Georgetown - EIW 2015 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anon from above. Thanks for the advice. I've bumped Kirkland a few spots and put W&C first. I'm really hoping for interest from either W&C, Wilmer or A&P For some reason I really like Hogan, which is why it's so high on my list.

[Anonymous User]

I just called the career office to ask whether it's just resume or whether you attach writing sample and transcripts, and they said no. So does someone else wants to say this is incorrect, or verify...?

[BmoreOrLess]

I just called the career office to ask whether it's just resume or whether you attach writing sample and transcripts, and they said no. So does someone else wants to say this is incorrect, or verify...?

I just got the same, and the handbook doesn't say anything about transcripts or writing samples other than to bring them to interviews. I figured it was just resumes since the 1L feb interview program had upload slots for writing samples, transcripts, etc.

[theotherone823]

I just called the career office to ask whether it's just resume or whether you attach writing sample and transcripts, and they said no. So does someone else wants to say this is incorrect, or verify...?

I just got the same, and the handbook doesn't say anything about transcripts or writing samples other than to bring them to interviews. I figured it was just resumes since the 1L feb interview program had upload slots for writing samples, transcripts, etc.

Also if you try to do the Request for Resumes thing, that does specifically ask for a transcript, cover letter, and writing sample in addition to the resume. So it seems like if you needed it, Simplicity would prompt you for it.

[Anonymous User]

^I asked my counselor about this, and they said resume only.

Top third, 3.5x, want litigation or regulatory work preferably in DC but would be okay with NY; ties to FL so have some of those in there too. K-JD, interesting opportunities this summer but not a whole lot of WE.

Top 30:
Venable DC
Hogan Lovells DC
Fried Frank DC
Sidley Austin DC
Wiley Rein DC
Jones Day DC
Fried Frank NY
Baker Botts DC
Akin Gump DC
Willkie Farr NY
Sidley Austin NY
Freshfields DC
Simpson Thacher NY
Allen & Overy NY
White & Case NY
Dechert NY
Milbank DC
Weil NY
Orrick DC
McDermott DC
Cadwalader NY
Norton Rose NY
Kirkland NY
Morrison Foerster DC
Morgan Lewis Miami
Latham DC
Baker McKenzie NY
Arnold & Porter DC
Cooley DC
Kirkland DC

-kingtut

[TLSModBot]

Anon from above. Thanks for the advice. I've bumped Kirkland a few spots and put W&C first. I'm really hoping for interest from either W&C, Wilmer or A&P For some reason I really like Hogan, which is why it's so high on my list.

Still no callsign. Your callsign is now Stinky Pete.

Stinky Pete: Hogan is not a bad firm but at your level it's more a 'safety' than an ideal first choice (inasmuch as that's a thing in OCI). Hogan is doing great things on the professional development front but work-wise isn't at the top tier for much, especially compared to some others on your list. That being said, I have plenty of friends at Hogan and they seem happy enough and adequately tasked.

[TLSModBot]

Kingtut: your ordering looks pretty good. Consider putting some additonal higher up firms like Gibson and Wilmer at the bottom - you never know. It won't affect your chances at getting bids from places you're more competitive, and if you did so.ehow get overriding preselects from those top tier firms, well, that's a good thing.

[Anonymous User]

Still no callsign. Your callsign is now Stinky Pete.

Stinky Pete: Hogan is not a bad firm but at your level it's more a 'safety' than an ideal first choice (inasmuch as that's a thing in OCI). Hogan is doing great things on the professional development front but work-wise isn't at the top tier for much, especially compared to some others on your list. That being said, I have plenty of friends at Hogan and they seem happy enough and adequately tasked.

Point taken, thanks.

-Stinky (that stuck)

[Anonymous User]

Updated bidlist. 3.5x (about top 20-25%), mainly looking at NY/DC white collar lit. Critique away!

Debevoise (NY)
Skadden (NY)
Davis Polk (NY)
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Latham (NY)
Freshfields (NY)
Sidley Austin (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)
Williams & Connolly (DC)
Shearman & Sterling (NY)
Steptoe & Johnson (DC)
Simpson Thatcher (NY)
Kramer Levin (NY)
Latham (DC)
WilmerHale (NY)
Allen & Overy (DC)
Kirkland Ellis (DC)
Baker Botts (DC)
SullCrom (NY)
Jones Day (DC)
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Fried Frank (NY)
Akin Gump (NY)
Paul Weiss (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Skadden (DC)
Crowell & Moring (DC)
Cahill Gordon (NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Goodwin Procter (NY)
Proskauer (NY)
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Paul Hastings (DC)
Ropes & Gray (NY)
Wilkie Farr (NY)
Covington (DC)
Cleary (NY)
Baker & Hostetler (NY)
King & Spalding (DC)
Cadwalader (NY)
Boies Schiller (NY)
Goodwin Procter (Boston)
Ropes & Gray (Boston)
Choate (Boston)
Morgan Lewis (Philly)
Weil (NY)

- APS

[Anonymous User]

Updated Bidlist, if anyone has any critiques I would really appreciate it and would be super helpful because I am still unsure if I have these in a good order

Just outside top 15%. Hoping to do transactional work.

Simpson & Thatcher (NY)
Latham and Watkins (NY)
Kirkland & Ellis (NY)
Wilmerhale (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
Sidley Austin (NY)
Ropes & Gray (NY)
Fried Frank (NY)
Skadden (NY)
Weil Gotshal & Manges (NY)
O’Melveny (NY)
Paul Weiss (NY)
Milbank Tweed (NY)
Hogan Lovells (NY)
K&L Gates (NY)
Paul Hastings (NY)
White and Case (NY)
Morgan Lewis Botkius (NY)
Foley & Lardner (NY)
Cahill Gordon (NY)
Reed Smith (NY)
Goodwin Procter (NY)
Willikie Farr & Gallagher (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Cooley (NY)
Alston & Bird (NY)
Shearman & Sterling (NY)
Cadwalder Wickersham & Taft (NY)
Akin Gump (NY)
Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe (NY)
Schulte Roth & Zabel (NY)
Shepard Mullin Richter & Hampton (NY)
Baker Hosteler (NY)
Stroock (NY)
McDermott Will & Emery (NY)
Allen & Overy (NY)
Holland & Knight (NY)
Kaye Scholer (NY)
Clifford Chance (NY)
Pillsbury (NY)
Linklaters (NY)
Freshfields (NY)
Kramer Levin (NY)
Chadbourne & Park (NY)
Pryor Cashman (NY)
Curtiss Mallet-Prevost (NY)
Brown Rudnick (NY)
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Davis Polk (NY)
Debevoise & Plimpton (NY)

- JC

[TLSModBot]

JC:

One question with your bidlist - would you really be happy with any of the firms in your list? With preselect you might get enough from lower ranked firms that you don't get your higher up lottery interviews.

If you haven't looked up these firms on Vault, Chambers, etc., do it and remove a couple. (My opinion/experience alert - take witg appropriate grain of salt!) Using all 50 slots is better for medianish folks or below. At 15% or above you should be more strategic - maybe do 40? At top 5% I wouldn't use more than 30 - I personally had 21 on my bidlist and got 11 out of those (and picked up 3 more on my own), but those 11 were all places I would've clicked with and/or gotten callbacks (I think).

[Anonymous User]

Capitol:

What's the benefit of using fewer bids?

[TLSModBot]

Capitol:

What's the benefit of using fewer bids?

It's a trade-off; there is a tension between your bids and preselects. More bids means more firms that get a look at you and more chance of getting the raw numbers of screener slots. But because preselects come first, any firm on your list can jump your rankings by preselecting you. So ultimately you'll get ~12-14 interviews after the bid cycle is run; if 10 come from preselects off the bottom of your rankings, then your bidlist is now really limiting you to 2-4 from the lottery.

If there legitimately 50 places that you A. Want to work at and B. Would actually extend you an offer realistically, then by all means use all bids. Otherwise, with higher grades comes the impetus to reduce the number a little.

If you're below top third I'd use all the bids because you can't afford to be as picky.

[Anonymous User]

That makes enough sense. I kinda assumed that lower ranked firms wouldn't waste their preselects on people who are unlikely to accept an offer.

[TLSModBot]

That makes enough sense. I kinda assumed that lower ranked firms wouldn't waste their preselects on people who are unlikely to accept an offer.

It's all very new so we don't really know how firms will use their preselects. This is only year 2 of the preselect system.

Top firms like A&P or WillCo will target top students exclusively (top 5% at the outside), but mid level firms? Nah, they're gonna likely go for your solid top 10 to top thirders - so if you're in that range and you wanna swing for the fences, a full interview roster with lower firms is gonna make that a lot harder.

[Anonymous User]

Hey Capitol, JC here.

Are there any firms on the list that you think definitely do not belong for someone wanting to do transactional in NYC?
I'm going on vault and nalp now but was curious if anything jumped out at you.

Thanks so much for all of your help, I really appreciate it!

[theotherone823]

That makes enough sense. I kinda assumed that lower ranked firms wouldn't waste their preselects on people who are unlikely to accept an offer.

It's all very new so we don't really know how firms will use their preselects. This is only year 2 of the preselect system.

Top firms like A&P or WillCo will target top students exclusively (top 5% at the outside), but mid level firms? Nah, they're gonna likely go for your solid top 10 to top thirders - so if you're in that range and you wanna swing for the fences, a full interview roster with lower firms is gonna make that a lot harder.

FWIW, what this Anon was thinking is more or less consistent with what I heard from OCS about how the pre-selects went last year. According to the person I spoke with, firms pre-selected students in their general target GPA range, not just from the top of the class, a fact the counselor I spoke with was kind of surprised by.

Also, will we find out which interviews were from pre-select and which were from the lottery?

[TLSModBot]

I never found out what was preselect and what was lottery. I don't know anyone else who did either except for those who were told that they were lottery and that they weren't going to get a callback no matter what (this was very rare I promise).

[Anonymous User]

No. OCS's stated policy is that they want students to prepare for all interviews equally. A student who knows he/she was preselected may be more casual about the interview, I suppose.

[TLSModBot]

Hey Capitol, JC here.

Are there any firms on the list that you think definitely do not belong for someone wanting to do transactional in NYC?
I'm going on vault and nalp now but was curious if anything jumped out at you.

Thanks so much for all of your help, I really appreciate it!

I know very little about NY relative practice strengths, sorry. DC guy through and through.

[Anonymous User]

Hey Capitol, JC here.

Are there any firms on the list that you think definitely do not belong for someone wanting to do transactional in NYC?
I'm going on vault and nalp now but was curious if anything jumped out at you.

Thanks so much for all of your help, I really appreciate it!

I know very little about NY relative practice strengths, sorry. DC guy through and through.

Capitol:

Do you remember how long it took to get your bid results back?

[TLSModBot]

Hey Capitol, JC here.

Are there any firms on the list that you think definitely do not belong for someone wanting to do transactional in NYC?
I'm going on vault and nalp now but was curious if anything jumped out at you.

Thanks so much for all of your help, I really appreciate it!

I know very little about NY relative practice strengths, sorry. DC guy through and through.

Capitol:

Do you remember how long it took to get your bid results back?

End of July. My email tells me it was July 29. Yes the wait is agonizing. Good prep for the waiting on callbacks I guess.

[Anonymous User]

Hey Capitol, JC here.

Are there any firms on the list that you think definitely do not belong for someone wanting to do transactional in NYC?
I'm going on vault and nalp now but was curious if anything jumped out at you.

Thanks so much for all of your help, I really appreciate it!

I know very little about NY relative practice strengths, sorry. DC guy through and through.

Capitol:

Do you remember how long it took to get your bid results back?

End of July. My email tells me it was July 29. Yes the wait is agonizing. Good prep for the waiting on callbacks I guess.

Oh, good. Ten days to tailor interview prep to the firms. That's just like Georgetown. Good, good, great.

[TLSModBot]

It goes without saying but seriously do not take advice from OCS. Their goals are not necessarily your goals. They want you to be conservative and get just any old biglaw gig so they can check that employed box. They don't care about finding a firm you like, could stand to stay in, or gives you the best opportunities. Just something to think about.

OCS serves one role - to put you in touch with former Summers and alumni who can actually give you the skinny on a firm. Make use of that if you haven't already.

[GULCPerson]

It's a trade-off; there is a tension between your bids and preselects. More bids means more firms that get a look at you and more chance of getting the raw numbers of screener slots. But because preselects come first, any firm on your list can jump your rankings by preselecting you. So ultimately you'll get ~12-14 interviews after the bid cycle is run; if 10 come from preselects off the bottom of your rankings, then your bidlist is now really limiting you to 2-4 from the lottery.

Explain this to me better, since I snuck in before pre-selects were a thing. If you get pre-selected by any firm on your list, it effectively bumps all of your existing bids down a spot?