WUSTL EIW + Off campus Programs 2015 Forum

[Anonymous User]

This is probably a dumb question but the Chicago "walk around" program means we show up to the firm, right? Like get there extra early so you can check in with the building/firm receptionist before being shown into the interview room? While the NYC programs (both SEMW and MCGC) are all at the Doubletree? Trying to figure out if the room assignments for the Chicago firms mean anything or were just randomly put there by the firms.

[Anonymous User]

Wasn't the Texas off campus stuff supposed to be released today?

[Anonymous User]

If the firms still have all their available slots listed, does that mean they have not submitted their invitations yet? I count 3 Chicago and 2 NYC with their full 19-21 spots still listed

I'm guessing/hoping that's what it means....although Ropes & Gray for Chicago has done some preselect, they just had a high number of available slots.

Here's the firms...

Chicago
Morgan Lewis - 19 spots
Greenberg Traurig - 19 spots

New York
Shearman - 19 spots
Fried Frank - 19 spots

Has anyone gotten preselects for these? (MCGC)

[Anonymous User]

If the firms still have all their available slots listed, does that mean they have not submitted their invitations yet? I count 3 Chicago and 2 NYC with their full 19-21 spots still listed

I'm guessing/hoping that's what it means....although Ropes & Gray for Chicago has done some preselect, they just had a high number of available slots.

Here's the firms...

Chicago
Morgan Lewis - 19 spots
Greenberg Traurig - 19 spots

New York
Shearman - 19 spots
Fried Frank - 19 spots

Has anyone gotten preselects for these? (MCGC)

I have not. Ropes may have had specific interviewers select who they wanted to interview.

Shearman is out.

[bluedolphin]

We gon' be alright.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah OCI does better. Generally around same number of interview slots per firm and only one school to fill them with instead of mulitipe schools.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah OCI does better. Generally around same number of interview slots per firm and only one school to fill them with instead of mulitipe schools.

Are there increased cb percentages with the off campus programs since the stats are more competitive?

[Anonymous User]

How many people are people massmailing? This went nowhere like I thought it would.

[hoos89]

How many people are people massmailing? This went nowhere like I thought it would.

You should be mailing 300 firms/offices minimum. Probably more like 500. (IMO it's okay to send multiple apps to multiple offices as long as the offices have different recruiting contacts, but opinions on this vary).

Also it's not even August yet. Lots of firms are still focused more on wrapping up this year's summer program than on talking to people about next year's. Follow up sometime in early August with anyone who hasn't outright rejected you.

[Anonymous User]

How many people are people massmailing? This went nowhere like I thought it would.

You should be mailing 300 firms/offices minimum. Probably more like 500. (IMO it's okay to send multiple apps to multiple offices as long as the offices have different recruiting contacts, but opinions on this vary).

Also it's not even August yet. Lots of firms are still focused more on wrapping up this year's summer program than on talking to people about next year's. Follow up sometime in early August with anyone who hasn't outright rejected you.

Does massmailing include individual cover letters?

[hoos89]

It should, yes. They don't need to all be built from scratch, but it shouldn't be totally obvious that it's just a form letter. Greeting should be personalized (and address block if you're using PDFs), and you should reference the firm by name (don't just say "the firm" or "your firm"). You should also try to add something to each cover letter specific to each firm (sort of a " why X" paragraph) and you should mention your ties to the area (or why you want to be there if you have none).

[Anonymous User]

One token of advice for the desperate (which should be everyone until a job is in the pocket): If you think you have the credentials for a firm but were not selected for an interview, I would reach out to a SA (or a junior associate) at that firm so they can forward your materials to the right people.

At my NYC firm, we've been repeatedly asked for resumes of students they were unable to interview or who slipped through the cracks for whatever reason, if we think they'd be a good fit. The firm seem really serious about it.

There is literally nothing to lose at this point, and you may get an interview or a callback out of it.

Good luck everyone.

[Anonymous User]

any info on when we can expect OCI results?

[Anonymous User]

CSO told me July 20th

[bmmccb223]

How many people are people massmailing? This went nowhere like I thought it would.

You should be mailing 300 firms/offices minimum. Probably more like 500. (IMO it's okay to send multiple apps to multiple offices as long as the offices have different recruiting contacts, but opinions on this vary).

Also it's not even August yet. Lots of firms are still focused more on wrapping up this year's summer program than on talking to people about next year's. Follow up sometime in early August with anyone who hasn't outright rejected you.

I'm sorry but 500 seems extremely excessive...I wouldn't advise anyone to send materials so indiscriminately unless you're SOL due to grades. Also, in regards to the MCGC pre-selects, have the Chicago firms already made their selection? The system indicated "not invited" to the firms on Monday, switched to pending on Tuesday, and now, again, indicates "not invited." I received pre-select interviews for 12 out of the 17 positions I applied to in DC and NY, but, according to Symplicity, received no invites at any Chicago firms.

[Anonymous User]

Chicago is out. Ropes may have selections left. Look at the number next to the firm. That's how many interviews are unscheduled.

[bmmccb223]

Chicago is out. Ropes may have selections left. Look at the number next to the firm. That's how many interviews are unscheduled.

I'm not sure what that number means, because most of the firms (including the NY/DC ones) still have slots available. Also, almost every Chicago firm still has interview slots available. Either they are going to be making some additional selections today (deadline is 20th) or they are not going to take the number they indicated on Symplicity.

[WheatThins]

How many people are people massmailing? This went nowhere like I thought it would.

You should be mailing 300 firms/offices minimum. Probably more like 500. (IMO it's okay to send multiple apps to multiple offices as long as the offices have different recruiting contacts, but opinions on this vary).

Also it's not even August yet. Lots of firms are still focused more on wrapping up this year's summer program than on talking to people about next year's. Follow up sometime in early August with anyone who hasn't outright rejected you.

I'm sorry but 500 seems extremely excessive...I wouldn't advise anyone to send materials so indiscriminately unless you're SOL due to grades. Also, in regards to the MCGC pre-selects, have the Chicago firms already made their selection? The system indicated "not invited" to the firms on Monday, switched to pending on Tuesday, and now, again, indicates "not invited." I received pre-select interviews for 12 out of the 17 positions I applied to in DC and NY, but, according to Symplicity, received no invites at any Chicago firms.

Do you really want to leave open the possibility that you strike out and by the time you get around to mass mailing it's too late? Or would you rather have back-up interviews lined up if everything falls through.

I had about 20 interviews set up through mass mailing last year. You're hurting yourself by not giving yourself every oportunity possible.

[bmmccb223]

All I'm saying is that 500 is excessive unless you are in a really poor situation grade wise.

[lososos]

All I'm saying is that 500 is excessive unless you are in a really poor situation grade wise.

I think what they're saying is that even if you aren't in a really poor situation grade wise, there's little reason to limit your mailing when it doesn't take terribly long and the benefits could be pretty big. Also even people who aren't in a really poor situation grade wise can strike out. Why would not make as many opportunities available for yourself as you can? One way to do this is by mass mailing a lot of firms.

[bmmccb223]

I'm assuming that people will apply to around 50-100 positions through OCI. If you then apply to 500 additional firms, you're looking at upwards of 600 applications. There's about 48,000 law firms in the US that includes many that people would not think about applying to. That means you're applying to over 1% of ALL law firms in the US. Given that most people have a geographical preference, the percentage would be a lot higher when you look at the total number of regional law firms. Your time would be better spent researching a smaller number of firms and utilizing your connections to maximize your chances.

[hoos89]

All I'm saying is that 500 is excessive unless you are in a really poor situation grade wise.

Don't make the mistake of thinking your grades will guarantee anything. You go to WUSTL, not the T14. Anyone can strike out with the right combination of bad luck and bad strategy. A significant chunk of people who end up going to big law will have exactly one offer. The line between going 0/20 and 1/20 at OCI is pretty thin.

[chingwoo]

Chicago is out. Ropes may have selections left. Look at the number next to the firm. That's how many interviews are unscheduled.

I'm not sure what that number means, because most of the firms (including the NY/DC ones) still have slots available. Also, almost every Chicago firm still has interview slots available. Either they are going to be making some additional selections today (deadline is 20th) or they are not going to take the number they indicated on Symplicity.

It means that people are preselected for those slots but haven't scheduled. These are most likely people transferring, (and maybe people working abroad).

Its unclear what happens to those slots afterwards.

[bmmccb223]

All I'm saying is that 500 is excessive unless you are in a really poor situation grade wise.

Don't make the mistake of thinking your grades will guarantee anything. You go to WUSTL, not the T14. Anyone can strike out with the right combination of bad luck and bad strategy. A significant chunk of people who end up going to big law will have exactly one offer. The line between going 0/20 and 1/20 at OCI is pretty thin.

Look, I'm not discounting the value of mass-mailing, but I think it is a technique least adapted to getting you a job. 500 is just extreme and seems necessarily geared to getting you in an awkward position of getting interviews at firms for which you have no interest in working. I mean-what kind of firms are you applying to at 500?? I'd rather not practice law than practice at some third-tier firm that pays little and slowly drains my soul over the next decades of my career. Again, people may be in a situation in which they have no other choice, but I think most law students would be much better off taking a more focused approach to job applications.

[chingwoo]

All I'm saying is that 500 is excessive unless you are in a really poor situation grade wise.

Don't make the mistake of thinking your grades will guarantee anything. You go to WUSTL, not the T14. Anyone can strike out with the right combination of bad luck and bad strategy. A significant chunk of people who end up going to big law will have exactly one offer. The line between going 0/20 and 1/20 at OCI is pretty thin.

Look, I'm not discounting the value of mass-mailing, but I think it is a technique least adapted to getting you a job. 500 is just extreme and seems necessarily geared to getting you in an awkward position of getting interviews at firms for which you have no interest in working. I mean-what kind of firms are you applying to at 500?? I'd rather not practice law than practice at some third-tier firm that pays little and slowly drains my soul over the next decades of my career. Again, people may be in a situation in which they have no other choice, but I think most law students would be much better off taking a more focused approach to job applications.

If you are worried about working at a "third tier firm", you went to the wrong law school.

Realistically though, many people would rather be making 80-120 in a regional biglaw/midlaw type firm (where firm #500 roughly is) than striking out and having to do doc review. That may more accurately be described as "soul draining". On the plus side, maybe your doc review is for a "first tier firm".