Have you considered... Delaware?

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seespotrun
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby seespotrun » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:Does Skadden pay the same salary/bonus structure as the NYC office? For someone interested in doing corporate transactional work and living in Philly how would you rank Skadden, Dechert, and Morgan? And do most people who commute to Delaware drive or take the train? Thanks for starting this thread/answering all these questions.

Skadden DE does follow NYC lockstep salary and bonus.

At Skadden DE, the transactional work will be M&A. At Dechert and MLB, the transactional work will be more of a general corporate practice. That's a long way of saying that it's tough to rank the three because it's more about your preferences than anything else.

Most people commuting to DE drive.

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DELG
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby DELG » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:Does Skadden pay the same salary/bonus structure as the NYC office? For someone interested in doing corporate transactional work and living in Philly how would you rank Skadden, Dechert, and Morgan? And do most people who commute to Delaware drive or take the train? Thanks for starting this thread/answering all these questions.

My understanding is Skadden pays the same in DE as in NY.

Skadden is almost certainly a better corp trans play, in any of its offices.

Most people drive. SEPTA is not good for this stretch. Amtrak is better, but I think over $1k/mo for that monthly pass.

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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:37 am

Big 4 associate here, just want to chime in on the pros and cons. You definitely get much more bang for your buck here, although bonuses do not compare to what you get in NYC or other large markets. From what I see and having talked to friends in NY and other large markets, the hours are much better here, although this can vary tremendously by group and some juniors will work low 2000s.

Living in DE is fine if you are married. There are many pleasant suburbs within a short commute of downtown and a suburb in DE is just like a suburb anywhere else. NO ONE who works here lives downtown close to the crappy areas. If you're single, DE is not a great place to be, but the majority of young associates I know commute from Philly. It's only a 35 minute drive or so.

The practice itself is sophisticated, but narrow. Much of what I work on is routine and sometimes mundane, but not infrequently my group is called upon to advise on very complex and interesting areas of corporate law. This is the best part of practicing in DE.

Regarding exit options, the two most recent people to leave my firm went to a V10 in a large primary market and a V50 in NYC. Others have gone to prominent firms in secondary cities, local offices of large national firms, and smaller firms in town. I have noticed a correlation between the caliber of school you went to (T-14 vs. non T-14) and the quality of exit options, although in an admittedly small sample size.

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DELG
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby DELG » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have noticed a correlation between the caliber of school you went to (T-14 vs. non T-14) and the quality of exit options, although in an admittedly small sample size.

That's what I've seen as well.

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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:14 pm

Another Big 4 associate here. I agree with everything anon said above re: the pros and cons of practicing in Delaware. But I would caution anyone with an interest in litigation--particularly corporate litigation--not to expect the hours in DE to be any better than in NYC or other major markets.

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ymmv
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby ymmv » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:17 pm

Just to clarify anonymous' post, Philly being a "35 minute drive" from Wilmington assumes perfect world traffic conditions and zero construction or road closures, which would be something of a small miracle in the tristate highway system. I don't think I've ever made the trip during rush hour in less than 50 minutes, and with all the 95 roadwork it's taken me well over an hour many times. Hardly a pleasant long-term commute unless you're willing to shell out the big bucks for the Amtrak pass, but when you're already paying philly city tax who wants to do that.

Like DELG said, DE and south PA do have some nice little towns that make a lot more sense to me as workable living options, even if means having to travel a bit to enjoy Philly on the weekends.

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DELG
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby DELG » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Another Big 4 associate here. I agree with everything anon said above re: the pros and cons of practicing in Delaware. But I would caution anyone with an interest in litigation--particularly corporate litigation--not to expect the hours in DE to be any better than in NYC or other major markets.

I don't know if this is accurate. I think NYC lawyers fill in more time with more doc review, and we just get our hands on less of that.

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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:55 pm

From talking to people in my office, the 35-minute drive is the norm. We start a bit late in my group, which helps a lot, but generally the traffic is worse the other way (north into Philly). If there is road work on 95, you can always detour to 495, and vice-versa, so this isn't an insurmountable issue.

Personally, 35 min is still too much for me, and I think if you're going to be here long-term it makes sense to move closer. But it's very doable from Philly on most days.

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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:48 pm

Anon from above. I guess hours are firm-dependent because corp lit associates at my firm bill 2400+ annually. The busiest associates come in somewhere between 2800 and 3000.

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DELG
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby DELG » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anon from above. I guess hours are firm-dependent because corp lit associates at my firm bill 2400+ annually. The busiest associates come in somewhere between 2800 and 3000.

Wow. Goes to show, it's really hard to predict going in what your hours will be.

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DELG
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby DELG » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:23 pm

Something I forgot to mention w/r/t compensation, I think you'll find DE firms are more likely to pay for more/all of your healthcare and have better retirement contribution/profit sharing plans than NY firms.

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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anon from above. I guess hours are firm-dependent because corp lit associates at my firm bill 2400+ annually. The busiest associates come in somewhere between 2800 and 3000.


Big 4 corporate transactional. Ditto.

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seespotrun
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby seespotrun » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anon from above. I guess hours are firm-dependent because corp lit associates at my firm bill 2400+ annually. The busiest associates come in somewhere between 2800 and 3000.


Big 4 corporate transactional. Ditto.

MNAT?

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby BmoreOrLess » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:23 am

Is 'I really like Baltimore and want to stay in the area, but realize corporate work is much better in Wilmington' a good enough excuse? Or am I better off just saying I love to rage in Dewey and want to be closer?

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seespotrun
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby seespotrun » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:28 am

Dewey is the better answer.

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DELG
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby DELG » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:38 am

seespotrun wrote:Dewey is the better answer.

Saying you like Baltimore isn't so bad though because, look, now we know you have terrible taste in cities and won't mind.

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DELG
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby DELG » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:26 am

Working in Delaware is like the rabbit farm in Watership Down.

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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:02 pm

How's associate attrition? Is there a lot of turnover at the 3-5 year mark?

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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:13 pm

anyone have experience with the Delaware Minority Job Fair in Wilmington? I got a handful of interviews and am planning to go, just curious what I should expect the experience to be like

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DELG
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby DELG » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How's associate attrition? Is there a lot of turnover at the 3-5 year mark?

It might be somewhat better than other large law firms, but probably comparable.

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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:45 pm

DELG wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:What kind of grades?

PM me and we'll talk about where is realistic


3.50 (above median) at lower t14. Shot at DE biglaw? Absolutely no ties to DE.

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DELG
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby DELG » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
DELG wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:What kind of grades?

PM me and we'll talk about where is realistic


3.50 (above median) at lower t14. Shot at DE biglaw? Absolutely no ties to DE.

If you have a good pitch, absolutely.

Anonymous User
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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:anyone have experience with the Delaware Minority Job Fair in Wilmington? I got a handful of interviews and am planning to go, just curious what I should expect the experience to be like



I have 3 interviews. Is it kosher for non–minorities to attend?

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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:46 pm

3.2X at lower T14 prohibitive?

Are ties to NY a positive (proximity), or will they be seen as a threat to DE firms?

TLS generally discourages applying to multiple offices of the same firm. If I've already hit NYC offices pitching interest in corporate transactional work generally, am I sunk at their DE offices?

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Re: Have you considered... Delaware?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3.2X at lower T14 prohibitive?

Are ties to NY a positive (proximity), or will they be seen as a threat to DE firms?

TLS generally discourages applying to multiple offices of the same firm. If I've already hit NYC offices pitching interest in corporate transactional work generally, am I sunk at their DE offices?


I was in this position. Had my pick of firms in DE.

Ties to NY will not help all that much except for the fact that, as someone from the East Coast, you're (hopefully) somewhat familiar with where DE is on the map. Practice your "why DE" pitch (corporate law, chancery shit, big city practice with that small town COL, etc.).

Re: double dipping in NYC & DE - have a decent answer for why DE and you should be okay. It's not like you're applying to the Palo Alto and Wilmington offices of WSGR, pledging your child's naming rights to both offices. Again, practice your pitch and you'll be fine. Also, as this thread suggests, don't sleep on the Big 4. With some independent research, you might come to the (justifiable) conclusion that joining of them is a better bet than joining the satellite office of a biglaw firm in DE.




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