Columbia EIP 2015

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:05 pm

Once you've gotten a CB, how much do grades continue to matter? IE if you got a CB somewhere you thought was out of your grade range, have you pretty much cleared the grade hurdle and now it's just about fit?


I think concensus is that grades can matter still depending on the partner, the committee, and the other candidates you are competing with for the position. They are not as relevant as they once were, but if you're on the lower end there's still pressure to show off a bit more than someone who has better grades.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are the people who got a lot of CBs finding you had mostly talked about things other than law/the law firm during those interviews? Did the interviewer talk more or less than you? This info may be most valuable from someone who got 6+ CBs but doesn't have exceptional grades or law review.
I got fewer CBs than anticipated and want to know what to do differently when I go into offices.


I don't have 6 CBs but i have a 3.08 and 5 CBs and don't even consider myself particularly successful with interviews since i have had plenty of duds and dings.

Its very hit or miss and dependent on the interviewer but most of my interviews were just about law/the firm/law school. I think the key is not the content of the convo, but the delivery (obviously content matters to the point that you don't say anything tactless). I try to smile, to laugh, sometimes be sarcastic, frank, and even self depreciating (despite the warning from career services to exude confidence and be fake). Tell little anecdotes about classes or law school experiences in the same way that you would tell your friends. You want to come off as a friendly relatable person who can make a conversation about boring law stuff fun. But thats just my 2 cents and like i said above, i don't consider myself a fantastic interviewer by any means.


Maybe you're better than you think at interviewing. Not trying to brag at all here, but I have somewhere around a 3.3 and sitting on no CBs. I've only heard from 5 of 21 interviews. Could also be location, I focused on New York with three interviews elsewhere.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are the people who got a lot of CBs finding you had mostly talked about things other than law/the law firm during those interviews? Did the interviewer talk more or less than you? This info may be most valuable from someone who got 6+ CBs but doesn't have exceptional grades or law review.
I got fewer CBs than anticipated and want to know what to do differently when I go into offices.


I don't have 6 CBs but i have a 3.08 and 5 CBs and don't even consider myself particularly successful with interviews since i have had plenty of duds and dings.

Its very hit or miss and dependent on the interviewer but most of my interviews were just about law/the firm/law school. I think the key is not the content of the convo, but the delivery (obviously content matters to the point that you don't say anything tactless). I try to smile, to laugh, sometimes be sarcastic, frank, and even self depreciating (despite the warning from career services to exude confidence and be fake). Tell little anecdotes about classes or law school experiences in the same way that you would tell your friends. You want to come off as a friendly relatable person who can make a conversation about boring law stuff fun. But thats just my 2 cents and like i said above, i don't consider myself a fantastic interviewer by any means.


^^I agree, I have ~3.12, 5 CBs, 6 dings and 13 still in limbo. I wouldn't say I'm the best interviewer but I try to read the interviewer and make small/talk crack a few jokes when I think it'll be received well. I also try to have a good story included in all my responses and appear excited whenever talking about past work or projects (even if I'm not). Also, when I spoke with OCS I was told not to panic yet because a lot of firms are just slower at responding once you get out of V10-15, even in NY (I only bid NY).

My recommendation, if you have anyone in OCS that you feel comfortable talking to/isn't totally useless, just email them which firms you've heard back from (CB and dings) and which ones you're still waiting on. They be brutally honest about which ones are probably not going to give you a CB (atleast they were with me). Good luck hope this helps.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:15 pm

same poster with the 3.08 from above

It could also be what firms you bid. I bid really really safe with my grades, only bid 2 or 3 firms that had greater than 50% honors and I only did NYC. Only 2 of my CBs are v50 and I didn't expect to land a job with a "prestigious" firm.

edit: 6 CBs now. To all future CLS rising 2Ls who are freaked about about having crap grades going into EIP, its not the end of the world.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:19 pm

I'm about 3.17 and have one callback (v30). Sitting on potential strikeout. I realize that I was a bit nervous during interviews but I also think that I got screwed on the bidding. I ended up with 18 firms (one which was a reach in London) and was unable to add any. It's annoying because a lot of the firms I missed were in my range.

The following are the rejections I have gotten so far:

Willkie
Schulte
Clifford Chance
Kramer Levin
Fried Frank
Greenberg
Allen & Overy
Chadbourne

Still waiting to hear on, but I have to imagine ding at this point:

K&L Gates
Paul Hastings LLP
Cahill Gordon
Mayer Brown LLP
Hogan Lovells
Akin Gump
Stroock & Stroock
Kaye Scholer LLP
Vinson & Elkins LLP

In any case, this system sucks. A year ago I felt like I had so much potential; now I feel like I'm trying to crawl myself out an ever deeper pit.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:same poster with the 3.08 from above

It could also be what firms you bid. I bid really really safe with my grades, only bid 2 or 3 firms that had greater than 50% honors and I only did NYC. Only 2 of my CBs are v50 and I didn't expect to land a job with a "prestigious" firm.

edit: 6 CBs now. To all future CLS rising 2Ls who are freaked about about having crap grades going into EIP, its not the end of the world.


I bid a lot of really high firms, at least half ranked on Vault because my advisors told me I could be more liberal with that. In retrospect, terrible choice.

The only thing right now keeping me from going insane is that I didn't manage to interview even half of the firms I was interested in over EIP, so I still have a chance with them, even with mass mailing.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:41 pm

I wasn't aiming for high Vault rankings and it seems to have been a good strategy. Also, I second whoever said that the interviews that ended in callbacks seem to mostly have been where it was extremely casual/conversational.

Also - everyone ITT is mentioning GPAs...I didn't know we had GPAs. Did you just calculate them on the normal 4.0 scale? Or is there a special CLS GPA calculator I just somehow missed entirely?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wasn't aiming for high Vault rankings and it seems to have been a good strategy. Also, I second whoever said that the interviews that ended in callbacks seem to mostly have been where it was extremely casual/conversational.

Also - everyone ITT is mentioning GPAs...I didn't know we had GPAs. Did you just calculate them on the normal 4.0 scale? Or is there a special CLS GPA calculator I just somehow missed entirely?


Random guesswork. There's no real way to know, but I ran mine through a standard GPA calculator. That's the closest to accuracy I can get. Of course, one calculator puts me at a .1 lower than a different calculator.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I wasn't aiming for high Vault rankings and it seems to have been a good strategy. Also, I second whoever said that the interviews that ended in callbacks seem to mostly have been where it was extremely casual/conversational.

Also - everyone ITT is mentioning GPAs...I didn't know we had GPAs. Did you just calculate them on the normal 4.0 scale? Or is there a special CLS GPA calculator I just somehow missed entirely?


Random guesswork. There's no real way to know, but I ran mine through a standard GPA calculator. That's the closest to accuracy I can get. Of course, one calculator puts me at a .1 lower than a different calculator.


I'm confused...why would you need a GPA calculator? can't you just add them up and divide?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:50 pm

You can calculate your weighted GPA. A = 4, A- = 3.66, B+ = 3.33, etc. Multiply each letter grade by the credits you get for that class, add them all up and divide by the total number of credits you've taken. That's your GPA.
3 CBs also previously mentioned by others. Rejections from WH DC, Chadbourne DC, Paul Hastings DC, Cravath. Should have been more conservative in bidding.
Have past years had success with mass mailing?
Any word from Gibson?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:51 pm

Its 3.67 for A- and 3.33 for B+.

No word from GDC NY.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I wasn't aiming for high Vault rankings and it seems to have been a good strategy. Also, I second whoever said that the interviews that ended in callbacks seem to mostly have been where it was extremely casual/conversational.

Also - everyone ITT is mentioning GPAs...I didn't know we had GPAs. Did you just calculate them on the normal 4.0 scale? Or is there a special CLS GPA calculator I just somehow missed entirely?


Random guesswork. There's no real way to know, but I ran mine through a standard GPA calculator. That's the closest to accuracy I can get. Of course, one calculator puts me at a .1 lower than a different calculator.


I'm confused...why would you need a GPA calculator? can't you just add them up and divide?


Some classes are worth 3 units and others are worth 4 units.

For all the rising 2Ls, almost everyone will get a job, but you may have to work hard for it. Several people I know got their firm job through mass mailing. You should start now, and if you do get an interview, ask a friend or two to mock interview and see what they think is wrong or works well.

Now is a shitty time but it's not the time to just wait or shut down, either. If you end up getting callbacks from a few of the firms that haven't contacted you yet, that's wonderful. But it's a lot better to mail soon and not regret it than wait to see what comes of what's left.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wasn't aiming for high Vault rankings and it seems to have been a good strategy. Also, I second whoever said that the interviews that ended in callbacks seem to mostly have been where it was extremely casual/conversational.

Also - everyone ITT is mentioning GPAs...I didn't know we had GPAs. Did you just calculate them on the normal 4.0 scale? Or is there a special CLS GPA calculator I just somehow missed entirely?


Same guy here who posted about bidding firms with higher offers by honors, I think another problem is I don't think I looked at a single Vault list during my EIP process. So I probably didn't look to see if any of the firms were way out of my league.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:02 pm

A friend of mine at Skadden explained that there, and at some other firms, the recruitment dept will create a 'maybe' pile filled back up resumes in case first round picks don't pan out. So, that could explain why so many of us are being left out to dry. Not sure how excited I would be going into a CB knowing I'm a back up, but I guess it's all relative to the ranking of the firm.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm about 3.17 and have one callback (v30). Sitting on potential strikeout. I realize that I was a bit nervous during interviews but I also think that I got screwed on the bidding. I ended up with 18 firms (one which was a reach in London) and was unable to add any. It's annoying because a lot of the firms I missed were in my range.

The following are the rejections I have gotten so far:

Willkie
Schulte
Clifford Chance
Kramer Levin
Fried Frank
Greenberg
Allen & Overy
Chadbourne

Still waiting to hear on, but I have to imagine ding at this point:

K&L Gates
Paul Hastings LLP
Cahill Gordon
Mayer Brown LLP
Hogan Lovells
Akin Gump
Stroock & Stroock
Kaye Scholer LLP
Vinson & Elkins LLP

In any case, this system sucks. A year ago I felt like I had so much potential; now I feel like I'm trying to crawl myself out an ever deeper pit.


I know exactly how you feel. i fared even worse in the stupid lottery, though i should have been more thoughtful making my list. seeing future 1Ls is like a punch in the gut, because I remember thinking there were so many possibilities and now everything feels closed off.

Anyway, don't have any advice-- but before the barrage of "omg you are an aberration, most of MY friends have at least 32 cbs and i got 8 with firms i didnt even apply to!!!"-- just wanted to say that you're not alone, and i'm rooting for you!

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:A friend of mine at Skadden explained that there, and at some other firms, the recruitment dept will create a 'maybe' pile filled back up resumes in case first round picks don't pan out. So, that could explain why so many of us are being left out to dry. Not sure how excited I would be going into a CB knowing I'm a back up, but I guess it's all relative to the ranking of the firm.

Not speaking specifically about Skadden, but the "maybe" piles are more for CB--> Offer (hence there is more variability in how long it takes to get an offer). Firms don't usually do this wait and see approach for Screener --> CB.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:28 pm

How likely is it to go CB-->Offer? I know there's a list somewhere on Symplicity but I can't find it...

Also do you research individuals in the firm in your practice group even if they don't give you a list? How do you research?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:35 pm

Very high stone (3.7+) and only 4/30 CBs so far (only one ding so far). 2 are from the v10, but still pretty surprised/concerned. I assume this means I need to do more practice interviews before callbacks? (My practice interviewers generally had only positive feedback, for what it's worth)

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:37 pm

Sorry for popping up with this question in the middle of the carnage: but did anyone hear a ding/CB from Shearman, Proskauer, Kaye Scholer, and Orrick?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How likely is it to go CB-->Offer? I know there's a list somewhere on Symplicity but I can't find it...

Also do you research individuals in the firm in your practice group even if they don't give you a list? How do you research?


For the firms I was looking at, about 1/2 - 2/3. But it depends on the firm, because some are lower and some are near 100%.

I don't think you need to worry about looking up individuals if they do not provide them. Just have a few good questions in mind that you can adjust depending on their practice area.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry for popping up with this question in the middle of the carnage: but did anyone hear a ding/CB from Shearman, Proskauer, Kaye Scholer, and Orrick?


Kaye Scholer (SB) CB yesterday evening

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:53 pm

Looking for info on Proskauer (CP)

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Very high stone (3.7+) and only 4/30 CBs so far (only one ding so far). 2 are from the v10, but still pretty surprised/concerned. I assume this means I need to do more practice interviews before callbacks? (My practice interviewers generally had only positive feedback, for what it's worth)


If you were bidding LA/DC firms, this result isn't surprising at this stage. If all NY, it's a little lower than your grades would suggest but nothing to freak out over. I know people whose only offer was a V5 - you just need one.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:34 pm

Anything from Skadden (DY) or Simpson (KK)? Both ny.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:35 pm

Some free advice from an interviewer: I see a lot of the below-median folks are shooting for less selective firms, and that's a good first step, but you still need to remember your job as a candidate - give a firm a reason to hire you. It's not enough to say "I'll have a CLS degree and I'm normal so, here I am". Well, maybe that is enough at some places, particularly in a secondary market in which you have close ties. But generally, and especially in NYC, wont fly.

Maybe your pitch is "look at my amazing personality /charisma". That's a reason to hire you, not a lot of us lawyers have that.

But lets assume, for sake of argument, that you can't offer that, because you know, you're like the rest of us and a total dork. What then? Each candidate will have a different answer, but instead of chasing a unicorn like all of a sudden turning yourself into the most likeable guy/gal in the room, think about what you realistically can offer. Can you subtly imply you will work harder than everyone else? That you really want biglaw, that you're not just in it to pay off debt for 3 years and bail? (Youd be surprised how many people simply can't say that with a straight face.) Can you imply that you're very professional, have good experience in a high pressure environment and will be a useful resource from day 1? Maybe you have some specialized interest in a practice area that the first wants to hire for, but that isn't otherwise attractive to other candidates with better grades.

All the stuff you hear about turning an interview into a chatty, relaxed conversation is true. That will help a lot, and you have to make sure you don't come off as "pitch-y". But don't forget that everyone needs to give the interviewer a reason why you should be hired, and if grades aren't that reason, then you have to have something else and weave it into the narrative that you're following in your interviews.




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