Bidding Multiple Markets

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Anonymous User
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Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:59 pm

I've been reading up and there seems to be a lot of back and forth on this issue, but I would like to hear from people that did bid multiple markets how well they fared and if they had any tipes. Right now I'm looking at the California (LA and SF) and DC markets, with some safeties in NYC.

BigZuck
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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby BigZuck » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:33 pm

School?

Grades?

Ties?

Could be a just fine idea or a bad one depending. Especially if you're just talking about OCI and not mass mailing.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:43 pm

new anon:

T10, slightly below median, strong ties to West Coast.

I plan on bidding primarily large class NYC firms--should I bid at all on LA or just mass mail?

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inchipwetrust
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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby inchipwetrust » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:14 pm

also would like to know how I will make out doing this. Transferring to GULC, doing their EIW, same thing as oci really, for the first time. I'm from Philly and want to work as close to here as possible. I bid to all the Philly firms (8), 3 Delaware firms, a lot of DC firms just because so many are there and a couple NYC firms. Am I hurting my chances by being so spread out? And is there anything else I can do to get a SA with Philly firms not at EIW short of applying December 1?

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chuckbass
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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby chuckbass » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:27 pm

inchipwetrust wrote:also would like to know how I will make out doing this. Transferring to GULC, doing their EIW, same thing as oci really, for the first time. I'm from Philly and want to work as close to here as possible. I bid to all the Philly firms (8), 3 Delaware firms, a lot of DC firms just because so many are there and a couple NYC firms. Am I hurting my chances by being so spread out? And is there anything else I can do to get a SA with Philly firms not at EIW short of applying December 1?

I would bid NYC firms over DC firms. Philly is a tough market with few spots. I'll actually be a GULC transfer as well and I'm headed to a Philly firm, so feel free to PM me.

ETA: applying December 1 was the drill for 1L SAs. You should be mass mailing this summer.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:40 pm

BigZuck wrote:School?

Grades?

Ties?

Could be a just fine idea or a bad one depending. Especially if you're just talking about OCI and not mass mailing.


Original OP here.

T10

Slightly above median

Strong ties in DC and both California markets. For California I'll be doing the career fair and mass mailing. Reserving OCI for NYC and DC. No actual interest in working in NYC unless forced to, would likely take up ANY market or almost market paying job in the other markets before picking NYC.

OutoftheWoods
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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby OutoftheWoods » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:00 am

What I learned in my travels as a strike out:

CA - extreme ties heavy. going to a CA school that isnt Berkeley or Stanford isn't enough, as crazy as that sounds (learned it the hard way). Between LA/SF, there isn't really much of a difference (SF is prob less tie heavy if you want corporate since all the companies are there, when LA has the worst corporate work since...well, look at their shitty downtown).
TX - semi-tie to possibly no tie (since TX summers split between firms often, you're probably more likely to join their firm after than a good number of people in their class)
DC - semi-tie to no tie (no ties if you have a gov't background or show an interest in their work, i've found to be key)
Boston - extremely tie heavy
NY - no ties at all.

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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:27 am

OutoftheWoods wrote:What I learned in my travels as a strike out:

CA - extreme ties heavy.


What if I've never lived in CA but it's the only state in the whole country where I have actual family? I don't really have "heavy ties" to anywhere though, so CA is basically the only place I have ties at all.

OutoftheWoods
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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby OutoftheWoods » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:57 am

^family is a tie, no matter where they are (if its parents/grandparents/siblings/other close relatives not 3rd cousins twice removed)

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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:44 am

I bid CA and DC heavily with high grades at CCN and am splitting between the markets this summer, so I'll write more here than is probably needed. Had no ties to either, but a fairly compelling story for DC (interested+have background in a couple regulatory areas that only happen here).

You have basically zero shot at SF would be my guess. A friend who grew up in the bay area, had tech experience, and median grades in my class targeted that market exclusively and struck out, and it wasn't particularly close. May as well give the massmail a shot but I wouldn't hold out hope. I also sent a few apps that way and even with great grades had basically no success. Extremely ties-conscious/provincial.

I think the CA=ties thing is a bit overstated when it comes to LA. I'll be there later this summer and I'd never been west of Omaha before callbacks, and had basically no family out there either. It's LA. They get that people want to live there, and assuming your T10 isn't Berk (because, duh) it's a big enough market that you may be one of only a handful of students from your class interested in some firms in the market. I have two friends doing SAs out there now with either weak or non-existent ties, and median-ish grades. If you know CA is a place you'd want to be and can tell a good story, I'd focus this way more than SF.

DC is a tough nut to crack--don't underestimate it. I'd caution against a DC-heavy bidlist unless you have an offer in hand going into OCI. Like, seriously. I had like 10-15 screeners in DC and converted maybe 20% of them to CBs--and batted close to 80% in other markets, so I don't think it was an interview-awkwardness problem, nor was it a grades problem. It depends somewhat on how the rest of your class bids. If, like mine, most of the top 10% shoots for DC, it's unlikely you'll get much of anything. If your class shies away, firms will dip lower. You have basically no way of knowing this before or even during OCI, and above median T10 isn't an absolutely guaranteed offer situation. I'd play DC conservatively.

Whenever you get the list of firms that are coming to your OCI, maybe send some massmails to the DC firms that aren't on that list and oversell your commitment to the market. If you have a specific area you want to work in, scope the smaller firms that do that work and hit them up. If you just generally want to be in DC without knowing what you want to do, this gets harder. Whatever screeners you pick up for DC, do extensive research--lots of DC offices are specialized, so if you know that, say, White & Case DC focuses on international arbitration work, or Wiley Rein focuses on telecom, learn at least a minimal amount about that area. I mean, this is true for a lot in OCI, but I think especially true for DC. Good luck OP.

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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote: If, like mine, most of the top 10% shoots for DC, it's unlikely you'll get much of anything.


What's up with that? Why do so many people wanna go to DC?

I mean, my closest friends live in DC and I have a life there, but other than that it's a pretty OK city. If I had the choice to go anywhere I wanted (with tops grades at a top school) and no ties to DC I don't really think I'd be so into it.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: If, like mine, most of the top 10% shoots for DC, it's unlikely you'll get much of anything.


What's up with that? Why do so many people wanna go to DC?

I mean, my closest friends live in DC and I have a life there, but other than that it's a pretty OK city. If I had the choice to go anywhere I wanted (with tops grades at a top school) and no ties to DC I don't really think I'd be so into it.


It's definitely school dependent. top of the class at my school wasn't overwhelmingly DC focused, and traditionally isn't. The DC candidates were spread pretty evenly among the above median students, and they tended to come from there/have specific reasons for that market (there wasn't a noticeable "I'm qualified for it so I should bid it just because" vibe, which was refreshing since a lot of the time that's what law school becomes). Lots of success for those who wanted it and had decent grades, but many top students still stuck to NY/CA. Maybe DC is more popular at schools where students loathe going to New York, e.g. Chicago.

Anonymous User wrote:I think the CA=ties thing is a bit overstated when it comes to LA. I'll be there later this summer and I'd never been west of Omaha before callbacks, and had basically no family out there either.


I will say one thing on this: granted that LA isn't nearly as ties-sensitive as SF, I think recruiting there retains a little more nuance. LA firms sort of break into two groups. There are firms like the one you're going to that are very credential-conscious (e.g. grades/law review), who want to attract top talent and don't care so much for geography since they know students from top law schools don't need that extra incentive to come/stay at an elite shop. Then there are firms that aren't grade selective from T6 schools but are more correspondingly sensitive to ties; those firms will reach further down in the class to callback/offer SoCal natives (and their summer classes reflect more local people as a result). It makes sense that you weren't drilled on ties for the first camp, but that doesn't hold across the market.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Bidding Multiple Markets

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:10 pm

Just one anecdote but I got an offer from a firm in the Bay Area as a 3L despite never having been north of San Luis Obispo my entire life. I didn't get any offers as a 2L or 3L in Southern California despite having grown up in San Diego and gone to college in Orange County. I don't really know what to conclude from this but it's another story to toss out there.




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