HLS EIP 2015 Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:45 pm

OP here. Just for posterity, I spoke with OCI yesterday and they approved of my bid list given my grades. I have altered it to accommodate the advice I got and the dates that the firms are interviewing on.

Anonymous User wrote:Hey Everyone,

5 H's, 5 P's (Both LRWs were P's).

I am interested primarily in DC (Interested in litigation (appellate specifically but don't worry i won't lean on that) and regulatory work) but I have a few ties (not much but I hope enough) to Texas and would be happy to go there if I strike out in DC. Here is my tentative bid list. I would love feedback and thoughts. With my interests specifically, did I miss anything? Let me know.

1 Hogan Lovells (DC)
2 Sidley Austin LLP (DC)
3 King & Spalding (DC)
4 Boies Schiller & Flexner (DC)
5 Crowell & Moring (DC)
6 Jones Day (DC)
7 WilmerHale (DC)
8 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom (DC)
9 Arnold & Porter (DC)
10 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (DC)
11 Latham & Watkins (DC)
12 Covington & Burling LLP (DC)
13 Mayer Brown LLP (DC)
14 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld (DC)
15 Kirkland & Ellis (DC)
16 Wiley Rein (DC)
17 Morgan, Lewis & Bockius (DC)
18 Norton Rose Fulbright (Dallas (and Houston - one interview for all offices))
19 Vinson & Elkins (Dallas (and Houston - one interview for all offices))
20 Baker Botts (DC (and Houston - one interview for all offices))
21 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman (DC)
22 Steptoe & Johnson (DC)
23 Hunton & Williams (DC)
24 Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP (DC)
25 Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton (DC)
26 Winston & Strawn LLP (DC)
27 Jenner & Block (DC)
28 Sidley Austin (Dallas)
29 Baker McKenzie (DC (and Dallas - one interview for all offices))
30 Ropes & Gray (DC)
31 Foley Hoag (DC)
32 Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton (DC)

Thanks again.

robotrick · Post by **robotrick** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:00 pm

^^Just FYI, you have Norton Rose on there twice - could open a spot for another TX firm or whatever

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:12 pm

robotrick wrote:^^Just FYI, you have Norton Rose on there twice - could open a spot for another TX firm or whatever

Fixed. It was just a typo. Thanks for the heads up.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:49 pm

Does anybody know grade cutoffs for Munger, Keker, Boies, Susman, WLRK, W&C?

Person1111 · Post by **Person1111** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody know grade cutoffs for Munger, Keker, Boies, Susman, WLRK, W&C?

I'd guess 6-8 H's are hard cutoffs, but you probably need higher unless you have a really interesting profile (and "interesting profile" will vary firm to firm - being a military officer will go a long way at W&C but probably not at Munger, and having a Ph.D. in philosophy will probably have the opposite effect). This is a bizarre combination of firms, by the way; they have very little in common except being prestigious and fawned over by TLS.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:22 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody know grade cutoffs for Munger, Keker, Boies, Susman, WLRK, W&C?
I'd guess 6-8 H's are hard cutoffs, but you probably need higher unless you have a really interesting profile (and "interesting profile" will vary firm to firm - being a military officer will go a long way at W&C but probably not at Munger, and having a Ph.D. in philosophy will probably have the opposite effect). This is a bizarre combination of firms, by the way; they have very little in common except being prestigious and fawned over by TLS.

It might be a bizarre combination, but you'd be surprised at how many folks split their summers between these firms, e.g., wachtell & munger, susman & munger, w&c and wachtell, ect.

Also the impression I've gathered is the Boies "cutoff" will be a little lower than the others on this list

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:47 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody know grade cutoffs for Munger, Keker, Boies, Susman, WLRK, W&C?
I'd guess 6-8 H's are hard cutoffs, but you probably need higher unless you have a really interesting profile (and "interesting profile" will vary firm to firm - being a military officer will go a long way at W&C but probably not at Munger, and having a Ph.D. in philosophy will probably have the opposite effect). This is a bizarre combination of firms, by the way; they have very little in common except being prestigious and fawned over by TLS.

Agree this is an odd combo--especially WLRK alongside all the lit shops b/c they just do fundamentally different things. To the OP, where (as in what city) you want to practice is probably the most important thing you'll have to figure out as well. I don't know if anybody possibly applied to all of the above b/c I don't think anybody bid California/New York/Houston/DC.

To the poster above, your point about having something interesting in addition to grades is probably right too, though I'm not sure it's as systematic as people play it up to be. I have a hard time believing any firm would not treat military experience as a positive, and one of my W&C interviewers himself had a Ph.D. in philosophy.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:01 pm

In OP's defense, WLRK is about half litigation. And the rest are just small litigation firms. I don't see it as a particularly odd list, but rather a common group for a certain grade range - 9ish.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:24 pm

So would bidding on WLRK be a waste of bid for someone with 4H? What about Cravath? waste of bid? Interested in NY litigation and bidding NY only.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:33 pm

How do DSs factor into the above analysis?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:34 pm

2 Hs and 1 DS. Interested in DC only. Primarily interested in regulatory work, though I wouldn't mind litigation. What should my strategy be?

Person1111 · Post by **Person1111** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So would bidding on WLRK be a waste of bid for someone with 4H? What about Cravath? waste of bid? Interested in NY litigation and bidding NY only.

WLRK would be a waste, Cravath would not be.

lawbeahs · Post by **lawbeahs** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:08 pm

Is there a limit for number of bids per day? just realized I have 9 bids for one day, which seems on the heavy side.

TripTrip · Post by **TripTrip** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:31 pm

lawbeahs wrote:Is there a limit for number of bids per day? just realized I have 9 bids for one day, which seems on the heavy side.

I don't think there's a mechanical limit, but there is a reason that if you try to draft bid 9 in one day on HLS Dope it shows up red. Ignoring how terrible this would be for a second: if everything worked perfectly in your favor on the bidding side, you could theoretically manage 10 interviews in one day. However the chance that, by the time Symplicity gets to your last bid, you will still have a time slot open that the employer also has open is relatively small. You will probably end up actually doing 4-6 interviews per day.

9 bids isn't that bad though, since your daily average will be as high as 7.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:17 pm

Anyone here have experience with 3L EIP/3L firm applications generally? Looking at past EIP spreadsheets, the prospects look pretty grim. FWIW, I expect to have an offer from my firm (highly ranked in the Vault), for which I am working in two cities this summer, only one of which I expect to be offered to return to, the other of which is where I actually want to end up. I also have a federal clerkship lined up.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:20 pm

6H, 2DS, 2P. Really want to work in DC, but would be okay with New York too. Really interested in antitrust, have a big background in economics and antitrust specifically, but i've been having doubts lately. Also really interested in litigation, especially appellate litigation. Want to work somewhere where partnership is at least semi-achievable (and where I have a chance of physically surviving until that becomes a possibility). Preliminary bid list is below, please tear it to shreds.

1. DC WilmerHale
2. DC Hogan Lovells
3. DC Williams & Connolly
4. DC Arnold & Porter
5. DC Gibson Dunn
6. DC Mayer Brown
7. DC Kirkland
8. DC Cleary
9. NY Weil
10. DC Akin Gump
11. NY Debevoise
12. DC Covington
13. NY Skadden
14. NY Paul Weiss
15. SF Keker
16. LA Munger
17. NY Davis Polk
18. DC Latham
19. DC Jenner & Block
20. DC Steptoe
21. NY Paul Weiss
22. NY Wachtell
23. NY Cadwalader

TripTrip · Post by **TripTrip** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:Really interested in antitrust, have a big background in economics and antitrust specifically, but i've been having doubts lately. Also really interested in litigation, especially appellate litigation.

I won't comment on the bid list, but I do want to address backgrounds and practice groups real quick. Backgrounds are a great way to start a conversation about why you are interested in a particular area of law. But that's it. Attorneys assume you have no working knowledge about practicing law in your particular area of interest and will roll their eyes if you try to convince them otherwise. My background screams white collar criminal defense (I used to conduct internal investigations) and my firm has a huge WC practice, but when I first got here they put me on pharmaceutical patent litigation because that's where the work was.

Antitrust and appellate work are fine to want, but know that antitrust groups are usually really small. You may need to work in a profit center first and hope to take antitrust assignments as they come up. (Or find a firm with a larger antitrust group.) Can't help you will appellate work. I don't know of any firm that brings on junior associates to do appellate work specifically absent their own case being appealed and them staying on it.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:14 am

Just starting to make my bid list. Any firms I should definitely or definitely not bid for? 2 H's and 8 P's...I think this puts me slightly below median. Looking to do corporate.

Interested in Boston (working here this summer, SO here, and I just love the city) and LA (grew up in SoCal and went to undergrad in LA).

Any NY firms with large class sizes I should bid for as backups? I am doing the BLG Job Fair so I might have a few extra bids available.

lawbeahs · Post by **lawbeahs** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:28 am

Updated bid list and would appreciate comments. 2DS, 2H, 6P. Intersted in litigation. Bidding on Boston primarily with some DC. I know it's probably smarter/safer to do Boston/NY but I strongly prefer DC to NY. Let me know if this is a really bad idea please!

1. Mintz
2. Jones Day
3. K & L Gates
4. Choate
5. Skadden
6. Morgan Lewis
7. Cooley
8. Nixon
9. Fish
10. Proskauer
11. Goulston
12. foley hoag
13. Nelson Mullins
14. Nutter
15. Ropes
16. WilmerHale
17. Goodwin
18. Sidley Austin
19. McDermott, Will, Emory
20. Holland and Knight
21. Foley and Lardner
22. Latham
23. Sullivan and Worcester
24. Brown Rudnick
25. Dechert
26. Pepper Hamilton
27. Covington (DC)
28. Kirkland Ellis (DC)
29. Cleary (DC)
30. Jenner and Block (DC)
31. Wilkie Farr (DC)
32. Cadwalader (DC)
33. Paul Weiss (DC)
34. Milbank (DC)
35. Sheppard (DC)

wwwcol · Post by **wwwcol** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:22 pm

lawbeahs wrote:Updated bid list and would appreciate comments. 2DS, 2H, 6P. Intersted in litigation. Bidding on Boston primarily with some DC. I know it's probably smarter/safer to do Boston/NY but I strongly prefer DC to NY. Let me know if this is a really bad idea please!

1. Mintz
2. Jones Day
3. K & L Gates
4. Choate
5. Skadden
6. Morgan Lewis
7. Cooley
8. Nixon
9. Fish
10. Proskauer
11. Goulston
12. Foley Hoag
13. Nelson Mullins
14. Nutter
15. Ropes
16. WilmerHale
17. Goodwin
18. Sidley Austin
19. McDermott, Will, Emory
20. Holland and Knight
21. Foley and Lardner
22. Latham
23. Sullivan and Worcester
24. Brown Rudnick
25. Dechert
26. Pepper Hamilton
27. Covington (DC)
28. Kirkland Ellis (DC)
29. Cleary (DC)
30. Jenner and Block (DC)
31. Wilkie Farr (DC)
32. Cadwalader (DC)
33. Paul Weiss (DC)
34. Milbank (DC)
35. Sheppard (DC)

I don't think the idea of bidding Boston and DC is inherently bad but your DC list isn't gonna go far. First, I am confused by the firm selection. The only ones that really make sense to me are KE Covington and PW. The others are tiny classes and/or do not handle a lot of litigation. With your grades, I would try going for larger, non selective classes with good litigation practices (eg Hogan). Second, I suspect you're ranking most or all of the DC firms too low to get interciews. You should compare bids to interciews to figure out where you need to be ranking

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:41 pm

TripTrip wrote: I won't comment on the bid list, but I do want to address backgrounds and practice groups real quick. Backgrounds are a great way to start a conversation about why you are interested in a particular area of law. But that's it. Attorneys assume you have no working knowledge about practicing law in your particular area of interest and will roll their eyes if you try to convince them otherwise. My background screams white collar criminal defense (I used to conduct internal investigations) and my firm has a huge WC practice, but when I first got here they put me on pharmaceutical patent litigation because that's where the work was.

0L here (pls don't hurt me), but I have a question: does this apply for tech people as well? I'm interested in some GP firms for their patent lit practice. Should I not expect to be put in patent lit during an SA? Would it be better to apply to boutique firms that only do patent work if that's all I'm interested in?

nothingtosee · Post by **nothingtosee** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TripTrip wrote: I won't comment on the bid list, but I do want to address backgrounds and practice groups real quick. Backgrounds are a great way to start a conversation about why you are interested in a particular area of law. But that's it. Attorneys assume you have no working knowledge about practicing law in your particular area of interest and will roll their eyes if you try to convince them otherwise. My background screams white collar criminal defense (I used to conduct internal investigations) and my firm has a huge WC practice, but when I first got here they put me on pharmaceutical patent litigation because that's where the work was.
0L here (pls don't hurt me), but I have a question: does this apply for tech people as well? I'm interested in some GP firms for their patent lit practice. Should I not expect to be put in patent lit during an SA? Would it be better to apply to boutique firms that only do patent work if that's all I'm interested in?

0L posting anon in the HLS EIP 2015 thread.
Ok

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:55 pm

I'm looking at the D.C. litigation market. I have 2 DS's, 4 H's, and 4 P's (including my two LRW classes and my BLL elective). What are my chances for these firms? (This is a tentative bid list.)

1. Wiley Rein
2. Jones Day
3. Williams & Connolly LLP
4. Kirkland & Ellis
5. Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison
6. Covington & Burling LLP
7. Hogan Lovells
8. Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld
9. Ropes & Gray
10. sidley austin llp
11. Latham & Watkins
12. Steptoe & Johnson
13. Sullivan & Cromwell
14. Arnold & Porter
15. paul hastings llp
16. mayer brown llp
17. Baker & McKenzie
18. King & Spalding
19. Baker Botts
20. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
21. O'Melveny & Myers
22. Winston & Strawn LLP
23. Hughes Hubbard & Reed
24. Boies Schiller & Flexner
25. Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher
26. Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
27. BakerHostetler
28. Shearman & Sterling
29. Goodwin Procter
30. Debevoise & Plimpton
31. Vinson & Elkins
32. Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:50 am

nothingtosee wrote:
0L posting anon in the HLS EIP 2015 thread.
Ok

I think it's a fair follow-up question, even if won't apply to me for ~4 months until I'm applying for 1L SAs.

Besides, I think you underestimate the combination of free time and neuroticism present in many 0Ls (myself included) after they quit their jobs.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:14 am

Hey everyone. Looking for some advice on a bid list! Have not submitted to OCS, but thought I'd ask the hive mind of TLS first.
Grades: 1 DS, 4 H, 5 P. Let me know if this list is over-ambitious. I'm shooting for litigation, so if anyone has firms I missed or firms I should bid higher I'd appreciate the help! Mostly NY, but a couple LA.

1. Boies Schiller
2. Cravath (NY)
3. Debevoise (NY)
4. Skadden (NY)
5. Cleary (NY)
6. Simpson Thacher (NY)
7. Covington & Burling (NY)
8. Gibson Dunn (NY or LA)
9. Sidley Austin (NY)
10. Paul Weiss (NY)
11. Davis Polk (NY)
12. Sullivan & Cromwell (NY)
13. Weil Gotshal (NY)
14. O'Melveny & Myers (LA)
15. Freshfields (NY)
16. Proskauer Rose (NY)
17. Latham & Watkins (NY)
18. White & Case (NY)
19. Cahill Gordon (NY)
20. Munger Tolles (LA)
21. Latham & Watkins (LA)
22. WilmerHale (NY)
23. Jones Day (NY)
24. Mayer Brown (NY)
25. Arnold & Porter (NY)
26. Jenner & Block (NY)
27. Hogan Lovells (NY)

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