Practical tips for survival in biglaw

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hoorahray

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby hoorahray » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:I would opt for the longer commute to save money and peace out of biglaw sooner. i opted for the more expensive place with a shorter commute (paying 2200 instead of potentially1700-1800) and kind of wish i just had that extra cash and a 15-20 minute longer commute.


DC? This is my conundrum right now. I'm in a $2300 place that's a 15 minute door to door commute, but considering moving out to a 35-45 minute door to door that will only(ha) be around $1700.

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:02 pm

hoorahray wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would opt for the longer commute to save money and peace out of biglaw sooner. i opted for the more expensive place with a shorter commute (paying 2200 instead of potentially1700-1800) and kind of wish i just had that extra cash and a 15-20 minute longer commute.


DC? This is my conundrum right now. I'm in a $2300 place that's a 15 minute door to door commute, but considering moving out to a 35-45 minute door to door that will only(ha) be around $1700.


yep DC. Totally feel the pain and not sure what to do. Love my 20 minute commute but paying rent every month makes me sad. Not sure what to do about it. will the place you're looking at for $1700 be an upgrade over your current place? Seems like much better value as commute into dc gets longer

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:yep DC. Totally feel the pain and not sure what to do. Love my 20 minute commute but paying rent every month makes me sad. Not sure what to do about it. will the place you're looking at for $1700 be an upgrade over your current place? Seems like much better value as commute into dc gets longer


Other anon living in DC and going to SA at a firm 35mn away from where I live this summer. I am definitely planning to move closer - even if that means a likely $500 monthly rent bump - after I graduate, provided that i stay at the same firm. Commuting in D.C., especially by metro, sucks massively. I guess not everyone minds, but the constant delays/breakdowns/single-tracking/nonsense drives me nuts.

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TLSModBot

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby TLSModBot » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:yep DC. Totally feel the pain and not sure what to do. Love my 20 minute commute but paying rent every month makes me sad. Not sure what to do about it. will the place you're looking at for $1700 be an upgrade over your current place? Seems like much better value as commute into dc gets longer


Other anon living in DC and going to SA at a firm 35mn away from where I live this summer. I am definitely planning to move closer - even if that means a likely $500 monthly rent bump - after I graduate, provided that i stay at the same firm. Commuting in D.C., especially by metro, sucks massively. I guess not everyone minds, but the constant delays/breakdowns/single-tracking/nonsense drives me nuts.

Eh I do an hour each way and honestly only hit serious metro delays once every other month really (Red line from Shady Grove).

I'm at the extreme end - got a nice house with backyard and pay 1500/mo mortgage. But then I've got kids and a dog so it makes more sense for me.

If you're unchildrened but looking for value I can't stress Takoma Park and Silver Spring enough. Great areas, affordable, and like 20-30 min commute

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby Londonbear » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:yep DC. Totally feel the pain and not sure what to do. Love my 20 minute commute but paying rent every month makes me sad. Not sure what to do about it. will the place you're looking at for $1700 be an upgrade over your current place? Seems like much better value as commute into dc gets longer


Other anon living in DC and going to SA at a firm 35mn away from where I live this summer. I am definitely planning to move closer - even if that means a likely $500 monthly rent bump - after I graduate, provided that i stay at the same firm. Commuting in D.C., especially by metro, sucks massively. I guess not everyone minds, but the constant delays/breakdowns/single-tracking/nonsense drives me nuts.


I agree about DC metro. It sucks MASSIVELY and seems to get worse with time if that's even possible considering how horrible it is already.

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:yep DC. Totally feel the pain and not sure what to do. Love my 20 minute commute but paying rent every month makes me sad. Not sure what to do about it. will the place you're looking at for $1700 be an upgrade over your current place? Seems like much better value as commute into dc gets longer


Other anon living in DC and going to SA at a firm 35mn away from where I live this summer. I am definitely planning to move closer - even if that means a likely $500 monthly rent bump - after I graduate, provided that i stay at the same firm. Commuting in D.C., especially by metro, sucks massively. I guess not everyone minds, but the constant delays/breakdowns/single-tracking/nonsense drives me nuts.


have you guys considered living on a line other than the red line? commute is way more reliable.

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:48 am

I'm looking at going out to Dunn Loring. Seems like condos come up every so often to rent for $1600-1800 close to the metro, and orange line is more reliable than red right now.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby ballouttacontrol » Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm looking at going out to Dunn Loring. Seems like condos come up every so often to rent for $1600-1800 close to the metro, and orange line is more reliable than red right now.


Sounds like some middle earth dwarven Minas tirith ass location

SLQ23902

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby SLQ23902 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:04 pm

Bumping this for some more tips.

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ronaldo09

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby ronaldo09 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:34 pm

SLQ23902 wrote:Bumping this for some more tips.


In general?

HBfan1

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby HBfan1 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:24 pm

Cogburn87 wrote:
DELG wrote:This guy suggests being middle class and white, probably smart

http://www.bcgsearch.com/article/900045 ... -Law-Firm/


I think this dude's stuff has been posted here before. If I recall correctly he's a "clause 9.2 and the way it works with 7.6"-level sociopath.


His posts are brutally honest and a must-read for anyone entering biglaw. There's not much else, because few lawyers are willing to be honest. The posts on TLS are moronic and clueless fantasy from law students. For example, they would have you believe that because you "get along" with a few people during interviews, you have now entered into something as strong as a binding contract with them guaranteeing that they will treat you well and ensure that you will not be laid off. Same thing for a firm's "culture," which they have no clue about but like to imagine. To give you a sense of how stupid the people posting here are -- Harrison Barnes literally owns TLS. He owns the site they're posting on, yet this poster just called him a "sociopath" for writing honest posts. TLS is the biggest amalgam of frightening idiocy you will find on the internet. Good news is you get exactly what you deserve for listening to the bullshit on here.

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I guess this is related to surviving biglaw at least indirectly. Is it wise to rent a condo one or two blocks away from Grove St PATH station in NJ and do a 30-40 minute (google says its 33 minutes, but is it really?) commute to Midtown East 5-7 times a week? I could cut this commute down to 15-20 minutes if I rent a condo near the 4 5 in UES (forget Astoria sunnyside etc.) but is this alternative really worth spending an extra 7-9k a year (considering NYC tax, COL, increased fed tax, PATH card, could be more depending on my SO income)? I think its aprox 110 hours more at most in a car or train a year vs commuting from UES. Thanks in advance.

Do not do this unless you have a very compelling (more than just avoiding city tax / saving money) reason to live in Jersey. You are talking about a 45 minute commute in every morning (worse if the PATH is fucked up, which it often is). It's also a two-step commute, because you'll take the PATH to Penn Station, then you'll have to change trains at least once more, or you'll have to walk across and uptown to get to your firm (assuming your Midtown East firm is in the 40s or 50s on the east side, as most of them are). Driving to Jersey is often not the fastest option because you are reliant on two tunnels and if they are slow, your commute will take ages - so your ride back in a car at 2am will also take 45 minutes.

If you have no other location concerns, just rent a place in midtown east - it's not really more expensive than anywhere else in Manhattan on the 45 and you can walk to work.

objctnyrhnr

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby objctnyrhnr » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:05 am

I’m going to take the minority approach and say live within several blocks of work, no matter what it costs. People talk about trying to get out as fast as possible, but not commuting will cause you to enjoy it way more and, perhaps, not want to get out as quickly as possible.

Although I obviously understand the rationale, I am surprised that my view is not shared by more people on this thread. Biglaw market is lots of money per year. You can afford whatever you want in rent. IMHO, this is the easiest way to turn dollars into happiness/day-to-day enjoyability.

Will you save less? Absolutely. Will it be worth it in the end because 1) you might stay in biglaw for longer and 2) you won’t hate your life when it gets busy? absolutely, in my opinion.

Maybe it goes to the fundamentally different philosophies of people starting in biglaw—maximize cash on low living standards and get out ASAP, or treat it like an actual career stop and not think about your exit as soon as you enter (like...I dunno...a normal person starting a normal job). Personally, I don’t see why anybody would want to go into any job that they anticipate absolutely despising and wanting to leave. Seems like almost a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Of course, very reasonable minds will differ on this issue.

worklifewhat

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby worklifewhat » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:49 am

objctnyrhnr wrote:I’m going to take the minority approach and say live within several blocks of work, no matter what it costs. People talk about trying to get out as fast as possible, but not commuting will cause you to enjoy it way more and, perhaps, not want to get out as quickly as possible.

Although I obviously understand the rationale, I am surprised that my view is not shared by more people on this thread. Biglaw market is lots of money per year. You can afford whatever you want in rent. IMHO, this is the easiest way to turn dollars into happiness/day-to-day enjoyability.

Will you save less? Absolutely. Will it be worth it in the end because 1) you might stay in biglaw for longer and 2) you won’t hate your life when it gets busy? absolutely, in my opinion.

Maybe it goes to the fundamentally different philosophies of people starting in biglaw—maximize cash on low living standards and get out ASAP, or treat it like an actual career stop and not think about your exit as soon as you enter (like...I dunno...a normal person starting a normal job). Personally, I don’t see why anybody would want to go into any job that they anticipate absolutely despising and wanting to leave. Seems like almost a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Of course, very reasonable minds will differ on this issue.


I 100% agree with this perspective. I lived within walking distance of work my first few years and now live far away and the commute is a huge part of the reason I’m looling to leave. I have kids and commuting is time you’ll never get back. Saving a couple hundred bucks isn’t worth the loss of time IMO.

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:53 am

worklifewhat wrote:
objctnyrhnr wrote:I’m going to take the minority approach and say live within several blocks of work, no matter what it costs. People talk about trying to get out as fast as possible, but not commuting will cause you to enjoy it way more and, perhaps, not want to get out as quickly as possible.

Although I obviously understand the rationale, I am surprised that my view is not shared by more people on this thread. Biglaw market is lots of money per year. You can afford whatever you want in rent. IMHO, this is the easiest way to turn dollars into happiness/day-to-day enjoyability.

Will you save less? Absolutely. Will it be worth it in the end because 1) you might stay in biglaw for longer and 2) you won’t hate your life when it gets busy? absolutely, in my opinion.

Maybe it goes to the fundamentally different philosophies of people starting in biglaw—maximize cash on low living standards and get out ASAP, or treat it like an actual career stop and not think about your exit as soon as you enter (like...I dunno...a normal person starting a normal job). Personally, I don’t see why anybody would want to go into any job that they anticipate absolutely despising and wanting to leave. Seems like almost a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Of course, very reasonable minds will differ on this issue.


I 100% agree with this perspective. I lived within walking distance of work my first few years and now live far away and the commute is a huge part of the reason I’m looling to leave. I have kids and commuting is time you’ll never get back. Saving a couple hundred bucks isn’t worth the loss of time IMO.


Completely agree with this. First year biglaw here and it has been a life saver living a couple blocks from work.

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:06 pm

nealric wrote:Practice selective incompetence as a junior. If you get assigned a project from a slave driving ogre, don't do a bang up job. Do enough not to make the partner rant and rave, but not so much the partner wants to work with you again. If you get assigned a project from someone good to work with, pour your heart and soul into it. Be careful and be sensitive to firm politics when you do this.

If you end up the go-to for a difficult partner, your life is going to be miserable. If you end up working for good partners, biglaw is quite tolerable.


As a biglaw litigation senior associate, I have learned that the key in biglaw litigation is to do a kickass job for the first senior-associate/partner you end up working for, so that that person will then take you from job to job. Believe it or not, it may be safer to work for someone with a "slave-driving" reputation rather than going from partner to partner. The goal is to minimize the number of reviews you get from partners. The higher the number of partners, the higher the chances are that they will have something negative to say about you. So the politically smart thing to do is to try to work with as few partners as possible, and you can only do this by becoming one partner's slave, and constantly asking work from that partner. Of course, it makes it easier if that partner is a decent person. As a junior associate, the equivalent would be a senior associate that takes you from project to project.

I learned this the hard way. At my firm, think Cravath type shop, all sixth year associates go up for partnership review at the beginning of their 6th year. It is the first time where all partners sit in one room and discuss each associate individually. The dynamic is like America's Next Top Model, where everyone who has worked with you is encouraged to say something mean about your work (with the goal of eliminating someone). If you only worked with 1/2 partner the whole time because you were that partner's slave, chances are that no partner will have anything negative to say about you (even if they want to), and those 1/2 partners you have worked with consistently will be more inclined to sing your praises. That is how people make partner.

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I learned this the hard way. At my firm, think Cravath type shop, all sixth year associates go up for partnership review at the beginning of their 6th year. It is the first time where all partners sit in one room and discuss each associate individually. The dynamic is like America's Next Top Model, where everyone who has worked with you is encouraged to say something mean about your work (with the goal of eliminating someone). If you only worked with 1/2 partner the whole time because you were that partner's slave, chances are that no partner will have anything negative to say about you (even if they want to), and those 1/2 partners you have worked with consistently will be more inclined to sing your praises. That is how people make partner.
At places I've worked, this would not be a good strategy, because associates need fairly broad partner support to make partner. I agree that you don't want negative reviews, and that you definitely do want partners who like you a lot and will advocate for you, but unless your partner advocate is very important, I think 1 or 2 partners is not going to be enough.

RaceJudicata

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby RaceJudicata » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
worklifewhat wrote:
objctnyrhnr wrote:I’m going to take the minority approach and say live within several blocks of work, no matter what it costs. People talk about trying to get out as fast as possible, but not commuting will cause you to enjoy it way more and, perhaps, not want to get out as quickly as possible.

Although I obviously understand the rationale, I am surprised that my view is not shared by more people on this thread. Biglaw market is lots of money per year. You can afford whatever you want in rent. IMHO, this is the easiest way to turn dollars into happiness/day-to-day enjoyability.

Will you save less? Absolutely. Will it be worth it in the end because 1) you might stay in biglaw for longer and 2) you won’t hate your life when it gets busy? absolutely, in my opinion.

Maybe it goes to the fundamentally different philosophies of people starting in biglaw—maximize cash on low living standards and get out ASAP, or treat it like an actual career stop and not think about your exit as soon as you enter (like...I dunno...a normal person starting a normal job). Personally, I don’t see why anybody would want to go into any job that they anticipate absolutely despising and wanting to leave. Seems like almost a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Of course, very reasonable minds will differ on this issue.


I 100% agree with this perspective. I lived within walking distance of work my first few years and now live far away and the commute is a huge part of the reason I’m looling to leave. I have kids and commuting is time you’ll never get back. Saving a couple hundred bucks isn’t worth the loss of time IMO.


Completely agree with this. First year biglaw here and it has been a life saver living a couple blocks from work.


Totally get either side of live close vs not... but for me (just finished first year), my commute was my savior. About 30 min train each way. This gives me time to (1) jot down my list for the day so I don’t feel overwhelmed in the morning, and more importantly, (2) totally decompress and unwind in the evening.

Hutz_and_Goodman

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:53 pm

I read on the subway in to work which I enjoy. Anecdotally it seems that people who live very close to work don’t love it because they can never really “get away from” work and when something comes up that needs someone in the office the person who lives nearby is asked to do it.

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goldenflash19

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby goldenflash19 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:06 pm

I’m trying to learn a foreign language and use my subway time to do language learning apps and/or read and watch the news in that language. I genuinely enjoy my commute time and actually look forward to it. If I lived within walking distance to the office, I probably wouldn’t be making as much progress.

SplitMyPants

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Re: Practical tips for survival in biglaw

Postby SplitMyPants » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:28 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:I read on the subway in to work which I enjoy. Anecdotally it seems that people who live very close to work don’t love it because they can never really “get away from” work and when something comes up that needs someone in the office the person who lives nearby is asked to do it.


first rule of living close is to not talk about living so close



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