Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

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rpupkin
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby rpupkin » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:09 pm

mr.hands wrote:First, even if you take the bar, the likelihood that an employer will give you legal work is small. They have their own lawyers who, you know, practice law. Handing it to a guy who just graduated law school and doesn't practice law is just not happening. Why would they redirect work from legal and send it to a guy whose never practiced law? Because he's interested in giving it a shot?

Can't you read? Greekdebtcrisis already persuasively answered that point:

greekdebtcrisis wrote:If it's a good company, they'll work with you on that front and if you're super anal about it, you can negotiate the terms in your contract that x percent of your work has to be legal, and yes that is possible.

I bet the employment contract specifies that 35% of Greekdebtcrisis's work "has to be legal." When only 10% of work is legal, he will sue company for breach of contract. Advantage: Greekdebtcrisis.

juzam_djinn
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby juzam_djinn » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:21 am

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
juzam_djinn wrote:brother, i would bet a year's salary that you were a middling student who eked by and got an offer somewhere not named Wachtell Lipton (or any of its corp peers; you sure as heck were not in the running for top lit shops)

but don't worry, you will have it better than all those evil transactional biglawyers who you couldn't best in law school


You lost your bet. You could pm me for transfer instructions.

Also I had many lit and corp offers after 2l oci. Didn't want to do lit because I never thought it a good fit nor did I take the boeis's for lit because I wanted options in case I needed to convince non legal that I want them. You also know that many biglaw firms are pretty equal when it comes to lit and corp but some like debevoise and wachtell lean more corp for example than lit. Now of course I also didn't get every firm to which I applied but I did very well like many of my friends.

I don't mind explaining myself to you but I am willing to bet that you aren't at what you'd deem a top shop. Otherwise you wouldn't care about distinguishing. Though like I said if you were v500 (if that exists), it wouldn't make a difference in non legal. But then again I'm curious why you distinguish. Is it because of vault rankings simply?


i'll be honest, i love reading your posts

hdunlop
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby hdunlop » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:23 am

Ya this is like the Peter skinning his knee bit, starts annoying, gets funny, gets annoying again, ends up great

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:46 am

juzam_djinn wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
juzam_djinn wrote:brother, i would bet a year's salary that you were a middling student who eked by and got an offer somewhere not named Wachtell Lipton (or any of its corp peers; you sure as heck were not in the running for top lit shops)

but don't worry, you will have it better than all those evil transactional biglawyers who you couldn't best in law school


You lost your bet. You could pm me for transfer instructions.

Also I had many lit and corp offers after 2l oci. Didn't want to do lit because I never thought it a good fit nor did I take the boeis's for lit because I wanted options in case I needed to convince non legal that I want them. You also know that many biglaw firms are pretty equal when it comes to lit and corp but some like debevoise and wachtell lean more corp for example than lit. Now of course I also didn't get every firm to which I applied but I did very well like many of my friends.

I don't mind explaining myself to you but I am willing to bet that you aren't at what you'd deem a top shop. Otherwise you wouldn't care about distinguishing. Though like I said if you were v500 (if that exists), it wouldn't make a difference in non legal. But then again I'm curious why you distinguish. Is it because of vault rankings simply?


i'll be honest, i love reading your posts


Thanks. Can you answer me as to why and how you distinguish between your rankings? Is it vault? Is it the work that you've heard they do? Does the firm which you worked at give you substantive work as a first or second year?

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:56 am

rpupkin wrote:
mr.hands wrote:First, even if you take the bar, the likelihood that an employer will give you legal work is small. They have their own lawyers who, you know, practice law. Handing it to a guy who just graduated law school and doesn't practice law is just not happening. Why would they redirect work from legal and send it to a guy whose never practiced law? Because he's interested in giving it a shot?

Can't you read? Greekdebtcrisis already persuasively answered that point:

greekdebtcrisis wrote:If it's a good company, they'll work with you on that front and if you're super anal about it, you can negotiate the terms in your contract that x percent of your work has to be legal, and yes that is possible.

I bet the employment contract specifies that 35% of Greekdebtcrisis's work "has to be legal." When only 10% of work is legal, he will sue company for breach of contract. Advantage: Greekdebtcrisis.


Fyi: you can negotiate things with you firm like probono. Had a friend negotiate terms in their contract regarding how much work they'll do that is doc review, etc. You might find it laughable but actually that person was very smart in doing it. Your comment about suing is just silly. I understand why you did it but you're missing the point. I guess you should just be happy with anything you get because that is how things are done? Don't test the law firm that simply doesn't give a shit about you? Everyone here admits that firms treat most associates like cogs, so I don't see the risk for trying to negotiate terms for a better life (even if de facto they aren't rigorously upheld)

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby UnicornHunter » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:41 am

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
mr.hands wrote:First, even if you take the bar, the likelihood that an employer will give you legal work is small. They have their own lawyers who, you know, practice law. Handing it to a guy who just graduated law school and doesn't practice law is just not happening. Why would they redirect work from legal and send it to a guy whose never practiced law? Because he's interested in giving it a shot?

Can't you read? Greekdebtcrisis already persuasively answered that point:

greekdebtcrisis wrote:If it's a good company, they'll work with you on that front and if you're super anal about it, you can negotiate the terms in your contract that x percent of your work has to be legal, and yes that is possible.

I bet the employment contract specifies that 35% of Greekdebtcrisis's work "has to be legal." When only 10% of work is legal, he will sue company for breach of contract. Advantage: Greekdebtcrisis.


Fyi: you can negotiate things with you firm like probono. Had a friend negotiate terms in their contract regarding how much work they'll do that is doc review, etc. You might find it laughable but actually that person was very smart in doing it. Your comment about suing is just silly. I understand why you did it but you're missing the point. I guess you should just be happy with anything you get because that is how things are done? Don't test the law firm that simply doesn't give a shit about you? Everyone here admits that firms treat most associates like cogs, so I don't see the risk for trying to negotiate terms for a better life (even if de facto they aren't rigorously upheld)


Because it won't be upheld, but will flag you as a pain in the ass?

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First Offense
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby First Offense » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:23 am

And also because you have literally zero leverage in a negotiation unless you're a SCOTUS clerk. Special snowflakes are few and far between.

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rpupkin
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby rpupkin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:31 pm

greekdebtcrisis wrote:Fyi: you can negotiate things with you firm like probono. Had a friend negotiate terms in their contract regarding how much work they'll do that is doc review, etc.

Was this a full-time associate position? And how was "doc review" defined in the contract?

I'm sorry, but I think you're just making things up ITT. Is it possible that some law firms--in some circumstances--will negotiate the terms of a contract with an associate? It's unusual but I suppose it's possible. But your illustrative anecdotes are so unrealistic that I'm confident you are fabricating stories or are relaying the fabricated stories of others.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:49 pm

rpupkin wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:Fyi: you can negotiate things with you firm like probono. Had a friend negotiate terms in their contract regarding how much work they'll do that is doc review, etc.

Was this a full-time associate position? And how was "doc review" defined in the contract?

I'm sorry, but I think you're just making things up ITT. Is it possible that some law firms--in some circumstances--will negotiate the terms of a contract with an associate? It's unusual but I suppose it's possible. But your illustrative anecdotes are so unrealistic that I'm confident you are fabricating stories or are relaying the fabricated stories of others.


Yes it was for a full time associate position. It was negotiated post-offer but before acceptance of the offer. If you're smart, you can figure out what was and wasn't negotiated or you can pm me. Needless to say for those that care about rankings, this was a v10 firm.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:51 pm

First Offense wrote:And also because you have literally zero leverage in a negotiation unless you're a SCOTUS clerk. Special snowflakes are few and far between.


This is just wrong and you shouldn't disseminate bad info.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:53 pm

TheUnicornHunter wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
mr.hands wrote:First, even if you take the bar, the likelihood that an employer will give you legal work is small. They have their own lawyers who, you know, practice law. Handing it to a guy who just graduated law school and doesn't practice law is just not happening. Why would they redirect work from legal and send it to a guy whose never practiced law? Because he's interested in giving it a shot?

Can't you read? Greekdebtcrisis already persuasively answered that point:

greekdebtcrisis wrote:If it's a good company, they'll work with you on that front and if you're super anal about it, you can negotiate the terms in your contract that x percent of your work has to be legal, and yes that is possible.

I bet the employment contract specifies that 35% of Greekdebtcrisis's work "has to be legal." When only 10% of work is legal, he will sue company for breach of contract. Advantage: Greekdebtcrisis.


Fyi: you can negotiate things with you firm like probono. Had a friend negotiate terms in their contract regarding how much work they'll do that is doc review, etc. You might find it laughable but actually that person was very smart in doing it. Your comment about suing is just silly. I understand why you did it but you're missing the point. I guess you should just be happy with anything you get because that is how things are done? Don't test the law firm that simply doesn't give a shit about you? Everyone here admits that firms treat most associates like cogs, so I don't see the risk for trying to negotiate terms for a better life (even if de facto they aren't rigorously upheld)


Because it won't be upheld, but will flag you as a pain in the ass?


Have you tried? Seems to work well for those I know who have tried.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:19 pm

Associates don't even have contracts.

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First Offense
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby First Offense » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:24 pm

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
First Offense wrote:And also because you have literally zero leverage in a negotiation unless you're a SCOTUS clerk. Special snowflakes are few and far between.


This is just wrong and you shouldn't disseminate bad info.


Subtle troll reply.

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rpupkin
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby rpupkin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:26 pm

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:Fyi: you can negotiate things with you firm like probono. Had a friend negotiate terms in their contract regarding how much work they'll do that is doc review, etc.

Was this a full-time associate position? And how was "doc review" defined in the contract?

I'm sorry, but I think you're just making things up ITT. Is it possible that some law firms--in some circumstances--will negotiate the terms of a contract with an associate? It's unusual but I suppose it's possible. But your illustrative anecdotes are so unrealistic that I'm confident you are fabricating stories or are relaying the fabricated stories of others.


Yes it was for a full time associate position. It was negotiated post-offer but before acceptance of the offer. If you're smart, you can figure out what was and wasn't negotiated

I can't figure it out. :cry:

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:06 pm

rpupkin wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:Fyi: you can negotiate things with you firm like probono. Had a friend negotiate terms in their contract regarding how much work they'll do that is doc review, etc.

Was this a full-time associate position? And how was "doc review" defined in the contract?

I'm sorry, but I think you're just making things up ITT. Is it possible that some law firms--in some circumstances--will negotiate the terms of a contract with an associate? It's unusual but I suppose it's possible. But your illustrative anecdotes are so unrealistic that I'm confident you are fabricating stories or are relaying the fabricated stories of others.


Yes it was for a full time associate position. It was negotiated post-offer but before acceptance of the offer. If you're smart, you can figure out what was and wasn't negotiated

I can't figure it out. :cry:


Then pm me.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:08 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Associates don't even have contracts.


What are you talking about? I really would like to know that you got your job by not signing any piece of paper.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:14 pm

First Offense wrote:
greekdebtcrisis wrote:
First Offense wrote:And also because you have literally zero leverage in a negotiation unless you're a SCOTUS clerk. Special snowflakes are few and far between.


This is just wrong and you shouldn't disseminate bad info.


Subtle troll reply.


No it's just pure stupidity you're trying to spread. That you don't have any leverage is completely false. If anyone wants to pm me about the leverage, I'm happy to respond but I also want to underscore how wrong you are in your information and that by Jove I hope no one takes your advice seriously.

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smaug
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby smaug » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:33 pm

this was more entertaining when the flame was plausible

hdunlop
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby hdunlop » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:44 pm

Yeah by jove is a bit much

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:03 pm

Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:27 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:this was more entertaining when the flame was plausible


Cool. So you don't like giving good advice to others? Or you rather read a ton of bad mouthing and put downs? If you're going to a law firm, do you think you got a good deal? If not, would you want a better one? If you're at a law firm, do you enjoy your job? Are you doing anything that is substantive and making the world a better place? How much time are you billing for pro bono and wouldn't you find your work more rewarding if you were able to bill a substantial amount of your hours by doing more rewarding work?

If you can answer those questions honestly, I think you'll contribute to this thread and help someone in the future. Otherwise, your post as it stands won't be helpful.

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smaug
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby smaug » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:54 pm

I think I got the normal deal. That said, I think 99% of people get the normal deal. I've actually heard of people getting better than normal deals, but they involve something extraordinary. (SCOTUS clerk negotiating down hours expectation, someone getting a class year boost, firms putting up with very short periods of time in employment between clerkships).

But yeah, some of the things you're talking about just don't exist on the law side. There's not much to negotiate for first years.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:00 am

The distance between troll and plausible law student can be so small.

greekdebtcrisis
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby greekdebtcrisis » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:36 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:The distance between troll and plausible law student can be so small.


And the gap between troll and law graduate is immense.

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beepboopbeep
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Re: Is prestige of law firm really worth it?

Postby beepboopbeep » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:58 am

greekdebtcrisis wrote:
And the gap between troll and law graduate is immense.



What is that even supposed to mean

Do I need to pm you to find out




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