Litigation NY: STB vs. Latham vs. DPW Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

I was fortunate enough to get offers from all of these firms in NY. I definitely want to do litigation. Long-term, I am interested in becoming an AUSA, but if I like the place that I'm at I would definitely stay. I would love to hear informed opinions on the litigation practices at these firms.

Additionally, some concerns/thoughts:
- I liked the people at STB the best, and STB is great overall, but it seems to be more known for its corporate practice, particularly PE. Does Simpson have a top-tier litigation practice? Or are they really just buoyed by their corporate practice?
- STB makes people in litigation "generalists" so there is virtually no specialization there. Would that hurt me in terms of becoming an AUSA down the line?
- Latham seems to have a lot of its great litigation in its DC office, but the practice isn't as big in NY. Can any Latham litigators or any people who know about Latham litigation speak to this?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[Anonymous User]

STB and DPW are basically at the same level, litigation-wise, in NYC. I wouldn't be worried about STB being not quite up to the same level as DPW--that's just not true. Both are corporate firms first, but both have equally strong litigation practices as well. I would say that litigation at Latham is not their specialty in NYC, and, while they have a great litigation practice as well (not only in DC but also in LA), it's not as well regarded as STB and DPW for litigation in NYC specifically.

Can't speak to generalist vs. early specialization in AUSA hiring from experience, but I imagine it makes zero difference. The relevant skills for being an AUSA you build from the litigation aspects of litigation, not whether that litigation was IP or antitrust or securities or labor or mass torts or white collar or whatever. And USAOs hire from all of the top firms basically equally--just not going to make a difference whether you're at STB or DPW.

At this level, I'd go with which firm you liked best on a personal level, which is STB. The professional differences between STB and DPW are going to be very small (and on each difference could cut one way or the other), while I don't think Latham for NYC litigation should be a serious contender with STB and DPW.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in the same exact boat - looking at the same 3 firms, hoping to jump to a USAO at some point - and I'm leaning Simpson. You're only a generalist for the first couple of years (which I actually think is a good thing), and they definitely have a top ranked litigation department (Band #1 in Chambers, etc.). I think DPW technically has a stronger connection to the SDNY USAO, but I doubt that it's too significant, and I also liked the people at STB better.

Would love to hear others' thoughts, though!

[AdamDeMamp]

If you want to be an AUSA then I would go to DPW. They and Debevoise are the firms where the pipeline to SDNY/EDNY AUSA are the strongest

[Anonymous User]

If you want to be an AUSA then I would go to DPW. They and Debevoise are the firms where the pipeline to SDNY/EDNY AUSA are the strongest

OP here. Thanks for all of the advice so far. I got that impression about DPW with their lit practice- mainly because of their strength in Chambers across the board- especially in white collar work (band 1 vs. STB band 3). I know there is more to life and firms than Chambers, but that disparity was the basis for questions.

[Anonymous User]

There are two things that matter when trying to jump from BigLaw to an USAO - litigation experience and connections. Obviously having a lawfirm with a prestigious name is helpful, but all three firms are very prestigious. You could get great litigation (ideally courtroom) experience at any of these firms, and you could make connections with former AUSA partners at any of these firms. Some of it will come down to luck, but I really doubt it will ultimately matter which firm you choose. Go to the firm you liked the best. All else equal, STB and DPW are probably viewed as slightly more prestigious than Latham, but you should go to the place that you think you will enjoy working at for the next 5+ years of your life.

[thesealocust]

If you want to maximize the odds of your legal career getting cut abruptly and involuntarily short, Latham is a safe bed.

[Anonymous User]

If you want to maximize the odds of your legal career getting cut abruptly and involuntarily short, Latham is a safe bed.

OP here. I only want a comfy bed, not a safe one.

It seems like based on all your sage anon input that STB actually has a lit practice comparable to DPW. My impression going in was that for litigation, especially white collar/ausa connections, it was DPW > Latham > STB. Encouraging news from you kids re: STB lit. Good to hear. The Latham layoffs are a big consideration.

[parkslope]

If you want to be an AUSA then I would go to DPW. They and Debevoise are the firms where the pipeline to SDNY/EDNY AUSA are the strongest

Is there any evidence for this?

[Anonymous User]

bump

[Anonymous User]

If you want to be an AUSA then I would go to DPW. They and Debevoise are the firms where the pipeline to SDNY/EDNY AUSA are the strongest

Is there any evidence for this?

There's tons of evidence for this. Davis Polk is known as the EDNY us attorneys office feeder (and with PW/Deb/CSM, the SDNY one as well). Just look at the core litigation partnership (Andres, MacBride, Gesser, ect.).

NYU and CLS faculty -- and the SDNY chambers -- are swarming with former DPW associates who did a stint in USAO.

That doesn't make Simpson's lit group any less renown, it just doesn't have the same reputation for sending junior attorneys to AUSA.

[Anonymous User]

parkslope wrote:
AdamDeMamp wrote:
If you want to be an AUSA then I would go to DPW. They and Debevoise are the firms where the pipeline to SDNY/EDNY AUSA are the strongest


Is there any evidence for this?


There's tons of evidence for this. Davis Polk is known as the EDNY us attorneys office feeder (and with PW/Deb/CSM, the SDNY one as well). Just look at the core litigation partnership (Andres, MacBride, Gesser, ect.).

NYU and CLS faculty -- and the SDNY chambers -- are swarming with former DPW associates who did a stint in USAO.

That doesn't make Simpson's lit group any less renown, it just doesn't have the same reputation for sending junior attorneys to AUSA.

OP here. Yeah, that was kind of my gut feeling about this- I had heard about DPW's success in that regard. I really like the people at STB and they have actually done a great job of recruiting me for litigation since my offer, but the DPW connections to SDNY/EDNY may be too strong for me to pass up given my aspirations.

[smaug]

If you want to be an AUSA then I would go to DPW. They and Debevoise are the firms where the pipeline to SDNY/EDNY AUSA are the strongest

Is there any evidence for this?

There's tons of evidence for this. Davis Polk is known as the EDNY us attorneys office feeder (and with PW/Deb/CSM, the SDNY one as well). Just look at the core litigation partnership (Andres, MacBride, Gesser, ect.).

NYU and CLS faculty -- and the SDNY chambers -- are swarming with former DPW associates who did a stint in USAO.

That doesn't make Simpson's lit group any less renown, it just doesn't have the same reputation for sending junior attorneys to AUSA.

This is absurd. Just so people playing at home are aware.

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous User wrote:
parkslope wrote:
AdamDeMamp wrote:
If you want to be an AUSA then I would go to DPW. They and Debevoise are the firms where the pipeline to SDNY/EDNY AUSA are the strongest


Is there any evidence for this?


There's tons of evidence for this. Davis Polk is known as the EDNY us attorneys office feeder (and with PW/Deb/CSM, the SDNY one as well). Just look at the core litigation partnership (Andres, MacBride, Gesser, ect.).

NYU and CLS faculty -- and the SDNY chambers -- are swarming with former DPW associates who did a stint in USAO.

That doesn't make Simpson's lit group any less renown, it just doesn't have the same reputation for sending junior attorneys to AUSA.

This is absurd. Just so people playing at home are aware.

Please explain why that is absurd. Sure, maybe it is splitting hairs here, but OP is trying to make the best decision of him/her

[smaug]

Maybe my info is bad but I've been told repeatedly and by people who have actually made the biglaw-> USAO move that your firm doesn't matter as much as you'd think. I'm sure that DPW does fine- it attracts solid candidates.

The idea that DPW (or PW, or anyone else) is a feeder for USAO is silly to me, because I'm fairly certain that no such thing exists in NYC.

But, uh, nice talk/enjoy your time with the lovely people of DPW.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if this was what Smaug was referring to, but the line "NYU and CLS faculty -- and the SDNY chambers -- are swarming with former DPW associates who did a stint in USAO" is patently false. I recently graduated from one of those schools and clerked in SDNY, and it's just not true.

OP -- if you like STB better, go there. If you actually liked DPW more then go there, but it doesn't seem like it. When people say DPW has a better "pipeline" to the USAO than STB, that really means that a DPW associate may have a 30% chance of jumping to a USAO if they try, while a STB associate may only have a 28% chance. Obviously I made those numbers up, but, IMO, if you are the type of person that is going to be able to set yourself up to move to a USAO, I really doubt that it will hurt you that you are coming from STB (where I believe there are several former AUSAs working in the white collar division, btw) as opposed to DPW.

[Anonymous User]

It looks like OP is looking for a reason to go to Davis Polk, so here's one -- it's a great firm. But peer firms are peer firms are peer firms, and Simpson and Davis are about as "peer" and similar as it gets.
- Davis Polk Summer

[VulcanVulcanVulcan]

Anonymous User wrote:
parkslope wrote:
AdamDeMamp wrote:
If you want to be an AUSA then I would go to DPW. They and Debevoise are the firms where the pipeline to SDNY/EDNY AUSA are the strongest


Is there any evidence for this?


There's tons of evidence for this. Davis Polk is known as the EDNY us attorneys office feeder (and with PW/Deb/CSM, the SDNY one as well). Just look at the core litigation partnership (Andres, MacBride, Gesser, ect.).

NYU and CLS faculty -- and the SDNY chambers -- are swarming with former DPW associates who did a stint in USAO.

That doesn't make Simpson's lit group any less renown, it just doesn't have the same reputation for sending junior attorneys to AUSA.

This is absurd. Just so people playing at home are aware.

Please explain why that is absurd. Sure, maybe it is splitting hairs here, but OP is trying to make the best decision of him/her

"is known as"

"doesn't have the same reputation"

So there's no real evidence. If some of the V10 firms were significantly more connected than others in this regard, it would be an absolute scandal. What about DPW would make it that much better than other peer firms? It's white collar practice isn't any better, its associates aren't any smarter, than it doesn't poach from SDNY/EDNY any more than any other V10.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. I picked DPW. Talked with lots of practicing litigators at major firms in NY (who didn't work at STB or DPW) to hear their opinions, and they almost unanimously said that DPW has a stronger track record of placing associates at USAOs & DOJ, but that STB probably does a great job too. I also talked with attorneys at both places, and the attorneys at DPW said that expressing a desire to work for a USAO is typical, desired, and can be comfortably discussed in the open- they help you get these jobs. I'm sure its similar at STB, but it didn't seem as much of a priority there. I spoke with people at STB that said that if you wind up doing white collar work there after a year or two (only 3 partners do it there vs. close to 15 at DPW), that's pretty much all that you're going to be doing. I'd rather have diverse experience. Overall, I felt marginally more comfortable with my desired career outcomes at DPW. Thanks all for your help.