. I guess I'm more worried if I'm not legitimately busy when the asshole mid level comes knocking.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
First Offense wrote:Yeah - I have similar issues. Turn in your best work product, but I wouldn't take it personally if your shit is barely recognizable after edits.


Eh. I got bitched out by a mid level over it. Although he was eventually helpful and encouraging. But still. Can't afford another fuck up like that.

Thanks btw for the responses.


I have typos all the time. I'm working on it too but its exasperating.


More senior people are good at spotting typos because most of the time its the same 10-15 typos or formatting issues in a brief. Juniors don't have that experience of being able to fly through a document and focus only on a couple of things like whether all the headings are formatted the same or whether you have consistent period placement in citations. Any midlevel who doesn't remember reading a document 18 times for typos and then getting a draft back all marked up is an asshole or has a very short memory.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:47 am

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Speaking of asshole midlevels what's TCR for avoiding work with known assholes?


Be generally busy with work for non-assholes and say that. Make the person trying to pull you on an assignment go through two other partners to get you.

Asshole midlevels are often the product of asshole partners - either they were trained by them or they are hypersensitive when working for them. What you don't want is a situation where they try and cajole you into joining matters (because the asshole partner asked them who is a good junior and they throw you under the bus).

Practice this conversation: "hey [asshole midlevel] that new assignment sounds great. Can I get it to you end of next week? I've just got to get an assignment out for [list all other assignments] but then I'm freed up."

They may kick and yell, but ultimately they do not want to make waves by going to other partners and cutting in line.


Makes sense. I guess I'm more worried if I'm not legitimately busy when the asshole mid level comes knocking.


You might be able to swing it more generally as "I'm on X,Y, Z matters right now let me check if there's anything big coming down the pike," but sometimes there is nothing you can do- your number is up.

The thing to remember is that asshole midlevels carry no weight come review time. They may be able to get you blocked from working on matters they are on, but that's about it.

Asshole partners, on the other hand, can cause you problems, but the junior partners who do most of the development and admin stuff have all worked for them too, they know they are tough, and they aren't going to fire you solely because that person gave you a bad review (but they aren't going to go out of their way to protect you from them if you have a particularly jarring experience.)

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:23 pm

I was asked to interview a pro bono client and her child who were coming into the office. They arrived late so the interview did not start until early evening. The interview lasted two hours. I got the legally significant facts. But I did not get the client to state some facts that are not legally significant, and some of which are already included in the materials that the referring organization provided to us. The senior associate then offered constructive criticism that I did not move gradually enough in my questioning, and this could be taken as not empathizing with the client (i.e. because I'm focusing on my list of questions rather than getting the client's whole story). Point taken, but I feel like he and the client would have been equally annoyed if I had kept us all there past 9pm just to get all the facts that are not legally significant ....

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was asked to interview a pro bono client and her child who were coming into the office. They arrived late so the interview did not start until early evening. The interview lasted two hours. I got the legally significant facts. But I did not get the client to state some facts that are not legally significant, and some of which are already included in the materials that the referring organization provided to us. The senior associate then offered constructive criticism that I did not move gradually enough in my questioning, and this could be taken as not empathizing with the client (i.e. because I'm focusing on my list of questions rather than getting the client's whole story). Point taken, but I feel like he and the client would have been equally annoyed if I had kept us all there past 9pm just to get all the facts that are not legally significant ....

Nah. Client is getting free (and likely essential) legal help from a fancy law firm. She can afford a few extra minutes, especially if it means she walks out of there feeling heard and understood, rather than intimidated.

Doing your job well without coming off as a heartless suit is a difficult skill that law school does not teach you. Take the (very mild) criticism and run with it here.

ETA that your instinct to respect her time is a good one. But this meeting will affect her a lot more than it will you, in the short and long term.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:22 pm

BaiAilian2013 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was asked to interview a pro bono client and her child who were coming into the office. They arrived late so the interview did not start until early evening. The interview lasted two hours. I got the legally significant facts. But I did not get the client to state some facts that are not legally significant, and some of which are already included in the materials that the referring organization provided to us. The senior associate then offered constructive criticism that I did not move gradually enough in my questioning, and this could be taken as not empathizing with the client (i.e. because I'm focusing on my list of questions rather than getting the client's whole story). Point taken, but I feel like he and the client would have been equally annoyed if I had kept us all there past 9pm just to get all the facts that are not legally significant ....

Nah. Client is getting free (and likely essential) legal help from a fancy law firm. She can afford a few extra minutes, especially if it means she walks out of there feeling heard and understood, rather than intimidated.

Doing your job well without coming off as a heartless suit is a difficult skill that law school does not teach you. Take the (very mild) criticism and run with it here.

ETA that your instinct to respect her time is a good one. But this meeting will affect her a lot more than it will you, in the short and long term.


Okay, thanks, this is helpful.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was asked to interview a pro bono client and her child who were coming into the office. They arrived late so the interview did not start until early evening. The interview lasted two hours. I got the legally significant facts. But I did not get the client to state some facts that are not legally significant, and some of which are already included in the materials that the referring organization provided to us. The senior associate then offered constructive criticism that I did not move gradually enough in my questioning, and this could be taken as not empathizing with the client (i.e. because I'm focusing on my list of questions rather than getting the client's whole story). Point taken, but I feel like he and the client would have been equally annoyed if I had kept us all there past 9pm just to get all the facts that are not legally significant ....


I think you'll find that being an attorney for an indivdual is partly legal work, partly playing listener/therapist. Sometimes they just want to vent or tell their side of the story that they feel nobody is listening to. And sometimes, even though it doesn't seem relevant, a nugget of very important facts will pop out when they're talking about "other" things.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby FullRamboLSGrad » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
First Offense wrote:Also - if you have typical mistakes (their/there, than/then, affect/effect or anything like that), ctrl+f for the common fuck up after you finish to make sure you catch them.


Thanks I'm solid with that, but have used that for proper nouns I tend to fuck up.

I have Microsoft Sam read the paper back to me before I turn it in and that seems to help.

My most recent screwup?

Writing a Motion for Summary Judgment which apparently according to local rules in my jurisdiction can't be more than 15 pages. Mine was 21. The remedy? The judge didn't read the last 6 pages :|

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby First Offense » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:34 pm

Check the local rules man.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:49 pm

FullRamboLSGrad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
First Offense wrote:Also - if you have typical mistakes (their/there, than/then, affect/effect or anything like that), ctrl+f for the common fuck up after you finish to make sure you catch them.


Thanks I'm solid with that, but have used that for proper nouns I tend to fuck up.

I have Microsoft Sam read the paper back to me before I turn it in and that seems to help.

My most recent screwup?

Writing a Motion for Summary Judgment which apparently according to local rules in my jurisdiction can't be more than 15 pages. Mine was 21. The remedy? The judge didn't read the last 6 pages :|


Bet the judge (or the clerk) still read the last six pages.



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