Columbia EIP 2015

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Anonymous User
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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:39 pm

Hey! Thanks for the advice, I (tried) to reorder them according to FFB, how does this look? Any firms I'm missing that I should include?

1. Proskauer Rose (NY)
FFB 1
2. . Sidley Austin LLP (NY)
FFB 4
3. Gibson Dunn
FFB 5
4. Skadden (NY)
FFB 7
5. Paul Hastings (NY)
FFB 8
6. WilmerHale
FFB 9
7. Weil Gotshal
FFB 11
8. Debevoise & Plimpton
FFB 9
9. Jones Day (IL, FL)
FFB 11,19,30
10. Linklaters
FFB 11
11. Clifford
FFB 11
12. Paul Hastings (IL)
FFB 14
13. Winston Strawn (IL)
FFB * (NY=19)
14. Sullivan and Cromwell
FFB 15
15. Ropes and Gray (NY)
FFB 18
16. Covington and Burling
FFB 20
17. Cahill
FFB 19
18. Baker & McKenzie (IL, FL)
FFB *
19. Davis Polk
FFB 21
20. Fried Frank
FFB 21
21. Ropes and Gray (IL)
FFB *
22. Cravath
FFB 26
23.Hogan Lovells (FL) (NY also, but no multiple)
FFB *
24. O’Melveny & [deleted] (NY) decent hours and entertainment law
FFB 25
25. Paul Weiss
FFB *
26. While & Case (FL)
FFB *
27. Simpson Thacher
FFB *
28. Skadden (IL)
FFB *
29. Holland & Knight (FL)
FFB 30
30. Lantham Watkins (IL)
FFB *
33. Kirkland & Ellis (IL)
FFB *
34. Greenberg Taurig (FL)
FFB *
36. Foley & Lardner (IL, FL)
FFB *

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:41 pm

You're using the wrong FFB data. You're using the one from two years ago, I believe, rather than last year's - I remember Paul Hastings going at 2 last year, for example. That may affect the rest of your bid list.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:13 pm

Also, for the Chicago and Florida firms that are *, that you really means you don't have to bid them earlier than 20.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:54 am

Dear transfer who just posted: listen to jbagelboy and organize your bid list by First Failed Bid.

BTW, I doubt any of O'Melveny, Milbank, nor Willkie Farr will have decent hours. In NYC BigLaw, you're more likely to get variants of bad: bad, awful, dreadful, and killself. Hope that you end up with "only" bad hours.

Also, O'Melveny's entertainment practice is based in LA. You won't be doing any of that work in the NY office. And on that note, I'm not sure why jbagelboy said O'Melveny "may or may not survive." Yes, they have lost some partners recently and PPP has dipped. But you have to keep in mind 2012 was O'Melveny's best year yet and this was mostly due to some special fee arrangements for that particular year. I doubt they're going anywhere; it's not as if they're highly leveraged like Dewey.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:00 am

You guys are the best!!! Would you mind taking one last look? I've tried to incorporate all the feedback into the list:

1. Proskauer Rose (NY) FFB 1
2. Sidley Austin LLP (NY)FFB 2
3. Skadden (NY)FFB 4
4. Gibson DunnFFB 4
5. Paul Hastings (NY/IL)FFB 2
6. Debevoise & Plimpton FFB 6
7. Weil GotshalFFB 8
8. WilmerHale FFB 8
9. LinklatersFFB 9
10. CliffordFFB 9
11. Arnold & Porter FFB 9
12. Sullivan and Cromwell FFB 14
13. Ropes and Gray (NY/IL) FB 14
14. Paul Weiss FFB 14
15. Cahill FFB 16
16. Cadwalder FFB 17
17. Davis PolkFFB 19
18. Fried Frank FFB 19
19. Covington and BurlingFFB 20
20. Jones Day (IL, FL) FFB *
21. CravathFFB 26
22. O’Melveny & [deleted] (NY) FFB 25
23. Simpson ThacherFFB 30
24. Skadden (IL)FFB 30
25. Wachtell LiptonFFB 28
26. Greenberg Taurig (FL)FFB 29
27. Holland & Knight (FL)FFB 30
28. Winston Strawn (IL)FFB *
29. While & Case (FL)FFB *
30. Lantham Watkins (IL)FFB *

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:You guys are the best!!! Would you mind taking one last look? I've tried to incorporate all the feedback into the list:

1. Proskauer Rose (NY) FFB 1
2. Sidley Austin LLP (NY)FFB 2
3. Skadden (NY)FFB 4
4. Gibson DunnFFB 4
5. Paul Hastings (NY/IL)FFB 2
6. Debevoise & Plimpton FFB 6
7. Weil GotshalFFB 8
8. WilmerHale FFB 8
9. LinklatersFFB 9
10. CliffordFFB 9
11. Arnold & Porter FFB 9
12. Sullivan and Cromwell FFB 14
13. Ropes and Gray (NY/IL) FB 14
14. Paul Weiss FFB 14
15. Cahill FFB 16
16. Cadwalder FFB 17
17. Davis PolkFFB 19
18. Fried Frank FFB 19
19. Covington and BurlingFFB 20
20. Jones Day (IL, FL) FFB *
21. CravathFFB 26
22. O’Melveny & [deleted] (NY) FFB 25
23. Simpson ThacherFFB 30
24. Skadden (IL)FFB 30
25. Wachtell LiptonFFB 28
26. Greenberg Taurig (FL)FFB 29
27. Holland & Knight (FL)FFB 30
28. Winston Strawn (IL)FFB *
29. While & Case (FL)FFB *
30. Lantham Watkins (IL)FFB *


Hi! So, you're definitely still going to lose a LOT of firms with this list. You should listen to what jbagelboy says--at least 1 higher, but 2+ higher than last year's FFB if you want to secure the firm. For example, you have Gibson at 4. Last year it was at 4. This makes it HIGHLY unlikely you're going to secure a screener interview with Gibson. Debevoise is at 6, last year it failed at 6. You're probably not going to get a screener with Debevoise if you bid them at slot 6.

The unfortunate part is that this means that at the very top of your list (from slots 1-14, essentially, is where I see the most problems), you're going to have to choose NOW what firms you will and will not bid on. There is the Add/Drop period next week in which you can hope to add firms in that you could not bid on, or that you may have missed out on in the bidding process. But as it stands now, you're just not going to get Paul Hastings by putting them at 5, when their FFB was 2 last year. It's just a very popular firm at CLS, with a smaller number of interview slots compared to a firm like Simpson, that you can leave down in the 20s and still get a screener.

It really sucks that at this point, you have to choose whether to put Proskauer, Sidley, or PH at slot 1/2, but that's the way it works. At the bottom of your list, you're cutting things real close by putting Fried Frank at 18, Covington at 19, etc.

Think about how much you want to interview at a particular firm. If you REALLY want it, then you should bid it by comparing it to the FFB last year, and then slotting it 1-3 (at LEAST) higher than last year's FFB number. You just can't bid on all the firms you have here. Without following these steps, you risk striking out purely through poor bidding. Lots of things happen during add/drop, so keep that in mind.

Just a thought: You can always mass mail firms in Florida and Chicago (look on Symplicity--some of these firms have resume drop going on right now; if you don't know what I'm talking about, call up OCS; they'll be able to show you what to do there) so consider that when you're thinking about whether to add a firm to your list as well.

Also, without knowing what your practice area interests, it's a bit tough for us to help you prioritize.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:01 am

O man...well first of all thanks for the feedback, I can't tell you how grateful I am.

So like I said earlier (I think), I'd like to do corporate, particularly M&A or securities (my dream would be entertainment and sports but I know that's not really doable). I'd also like to go to a more collegial firm if possible (for example I heard Paul Hastings is great for that)

So is conventional wisdom that I EITHER bid sidley or Paul Hastings? Because I can only put one at 2?

And if so many of the firms last year ended up with higher FFB numbers, shouldn't some be lower as well?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:03 am

Anon above is correct. Transfer: you're going to miss a ton of those bids.

And yes, some FFB will be lower this year. But you can't know which. Right now, your list is too risky.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:10 am

O man...well first of all thanks for the feedback, I can't tell you how grateful I am.

So like I said earlier (I think), I'd like to do corporate, particularly M&A or securities (my dream would be entertainment and sports but I know that's not really doable). I'd also like to go to a more collegial firm if possible (for example I heard Paul Hastings is great for that)

So is conventional wisdom that I EITHER bid sidley or Paul Hastings? Because I can only put one at 2?

And if so many of the firms last year ended up with higher FFB numbers, shouldn't some be lower as well?


Oh, if you said it earlier, then apologies for missing that!

I don't know who does entertainment and sports, though off the top of my head, Proskauer and Debevoise jump out. In terms of your firms, I don't see any that jump out as wrongfully chosen for their practice areas. You just need to think about what to remove and keep.

And I know reading through the thread is cumbersome, but yes, it is conventional wisdom that at this point, you can only bid one of the two. There were a bunch of firms with FFB at 1 or 2 on this year's document from OCS, and that creates hard choices for rising 2L's...but these are firms that are known for being more "lifestyle" firms and/or they have just less interview slots--thus creating this weird bottlenose.

Most firms ended up with higher FFB numbers last year because last year was the first year that the FFB stats were released at all to students. This is the second year where we have that information. So it's really unclear how that'll change how much things move. But some firms moved as much as 6 slots UP at last year's EIP (or perhaps more--I don't have the sheet in front of me right now from last year's EIP). The firms that have lots of screeners or just aren't super popular at CLS stayed toward the bottom. Think Cravath; Simpson; or firms in Florida, where FFB pretty much stayed at "*" or way closer to 30. Unlikely that Florida will have lots of popularity this year, but I know with California, the FFB number for CA firms can vary wildly just based on how popular that market is with CLS students for a particular year.

- Anon (from above) Trying to Save the Transfer from Losing Bids

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby wons » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:O man...well first of all thanks for the feedback, I can't tell you how grateful I am.

So like I said earlier (I think), I'd like to do corporate, particularly M&A or securities (my dream would be entertainment and sports but I know that's not really doable). I'd also like to go to a more collegial firm if possible (for example I heard Paul Hastings is great for that)

So is conventional wisdom that I EITHER bid sidley or Paul Hastings? Because I can only put one at 2?

And if so many of the firms last year ended up with higher FFB numbers, shouldn't some be lower as well?


If you want some unsolicited free advice worth as much as it costs, please PM me.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:53 am

Thanks guys! So I'm going to reorder my list and hopefully (if it's cool with you guys) I'll resend it.

Also if I remove a place like Paul Hastings, should I put it at 30? Just so when I don't get it I can reach out and be like "hey I bid you highly but didn't get you and I'd love a chance to interview, etc.

Or is that stupid?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:43 pm

Sorry....can I buy all of you guys (and girls) a beer when I get to NYC? Dead serious...like I really appreciate it

1. Proskauer Rose LLP (New York, NY) (1)
2. Sidley Austin LLP (New York, NY) (2)
3. Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom (New York, NY) (4)
4.Debevoise & Plimpton LLP (New York, NY) (6)
5.Weil Gotshal & Manges LLP (New York, NY) (8)
6.WilmerHale LLP (New York, NY) (8)
7.Clifford Chance US LLP (New York,NY)
8.Arnold & Porter LLP (New York, NY)(9)
9.Morrison & Foerster LLP (New York, NY)
10.Ropes & Gray (14)
11.Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP (New York, NY) (14)
12.Sullivan & Cromwell LLP (New York, NY) (14)
13.Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (New York, NY - Corporate Group) (21)
14.Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP (New York, NY)(16)
15.Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft LLP (New York, NY) (17)
16.Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP (New York, NY)(19)
17.Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP (New York, NY) (19)
18.Covington & Burling LLP (New York, NY)(20)
19.Jones Day (NOT NY)*
20. K&L Gates LLP (New York, NY)(21)
21. O'Melveny & [deleted] LLP (New York, NY)(22)
22.Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP (New York, NY)(26)
23.Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP (New York, NY) (30)
24.Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz (New York, NY)(28)
25.Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom (Chicago, IL)
26.Latham & Watkins LLP (Chicago, IL)
27.White & Case LLP (Miami, FL)
28.Greenberg Traurig LLP (Miami, FL) (29)
29.Winston Strawn(IL)
30.Holland & Knight LLP (30)

And maybe Paul Hastings down here too so I can tell them I tried
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry....can I buy all of you guys (and girls) a beer when I get to NYC? Dead serious...like I really appreciate it

1. Proskauer Rose LLP (New York, NY) (1)

2. Sidley Austin LLP (New York, NY) (2)

3. Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom (New York, NY) (4)

4.Debevoise & Plimpton LLP (New York, NY) (6)

5.Weil Gotshal & Manges LLP (New York, NY) (8)

6. WilmerHale LLP (New York, NY) (8) Morrison & Foerster LLP (New York, NY) (12)

7. Arnold & Porter LLP (New York, NY) WilmerHale LLP (New York, NY) (8)
8. Clifford Chance US LLP (New York, NY) (9)

9. Morrison & Foerster LLP (New York, NY) Arnold & Porter LLP (New York, NY) (9)

10. Ropes & Gray (14)

11.Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP (New York, NY) (14)

12.Sullivan & Cromwell LLP (New York, NY) (14)

13.Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (New York, NY - Corporate Group) (21)

14.Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP (New York, NY)(16)

15.Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft LLP (New York, NY) (17)

16.Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP (New York, NY)(19)

17.Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP (New York, NY) (19)

18.Covington & Burling LLP (New York, NY)(20)

19. K&L Gates LLP (New York, NY)(21) Jones Day (NOT NY)*

20. O'Melveny & [deleted] LLP (New York, NY)(22) K&L Gates LLP (New York, NY)(21)

21. Greenberg Traurig LLP (Miami, FL) O'Melveny & [deleted] LLP (New York, NY)(22)

22.Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP (New York, NY)(26)

23.Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP (New York, NY) (30)

24.Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz (New York, NY)(28)

25.Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom (Chicago, IL)

26.Latham & Watkins LLP (Chicago, IL)

27. Holland & Knight LLP (30) White & Case LLP (Miami, FL)
28. Jones Day (Not NY) Greenberg Traurig LLP (Miami, FL) (29)
29. Winston Strawn(IL)

30. White & Case LLP (Miami, FL) Holland & Knight LLP (30)

And maybe Paul Hastings down here too so I can tell them I tried


my suggested corrections.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:02 pm

Thanks!!

Only one thing-so jones day FL would be my number one choice...may sound stupid but like is take that over cravath or skadden...will I still for sure get an interview putting it that low?

Aside from that, once I add those corrections do you think I'm good to go?

Also PM me because I gotta hit you back-dinner or a beer or something. You're a life saver (SowhatsNU)

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:04 pm

That list looks pretty solid assuming you're coming in with really good grades. Not much point in interviewing with Wachtell but you aren't risking much with a bid that low. Be aggressive about adding more interviews via add/drop and mass mail every Chicago and Florida firm not on the list ASAP. Also get in at least one practice interview with career services.

Re: JD not NY feel free to put it a little higher than you think you need if it's your number one. Just don't get too caught up with the idea of any one firm because this process can get pretty unpredictable. Main goal right now is to get a job.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:23 pm

Thanks for the tips!

Also what do you mean when you say Really good grades? Like should I assume if they're good enough to transfer they're good enough for those firms? Or do you mean a firm percentile cutoff?

As for mass mail, should I do that before I get my bidlist results back? And yea I plan on blanketing every big firm in FL as well as a ton in NY (is there anything to say in regards to why I didn't bid on them?)

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the tips!

Also what do you mean when you say Really good grades? Like should I assume if they're good enough to transfer they're good enough for those firms? Or do you mean a firm percentile cutoff?

As for mass mail, should I do that before I get my bidlist results back? And yea I plan on blanketing every big firm in FL as well as a ton in NY (is there anything to say in regards to why I didn't bid on them?)


Actual transfer students who have gone through this process can speak to this more specifically, but here's my impression:

The more selective firms will recruit based on where in the class they would have pulled from at your 1L school. So if Wachtell didn't recruit from your 1L school it's very unlikely they will give you a CB as a transfer. Transfers tend to do very well with the bread & butter wall street firms because they have the benefit of a strong 1L record and CLS, but you rarely see them at the most selective places. For the firms that traditionally look for honors from CLS but aren't super picky (S&C/DPW/Cravath/Simpson/Cleary), my sense is you'll need to have a little more impressive background than the "average" transfer, but you can definitely still get an offer esp if they would have recruited from your 1L school.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the tips!

Also what do you mean when you say Really good grades? Like should I assume if they're good enough to transfer they're good enough for those firms? Or do you mean a firm percentile cutoff?

As for mass mail, should I do that before I get my bidlist results back? And yea I plan on blanketing every big firm in FL as well as a ton in NY (is there anything to say in regards to why I didn't bid on them?)

It's hard to say what grades are needed for transfers. You're probably fine, but definitely talk to career services for more info. Your bid list would be solid for someone in the Stone scholar range at CLS which is above a 3.4. I guess my main worry is that transferring has gotten easier in recent years and if you were only like top 20% at American or something but managed to snag CLS you'd need to be much more conservative. You don't want to waste bids on a place where you'd have had no shot before the transfer.

For mass mail feel free to do that now for every firm not coming to EIP, and then when you get your list back hit up everyone else. I wouldn't even bring up the fact that you did or did not bid on a firm that comes to EIP. Just hit up everyone. And you can always drop off your info in the firm's hospitality suite if they come to EIP and you want to up your chances of getting an interview.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:50 pm

Regarding grades: If you have access to the Offer by Honors Report from OCS, take a quick look at that. Of course, a lot of firms change from year to year how many students they take who have Stone/Kent, but firms like Cravath/DPW/PW/Simpson/S&C have consistently stayed very high (80%+). These are firms where if you're a Stone Scholar, you have a greater chance of getting a callback than if you're below Stone (assuming you're not an awfully awkward human being). If you're just below Stone (3.41), definitely still bid them; your interviewing skills can certainly set you apart, and of course variables like work experience, Law Review/Moot Court and the like certainly help people "punch above their weight." And if you're median or below, it's dicey to bid on these firms, though I would never say don't ever bid on these firms if someone really wants to do corporate, especially if you wanted to bid Cravath or Simpson where they have close to 200 screeners available. You never know how your screener will go. Being a diversity candidate could also be a factor in all of this.

I know Proskauer's recruiting is open to receiving resumes, transcripts, and cover letters if you didn't get a bid with them. Otherwise, I echo the others' advice re: mass mailing.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:52 pm

What are the "bread and butter" firms? Also I'm coming from WUSTL if that makes any difference...it's crazy how much of this process there is to know and how ignorant I am

I mean I'm not holding out much hope for S&C or cravath, but I have a 1L SA and STL is a very insular market so I'd like to think I'm a decent interviewer, and I'd really be shooting for a jones day-type gig, like a V20 or tops like Weil gotshal type-place...

Why can't they just have a helicopter fly over and open field and drop offers and you get to pick from whichever ones you grab? That sounds much less complicated lol

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:59 pm

Another T20 transfer frantically filling out a bid list looking for advice, gah why was I admitted so late! I tried to bid quite conservatively as I feel I was lucky to get in to Columbia with my stats , so unlike the above transfer (Who I'm actually friends with IRL, we worked together in class a few times, I'll PM you soon) I'm not aiming for top vault firms. I would prefer bay area, and have almost no preference as to practice (Slight litigation bias).

Kirkland & Ellis 1 (2)
Paul Hastings 2 (2)
Mayer Brown 3 (6)
Debevoise & Plimpton 4 (6)
Weil Gotshal & Manges 5 (8)
Kaye Scholer 6 (8)
Clifford Chance US 7 (9)
Allen & Overy 8 (10)
Millbank Tweed 9 (11)
Morrison & Foerster 10 (12)
Ropes & Gray 11 (14)
Willkie Farr 12 (14)
Cahill Gordon 13 (16)
Cadwalader 14 (17)
Akin Gump 15 (17)
Greenberg Traurig 16 (18)
Fried Frank 17 (19)
Kramer Levin 18 (20)
Goodwin Procter 19 (21)
Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto) 20 (22)
Pillsbury Winthrop 21 (23)
Hughes Hubbard 22 (24)
Dechert (23) (26)
Seward & Kissel 24 (27)
Kirkland & Ellis (SF) 25 (28)
Winston & Strawn 26 (*)
Gibson Dunn (SF) 27 (*)
Pilsbury Winthrop (SF) 28 (*)
Hunton & Williams 29 (*)
Hewlett Packard (Palo Alto) 30 (*)

Basically, was I too conservative? Am I missing out on great firms? Should I make any swaps? Thanks!

Edit: Forgot to put a handle, ~Snorlax

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:07 pm

Not sure if this is helpful Snorlax, but if your'e worried about grades at all Gibson Dunn is a waste of time. SF summer class is also very small, c. 10 people.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby lawstudent212 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:31 pm

a
Last edited by lawstudent212 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:01 am

Does CLS have a resource for the kind of important knowledge we should have for individual firms we interview with? It seems like there is so much data, that I don't know what to do with all the info for each firm and how to really individualize it. Especially if I'm doing corp NYC. What did some of the upperclassmen here do?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:09 am

Does CLS have a resource for the kind of important knowledge we should have for individual firms we interview with? It seems like there is so much data, that I don't know what to do with all the info for each firm and how to really individualize it. Especially if I'm doing corp NYC. What did some of the upperclassmen here do?




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