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Say you aren't Fat Joe at a law firm. Whats the end game? Do service partners get ground to the dust hours wise?

Do you feel like your taking a step back going in house (when you may have been able to jump in as a management rotation program) and potentially could have been a couple of levels ahead? Is it the allure of the work and the prethstige? The type of work?

I specifically ask because I feel I'm at the edge where I jump to trying to do a big firm now after my 1L summer think (T2 strat consulting/MM ibanking/f500 corp dev/corp strat) or try and hop into a F500 leadership program/finance/consulting post law school.

Everything seems so doom and gloom these days that I'm questioning trying to get on the BL path.

Anonymous User wrote:Say you aren't Fat Joe at a law firm. Whats the end game? Do service partners get ground to the dust hours wise?

Do you feel like your taking a step back going in house (when you may have been able to jump in as a management rotation program) and potentially could have been a couple of levels ahead? Is it the allure of the work and the prethstige? The type of work?

I specifically ask because I feel I'm at the edge where I jump to trying to do a big firm now after my 1L summer think (T2 strat consulting/MM ibanking/f500 corp dev/corp strat) or try and hop into a F500 leadership program/finance/consulting post law school.

Everything seems so doom and gloom these days that I'm questioning trying to get on the BL path.

With this sort of attention to detail, it seems likely biglaw is not for you. But yeah, it's not too pleasant anyway.

I'm a trooper so my plan is to stick it out as long as possible, and be the best associate I can be. I met some small time clients as a summer so once I get 1 on 1 client interactions, in-house could be an option. Many of my friends in law and out have made money in side ventures so collectively it's possible one of them will have something worth jumping onto. If all else fails, I'll hang a shingle. I tend to focus on the step I'm on as life is unpredictable so I really haven't thought about 3 steps from now. My main goal is really to just do good work, and let the chips fall.

Valar morghulis.

As a lawyer people treat you as a paper pusher that navigates some rules obstructing companies entrepreneurial spirit. In business, you are treated as the creator of entrepreneurial ideas.

ymmv wrote:Valar morghulis.

valar dohaeris

The end game for many is out of law completely. The end game for many is in-house. The end game for many is partner at mid-small law. The end game for very, very few is biglaw partner. Yes, service partners get crushed, at least for a few years. And more and more "service partner" is not what it used to be - the irreversible trend that will continue until you're up for partner in a decade is that service partners will be non-equity partners-in-name-only. They will still make a lot of money, but it isn't the ticket it was for your father.

Then again, not much will be.

JohannDeMann wrote:As a lawyer people treat you as a paper pusher that navigates some rules obstructing companies entrepreneurial spirit. In business, you are treated as the creator of entrepreneurial ideas.

I work at a f500 and am not treated as the creator of entrepreneurial ideas lmao

The job roles Im talking about fall all over the spectrum. I know people with advanced degrees in supply chain management that basically look at data and develop relationships to accomplish better cost margins and quality. Their supervisor is someone less than 10 years removed from an MBA who basically created the group and does all the strategy.

Other roles are like creating a training program. The company just says okay create the shit and how you want to do that is up to you. They give you feedback as you go along but its very much up to you.

Another role is someone heads an auditing function that tracks a certain groups time. They think oh this way is kind of missing the point and doesn't give us the best data because of X. So they came up with a side project starting their own tracking mechanism and the data was better and more useful so know they own a team and that's like something they oversee.

As even the most senior partner people are still looking at you to just organize your minions and push paper. There's always a prescribed way in law from getting from A to Z and it's A -B- C- D- etc. Business is much more okay whats causing problem A, what data is important to sift through to find the cause, and then once the cause is targeted, remdying the cause.
I'm not saying everyone two years out of school is using their brain in this way, but it's way more the norm and standard for someone 10 years out in business to be making some pretty fucking cool decisions and plans along the way to solve problem A rather than organizing the people below to you okay we need to accomplish ABCDEF within 7 days.

Killing self

When I worked in supply chain we were a cost center just like accounting or legal.

Johann you sound like your firm just doesn't do sophisticated work.

Cobretti wrote:When I worked in supply chain we were a cost center just like accounting or legal.

Johann you sound like your firm just doesn't do sophisticated work.

sophisticated work at junior level is mostly a flame

gk101 wrote:

Cobretti wrote:When I worked in supply chain we were a cost center just like accounting or legal.

Johann you sound like your firm just doesn't do sophisticated work.

sophisticated work at junior level is mostly a flame

Sure, but to say that lawyers don't get to be innovative and creative in solving problems is a flame.

fobstory.jpeg

Johann was talking about ~10 yrs out though, not 2.

Cobretti wrote:

gk101 wrote:

Cobretti wrote:When I worked in supply chain we were a cost center just like accounting or legal.

Johann you sound like your firm just doesn't do sophisticated work.

sophisticated work at junior level is mostly a flame

Sure, but to say that lawyers don't get to be innovative and creative in solving problems is a flame.

the times I have had to be creative and innovative usually meant we were throwing shit on the wall and hoping it stuck

Desert Fox wrote:

gk101 wrote:

Cobretti wrote:When I worked in supply chain we were a cost center just like accounting or legal.

Johann you sound like your firm just doesn't do sophisticated work.

sophisticated work at junior level is mostly a flame

It seems like in litigation, the more sophisticated the work is the less sophisticated the work juniors get, at least in traditional biglaw.

My friend at quasi midlaw / shitlaw/ semi presitgiousoso ID mill does entire cases where she is making all teh calls.

V5 bros spend 2 years reviewing docs and writing issue memos.

yeah the midlevels at my firm just try to hoard all the interesting work and pass off issue memos. even then the partners are micromanaging the fuck out of everything. nothing sophisticated about any of this

gk101 wrote:

Cobretti wrote:

gk101 wrote:

Cobretti wrote:When I worked in supply chain we were a cost center just like accounting or legal.

Johann you sound like your firm just doesn't do sophisticated work.

sophisticated work at junior level is mostly a flame

Sure, but to say that lawyers don't get to be innovative and creative in solving problems is a flame.

the times I have had to be creative and innovative usually meant we were throwing shit on the wall and hoping it stuck

Lol I think that's really what all innovation is, definitely equally true in business.

fobstory.jpeg

Desert Fox wrote:I don't even know a midlevel in my group who has done a depo before.

I got to sit in on one for an IPR proceeding because the partner wasn't comfortable with the tech. he kept passing me notes asking the stupidest questions

Desert Fox wrote:I don't even know a midlevel in my group who has done a depo before.

At least they get to review the documents and draft bullshit papers that the partner might use during the depo

The end game though? For something like a quarter of them - LEAVING THE LAW PERMANENTLY. For many women, being SAHMs. For many men, wishing they could turn back time and not have done law in the first place, and not having been stuck with 2 kids and a SAHM, so now they have to do law for life.

Cobretti wrote:

gk101 wrote:

Cobretti wrote:When I worked in supply chain we were a cost center just like accounting or legal.

Johann you sound like your firm just doesn't do sophisticated work.

sophisticated work at junior level is mostly a flame

Sure, but to say that lawyers don't get to be innovative and creative in solving problems is a flame.

Says the non lawyer while 3 other lawyers agree.

JohannDeMann wrote:

Cobretti wrote:

gk101 wrote:

Cobretti wrote:When I worked in supply chain we were a cost center just like accounting or legal.

Johann you sound like your firm just doesn't do sophisticated work.

sophisticated work at junior level is mostly a flame

Sure, but to say that lawyers don't get to be innovative and creative in solving problems is a flame.

Says the non lawyer while 3 other lawyers agree.

I've spent more time working in a firm this summer than you have working in industry. I'm more qualified to say that than you are to say any of your "grass is always greener" delusions about working in business. If you want to leave it at that and you stop bringing up how amazing these other jobs you know nothing about are, that's fine and I'll stop talking about what I've seen at my firm.