Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

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greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:29 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:nah he didn't, because he was a goddamn SCOTUS clerk

were you a SCOTUS clerk greekdebtcrisis?


No and don't care too much about it as my career path is different. I have a couple of colleagues who already got scotus. They are good people who worked hard and made the right moves but even so scotus can be a crapshoot. Regardless, my thread cares about people who are going into transactional biglaw, and I don't think scotus clerks exit to transactional law.


are your SCOTUS clerk friends jealous of you, greekdebtcrisis?


I think they are on different career tracks. I can say that some people have positions that the scotus people envy.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:32 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:LOL. First years are utterly replaceable. If one tried to "negotiate," he or she would be laughed out of the room.

Also, I see law school hasn't taught you how to argue very well. You've made quite a few ad hominem attacks. Let me tell you that if this many people are telling you you're making shit up, you're making shit up. You're not so brilliant that you figured out the ONLY way to do this when nobody else can. Sorry to burst your bubble .


Wow, you really are reckless to this thread. Did you even work in biglaw btw?

Also, I'm not claiming I am brilliant. I am just sharing information about pro bono that I know would be useful to some.

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skers
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby skers » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:34 pm

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
skers wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:ah ok, so in your flame world how is work assigned, generally?

please keep developing the story, this has more potential


I don't think I follow your question. I think what you are trying to say is that firms assign work to their associates differently. Some firms have a strict form of assigning attorneys, others have a more relaxed (or eat what you kill) environment even with assigning attorneys. Regardless of the environment (because I frankly don't see where you are going with it), you are monitored pretty well: attorneys will routinely check not only what your billables are but also what youre working on...as one partner told my friend "there's always billable work for you to do here." If those firms see you putting too much work in pro bono, they contact you with an assignment that is "urgent" or even if it's not, it definitely has priority to your pro bono work. In fact your pro bono contacts are also there to fight with you--if you get too attached, they'll start saying "out of scope" (you'll have to argue with them that it's not out of scope) and make sure you are doing other work. I remember summering and this one dude was constantly harassed that he wasn't billing enough...he isn't at the firm anymore. Another person was billing 60/week and was yelled at by her senior who was checking her billables and saying she was wasting time on other projects.

I would say having negotiated a carve-out for your pro bono will do you wonders given the those fun stories.


lol at negotiating an at-will employment agreement.

You don't know what eat what you kill actually means and you're just throwing out a term that's kind of related that you heard one time from someone


Yes eat-what-you-kill is less for first year associates. What I mean by that statement is that you are freer to choose your assignments...e.g. if you don't have that much work (which would be surprising in this market), then you call up the assigning attorneys or you talk to seniors youve worked with for more work.

Also crazy that you think you can't negotiate an at-will employment agreement. I've negotiated salaries, stocks, etc in several at will employment agreements.


The phrase you're looking for is free market system. If you're going to pretend to know something about work practices at least do a better job of bullshitting to cover up your stupid.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:35 pm

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:LOL. First years are utterly replaceable. If one tried to "negotiate," he or she would be laughed out of the room.

Also, I see law school hasn't taught you how to argue very well. You've made quite a few ad hominem attacks. Let me tell you that if this many people are telling you you're making shit up, you're making shit up. You're not so brilliant that you figured out the ONLY way to do this when nobody else can. Sorry to burst your bubble .


Wow, you really are reckless to this thread. Did you even work in biglaw btw?

Also, I'm not claiming I am brilliant. I am just sharing information about pro bono that I know would be useful to some.


I'm trying to prevent people from taking these delusional posts seriously and somehow now I'm the reckless one. That's some impressive reasoning right there. I guess we know why you weren't a SCOTUS clerk.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:41 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:LOL. First years are utterly replaceable. If one tried to "negotiate," he or she would be laughed out of the room.

Also, I see law school hasn't taught you how to argue very well. You've made quite a few ad hominem attacks. Let me tell you that if this many people are telling you you're making shit up, you're making shit up. You're not so brilliant that you figured out the ONLY way to do this when nobody else can. Sorry to burst your bubble .


Wow, you really are reckless to this thread. Did you even work in biglaw btw?

Also, I'm not claiming I am brilliant. I am just sharing information about pro bono that I know would be useful to some.


I'm trying to prevent people from taking these delusional posts seriously and somehow now I'm the reckless one. That's some impressive reasoning right there. I guess we know why you weren't a SCOTUS clerk.


I don't know how you jump to some of your conclusions, but if you are trying to prevent people from trying to better their lives, then I don't see what skin you have in the game. You don't work in biglaw, you never made the claim that you did, and you are now telling people that they cannot negotiate anything for themselves in biglaw because they'd be laughed out of the room. Do you have any authority on this? I can at least make the claim that I summered in biglaw and have negotiated several at-will agreements straight out of law school.

What does clerking have anything to do with transactional/business career options?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:47 pm

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:LOL. First years are utterly replaceable. If one tried to "negotiate," he or she would be laughed out of the room.

Also, I see law school hasn't taught you how to argue very well. You've made quite a few ad hominem attacks. Let me tell you that if this many people are telling you you're making shit up, you're making shit up. You're not so brilliant that you figured out the ONLY way to do this when nobody else can. Sorry to burst your bubble .


Wow, you really are reckless to this thread. Did you even work in biglaw btw?

Also, I'm not claiming I am brilliant. I am just sharing information about pro bono that I know would be useful to some.


I'm trying to prevent people from taking these delusional posts seriously and somehow now I'm the reckless one. That's some impressive reasoning right there. I guess we know why you weren't a SCOTUS clerk.


I don't know how you jump to some of your conclusions, but if you are trying to prevent people from trying to better their lives, then I don't see what skin you have in the game. You don't work in biglaw, you never made the claim that you did, and you are now telling people that they cannot negotiate anything for themselves in biglaw because they'd be laughed out of the room. Do you have any authority on this? I can at least make the claim that I summered in biglaw and have negotiated several at-will agreements straight out of law school.

What does clerking have anything to do with transactional/business career options?


It was a JOKE, meant to show the fact that your reasoning skills are terrible and you're delusional.

I don't need empirical evidence. I know enough people who work in biglaw - as do the people in this thread - to know that what you're saying is bullshit. First year associates in biglaw entirely fungible. That's just a fact. Common sense will tell you that. Well, maybe it won't for someone who would start a thread like this.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:49 pm

skers wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
skers wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:ah ok, so in your flame world how is work assigned, generally?

please keep developing the story, this has more potential


I don't think I follow your question. I think what you are trying to say is that firms assign work to their associates differently. Some firms have a strict form of assigning attorneys, others have a more relaxed (or eat what you kill) environment even with assigning attorneys. Regardless of the environment (because I frankly don't see where you are going with it), you are monitored pretty well: attorneys will routinely check not only what your billables are but also what youre working on...as one partner told my friend "there's always billable work for you to do here." If those firms see you putting too much work in pro bono, they contact you with an assignment that is "urgent" or even if it's not, it definitely has priority to your pro bono work. In fact your pro bono contacts are also there to fight with you--if you get too attached, they'll start saying "out of scope" (you'll have to argue with them that it's not out of scope) and make sure you are doing other work. I remember summering and this one dude was constantly harassed that he wasn't billing enough...he isn't at the firm anymore. Another person was billing 60/week and was yelled at by her senior who was checking her billables and saying she was wasting time on other projects.

I would say having negotiated a carve-out for your pro bono will do you wonders given the those fun stories.


lol at negotiating an at-will employment agreement.

You don't know what eat what you kill actually means and you're just throwing out a term that's kind of related that you heard one time from someone


Yes eat-what-you-kill is less for first year associates. What I mean by that statement is that you are freer to choose your assignments...e.g. if you don't have that much work (which would be surprising in this market), then you call up the assigning attorneys or you talk to seniors youve worked with for more work.

Also crazy that you think you can't negotiate an at-will employment agreement. I've negotiated salaries, stocks, etc in several at will employment agreements.


The phrase you're looking for is free market system. If you're going to pretend to know something about work practices at least do a better job of bullshitting to cover up your stupid.


Sorry for not using the right phrase though you know what I meant. You could have simply said "hey probably mistype, but you mean free market system but yah I get what you mean/no I still don't agree with you"

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:53 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:LOL. First years are utterly replaceable. If one tried to "negotiate," he or she would be laughed out of the room.

Also, I see law school hasn't taught you how to argue very well. You've made quite a few ad hominem attacks. Let me tell you that if this many people are telling you you're making shit up, you're making shit up. You're not so brilliant that you figured out the ONLY way to do this when nobody else can. Sorry to burst your bubble .


Wow, you really are reckless to this thread. Did you even work in biglaw btw?

Also, I'm not claiming I am brilliant. I am just sharing information about pro bono that I know would be useful to some.


I'm trying to prevent people from taking these delusional posts seriously and somehow now I'm the reckless one. That's some impressive reasoning right there. I guess we know why you weren't a SCOTUS clerk.


I don't know how you jump to some of your conclusions, but if you are trying to prevent people from trying to better their lives, then I don't see what skin you have in the game. You don't work in biglaw, you never made the claim that you did, and you are now telling people that they cannot negotiate anything for themselves in biglaw because they'd be laughed out of the room. Do you have any authority on this? I can at least make the claim that I summered in biglaw and have negotiated several at-will agreements straight out of law school.

What does clerking have anything to do with transactional/business career options?


It was a JOKE, meant to show the fact that your reasoning skills are terrible and you're delusional.

I don't need empirical evidence. I know enough people who work in biglaw - as do the people in this thread - to know that what you're saying is bullshit. First year associates in biglaw entirely fungible. That's just a fact. Common sense will tell you that. Well, maybe it won't for someone who would start a thread like this.


OK, sounds like youre convinced. You're not the one I am addressing though, you are post law school pursuing whatever path it is that you are pursuing. I can't give you any sound advice. I am looking to share some of my advice with those who are soon entering transactional biglaw and are either reconsidering it or know that they won't stay in biglaw for a longtime.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:57 pm

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:LOL. First years are utterly replaceable. If one tried to "negotiate," he or she would be laughed out of the room.

Also, I see law school hasn't taught you how to argue very well. You've made quite a few ad hominem attacks. Let me tell you that if this many people are telling you you're making shit up, you're making shit up. You're not so brilliant that you figured out the ONLY way to do this when nobody else can. Sorry to burst your bubble .


Wow, you really are reckless to this thread. Did you even work in biglaw btw?

Also, I'm not claiming I am brilliant. I am just sharing information about pro bono that I know would be useful to some.


I'm trying to prevent people from taking these delusional posts seriously and somehow now I'm the reckless one. That's some impressive reasoning right there. I guess we know why you weren't a SCOTUS clerk.


I don't know how you jump to some of your conclusions, but if you are trying to prevent people from trying to better their lives, then I don't see what skin you have in the game. You don't work in biglaw, you never made the claim that you did, and you are now telling people that they cannot negotiate anything for themselves in biglaw because they'd be laughed out of the room. Do you have any authority on this? I can at least make the claim that I summered in biglaw and have negotiated several at-will agreements straight out of law school.

What does clerking have anything to do with transactional/business career options?


It was a JOKE, meant to show the fact that your reasoning skills are terrible and you're delusional.

I don't need empirical evidence. I know enough people who work in biglaw - as do the people in this thread - to know that what you're saying is bullshit. First year associates in biglaw entirely fungible. That's just a fact. Common sense will tell you that. Well, maybe it won't for someone who would start a thread like this.


OK, sounds like youre convinced. You're not the one I am addressing though, you are post law school pursuing whatever path it is that you are pursuing. I can't give you any sound advice. I am looking to share some of my advice with those who are soon entering transactional biglaw and are either reconsidering it or know that they won't stay in biglaw for a longtime.


I'm just trying to save the few persuadable 0Ls and 1Ls from listening to you. But I think you've been sufficiently discredited, so I'll leave now.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:03 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:LOL. First years are utterly replaceable. If one tried to "negotiate," he or she would be laughed out of the room.

Also, I see law school hasn't taught you how to argue very well. You've made quite a few ad hominem attacks. Let me tell you that if this many people are telling you you're making shit up, you're making shit up. You're not so brilliant that you figured out the ONLY way to do this when nobody else can. Sorry to burst your bubble .


Wow, you really are reckless to this thread. Did you even work in biglaw btw?

Also, I'm not claiming I am brilliant. I am just sharing information about pro bono that I know would be useful to some.


I'm trying to prevent people from taking these delusional posts seriously and somehow now I'm the reckless one. That's some impressive reasoning right there. I guess we know why you weren't a SCOTUS clerk.


I don't know how you jump to some of your conclusions, but if you are trying to prevent people from trying to better their lives, then I don't see what skin you have in the game. You don't work in biglaw, you never made the claim that you did, and you are now telling people that they cannot negotiate anything for themselves in biglaw because they'd be laughed out of the room. Do you have any authority on this? I can at least make the claim that I summered in biglaw and have negotiated several at-will agreements straight out of law school.

What does clerking have anything to do with transactional/business career options?


It was a JOKE, meant to show the fact that your reasoning skills are terrible and you're delusional.

I don't need empirical evidence. I know enough people who work in biglaw - as do the people in this thread - to know that what you're saying is bullshit. First year associates in biglaw entirely fungible. That's just a fact. Common sense will tell you that. Well, maybe it won't for someone who would start a thread like this.


OK, sounds like youre convinced. You're not the one I am addressing though, you are post law school pursuing whatever path it is that you are pursuing. I can't give you any sound advice. I am looking to share some of my advice with those who are soon entering transactional biglaw and are either reconsidering it or know that they won't stay in biglaw for a longtime.


I'm just trying to save the few persuadable 0Ls and 1Ls from listening to you. But I think you've been sufficiently discredited, so I'll leave now.


I dont think I am discredited. If anything I hope people see that you have no biglaw experience, just the experience of reading a lot of forums. Granted I have summer experience, but that's enough to give people advice on how to pursue other opportunities and negotiate things like pro bono.

BigZuck
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:39 pm

Took 8 pages but the OP finally delivered the punchline

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ndirish2010
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:49 pm

BigZuck wrote:Took 8 pages but the OP finally delivered the punchline


I missed it.

BigZuck
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:54 pm

"Granted I have summer experience, but that's enough to give people advice on how to pursue other opportunities and negotiate things like pro bono."

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:01 pm

BigZuck wrote:"Granted I have summer experience, but that's enough to give people advice on how to pursue other opportunities and negotiate things like pro bono."


That's not new. I've been saying that throughout. I've also said that my SO has been in biglaw for a couple of years. Regardless of my SO, it's too late for someone who is already in biglaw to give the advice I'm giving as mine pertains specifically to those who want to exit before they start or who want to negotiate terms for themselves to have a better life as an associate...meaning those who went straight into biglaw don't have experience most likely trying what I've tried. I got out of it on my own terms and negotiated a lot of great things for myself. How my story wouldn't give me cred, I don't know but you seem to think it doesn't.

I could give advice on how to use your biglaw offer as leverage to other positions (k-jd etc), I am telling you that you can leverage your summer offer during 3L oci for things like pro bono guarantees.

I mean it's cool that you think it is a punchline, but I've said that exact thing early on. I'm not hiding anything and just think people shouldn't sell themselves short if they don't see themselves in transactional biglaw (or as transactional attorneys) for the long term.

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smaug
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby smaug » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:09 pm

yeah this moved from vaguely funny to vaguely psychotic

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:11 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:yeah this moved from vaguely funny to vaguely psychotic


Cleaner language would help. Anyway, why don't you share more about your scotus clerk friend. I think it is helpful to others (even if they aren't scotus or won't be).

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smaug
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby smaug » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:14 pm

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:yeah this moved from vaguely funny to vaguely psychotic


Cleaner language would help. Anyway, why don't you share more about your scotus clerk friend. I think it is helpful to others (even if they aren't scotus or won't be).


he's not my friend—just a person i met who shared that anecdote with a group

you have SCOTUS clerk friends though, right? you said so above. tell us more about them.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby UnicornHunter » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:17 pm

What is the remedy for breach if the firm assigns too much doc review?

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:19 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:yeah this moved from vaguely funny to vaguely psychotic


Cleaner language would help. Anyway, why don't you share more about your scotus clerk friend. I think it is helpful to others (even if they aren't scotus or won't be).


he's not my friend—just a person i met who shared that anecdote with a group

you have SCOTUS clerk friends though, right? you said so above. tell us more about them.


Not much. They weren't kjd. One wasn't on journal; neither did moot. Performed well in class. Worked hard. Not the ones you would have expected. Probably will work on the hill afterward. One is thinking about professorship. Just good, quiet people

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ndirish2010
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:29 pm

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:yeah this moved from vaguely funny to vaguely psychotic


Cleaner language would help. Anyway, why don't you share more about your scotus clerk friend. I think it is helpful to others (even if they aren't scotus or won't be).


he's not my friend—just a person i met who shared that anecdote with a group

you have SCOTUS clerk friends though, right? you said so above. tell us more about them.


Not much. They weren't kjd. One wasn't on journal; neither did moot. Performed well in class. Worked hard. Not the ones you would have expected. Probably will work on the hill afterward. One is thinking about professorship. Just good, quiet people


I'd love to hear more about someone who got a feeder and then SCOTUS clerkship without being on a journal. LOL.

BearLaw
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby BearLaw » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:33 pm

Y'all know there is no chance this isnt flame, right?

Guy joined up the day this thread started, has only posted in this thread, cannot write all that well (certainly not persuasively), mixes up names of things while still stubbornly insisting he can offer advice, and last but not least, will NOT let the "negotiate" thing go.

EDIT: Just saw the line about no Journal for SCOUTS clerk... mmhmm, and I have a great beachfront lot in Arizona I will sell you too.
Last edited by BearLaw on Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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smaug
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby smaug » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:34 pm

BearLaw wrote:Y'all know there is no chance this isnt flame, right?

Guy joined up the day this thread started, has only posted in this thread, cannot write all that well (certainly not persuasively), mixes up names of things while still stubbornly insisting he can offer advice, and last but not least, will NOT let the "negotiate" thing go.

it's fun to engage flame to see if they come up with new and funny things

see, e.g., every darasacal thread

BearLaw
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby BearLaw » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:35 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:
BearLaw wrote:Y'all know there is no chance this isnt flame, right?

Guy joined up the day this thread started, has only posted in this thread, cannot write all that well (certainly not persuasively), mixes up names of things while still stubbornly insisting he can offer advice, and last but not least, will NOT let the "negotiate" thing go.

it's fun to engage flame to see if they come up with new and funny things

see, e.g., every darasacal thread


Point taken. I'll hang up and listen.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:36 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:
BearLaw wrote:Y'all know there is no chance this isnt flame, right?

Guy joined up the day this thread started, has only posted in this thread, cannot write all that well (certainly not persuasively), mixes up names of things while still stubbornly insisting he can offer advice, and last but not least, will NOT let the "negotiate" thing go.

it's fun to engage flame to see if they come up with new and funny things

see, e.g., every darasacal thread


It's why I keep my one friend who is a chronic liar around. He will make up crazy stories and act like he's convinced he's telling the truth. We all need that sometimes.

Thanks, greekdebtcrisis

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:41 pm

BearLaw wrote:Y'all know there is no chance this isnt flame, right?

Guy joined up the day this thread started, has only posted in this thread, cannot write all that well (certainly not persuasively), mixes up names of things while still stubbornly insisting he can offer advice, and last but not least, will NOT let the "negotiate" thing go.

EDIT: Just saw the line about no Journal for SCOUTS clerk... mmhmm, and I have a great beachfront lot in Arizona I will sell you too.


They published in our journal but weren't on it. Also you'd be surprised who gets feeders these days. People at HYS have worked for feeders before in some capacity or have worked on the hill and those people will make calls for them or they are simply married to someone who has a lot of clout or born into it. You act like no one gets feeders or scotus without connections and that's it is a meritocracy.




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