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Anonymous User
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Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:23 pm

Edited...Thanks everyone!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:38 pm

That's like a 3.17 right? You're probably fine as long as they weren't both this semester

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Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:40 pm

Edited...Thanks everyone!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

J90
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby J90 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:31 pm

I'm sorry, man, but 2 B-s in the same semester isn't going to look too good. It makes it look like you checked out hard, basically.

Law firms figure that most people attending top schools (like Columbia) are capable of doing the work the firms have, or learning how to. Work ethic is not as teachable. If it looks like you're not diligent, and here, perhaps above-and-beyond not diligent, that's something that they may actually want to screen for (I'm not assuming you didn't try, but two B-s makes it look like you didn't).

It's going to be on a case-by-case basis for you, but this isn't hot. The two HPs in LPW are great but unless the interviewer went to Columbia, the impact of that might fly over their heads, or even if they're Columbia alumni more than a few years out.

Don't give up but you're really gonna have to hustle.

Anonymous User
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Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:49 pm

Edited...thanks everyone!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wiz
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby wiz » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:02 pm

Nothing you can do about it now. Just focus on what you can control: Smart bidding, working on interviewing skills, studying up on firms, knowing your resume cold, attending firm receptions, reaching out to alums, etc. (The reception/alum stuff is probs unnecessary, but it can't hurt.)

I wouldn't address it in interviews unless it's brought up (it won't be), but others might feel differently. I don't think this is too special of a situation. Bad grades happen, and you're close enough to median. Emphasize how much you like legal writing if you want, and talk up your WE/top undergrad.

Again, you don't have to feel really terrible. It's done, and you're still at a great school. You probs won't be summering at a V5 if that's what you care about, but you can still get a really good, market-paying firm. Apparently EIP has a ~90% success rate these days.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:14 pm

Edited..Thanks everyone!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:07 am

I'm not as pessimistic as some others. The curve is new enough and there are enough B- grades to go around that they won't jump out at the interviewers in an especially negative way. I'd treat EIP like anyone with a 3.1-3.2 GPA should: get as many interviews as you can with NYC firms that make lots of offers to non-Stone students, and practice your interviewing a lot. Nothing you can do beyond that.

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papercut
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby papercut » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:one prof who gave me a B- straight up told me he never started following the new curve, and rigidly gives x% of B-s per year. But I'm sure employers don't realize that, so woe is me.


Fuck. What a giant POS. Why do they let aloof assholes teach 1L classes?

Any hint as to who the prof is?

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jbagelboy
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:09 pm

papercut wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:one prof who gave me a B- straight up told me he never started following the new curve, and rigidly gives x% of B-s per year. But I'm sure employers don't realize that, so woe is me.


Fuck. What a giant POS. Why do they let aloof assholes teach 1L classes?

Any hint as to who the prof is?


its probably gerard lynch, and he's actually an incredible professor and a 2nd circuit judge, just a hardass

the aloof asshole who gives B-'s is jody kraus, but he's a first semester contracts prof

there are like four profs left at all of CLS that will give out a B- (albeit only a handful per section), and at least three of them teach 1L classes

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jbagelboy
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks so much for the encouragement.

All I want is a market-paying job in NYC, or really any below market-paying "summer associate" gig that could potentially lead to an offer. Could care less about prestige/vault rank at this point, I realize I don't have that luxury. I intend on making the most conservative bid list possible.

They tell us last year 87% of EIP participants got a job, but I don't know how they calculate that number. If it's based on survey replies, for instance, I imagine a lot of people who struck out just don't reply.


actually, the 87% is lower than accurate because it doesn't reflect 1) people who didn't pursue callbacks out of EIP because they had a better offer outside of EIP, 2) people who mass mailed during/after EIP and got an offer despite not receiving one through EIP, 3) people who did receive an offer but never completed the survey (you've got the human error element backwards: OCS calculates the % using the participants who signed up back in April as the denominator, with the people who said they received offers/whose firms reported their offers through EIP as the numerator, so if you struck out and didn't reply it's the same as replying that you struck out). Then there are the people who skipped EIP altogether but had offers and aren't counted as participants at all.

What the EIP figures should tell you is that if you're not a bad interviewer and you're in the top 75% of the class (not bottom quarter), you'll probably be okay. If you're in the bottom quarter of the class, you better be a decent interviewer w/ good bidding or have something else going for you (or get a shitload of interviews and hustle)

Re: your chances, bid conservatively -- only large class size NY firms -- and mass mail NLJ250 plus other markets you have ties to. You aren't sunk. Few firms can afford to be grade selective at CLS ITE.

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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:19 pm

Lynch grades still not in, but he definitely gives B- grades. He is one of the most transparent profs though. Along with exam commentaries, he gives us his grade distributions for the past 10 or so years. It looks like he's been giving less B-s since the new curve, but he's also said that he's trying to grade us in comparison to past classes. Also it looks like he's been giving more As since 2012.

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:35 am

I think people are overestimating the effect of having both this semester. I went from like a 3.55 to a 3.0, but at OCI I seemed to get treated like any other 3.27. (If anything I outperformed my GPA.) Intuitively you'd think the timing would matter, but empirically, IME, it does not.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:54 pm

Edited...Thanks everyone!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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papercut
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby papercut » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Update: OP here, last grade was an A, so hoping this helps mitigate any "this person completely mailed it in" impression. Cumulative GPA is a notch over 3.3.

Thanks everyone for the advice. Much appreciated.


Congrats. :D

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smaug
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Re: 2 B- Grades at CLS...Any hope at EIP?

Postby smaug » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Update: OP here, last grade was an A, so hoping this helps mitigate any "this person completely mailed it in" impression. Cumulative GPA is a notch over 3.3.

Thanks everyone for the advice. Much appreciated.

glad to hear the good news!

Anonymous User
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Re: ....

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:24 pm

Apologies...had to edit this thread to preserve anonymity during EIP, since I pretty much disclosed my whole transcript and some of my background, but just wanted to update and say that I had a relatively normal/successful CLS EIP...~25 screeners, 8 CBS, 3 Offers - 1 V100, 1 V50 and 1 V30. Grades never came up even one time.

Thanks for all your help everyone! Also, props to CLS - you can most definitely get a BigLaw job, even if you screw up a bit.




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