Columbia EIP 2015 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Four -

don't love your list, as it includes some firms who don't have great corporate practices (Hogan NY, Greenburg NY, K&L Gates NY, Kasowitz)

As someone from the outside looking in, why does Proskauer have a FFB of 1? Its a fine firm but its not as big of a corporate player as places like Milbank, W&C, Sherman, Wilkie etc.

Are there other firms you suggest? As I said, I mostly picked firms based on the number of extended offers to give myself the best chance. I am not set on practice group or even corporate v. Litigation yet, so at this point I just want to get some offers and then decide based on the firms available to me.

You are cutting it too close bidding 1 or 2 spots above FFB. Some firms jumped as many as 7 spots last year.

Also, Davis Polk's FFB was not 26.

Yeah may have messed up Davis Polk but that can be replaced as its a reach anyways. In regards to FFB, most of my first 20 bids are about 3 spots higher than last years FFB. There isn't that much wiggle room unless I discard one of the firms at the top and move everything else up one. Any suggestions?

-Four

[Anonymous User]

Four -

don't love your list, as it includes some firms who don't have great corporate practices (Hogan NY, Greenburg NY, K&L Gates NY, Kasowitz)

As someone from the outside looking in, why does Proskauer have a FFB of 1? Its a fine firm but its not as big of a corporate player as places like Milbank, W&C, Sherman, Wilkie etc.

Not OP, but FFB for Proskauer at CLS has been very high/1 in the past 2 years, whereas Milbank, W&C, Sherman, Wilkie, etc. are farther down. Good bidding strategy ≠ put better firms/favorites at the top.

That's my question. Why is everyone bidding Proskauer so high? It's like finding out that there is a waiting list to buy a Ford Focus.

[Anonymous User]

Are there other firms you suggest? As I said, I mostly picked firms based on the number of extended offers to give myself the best chance. I am not set on practice group or even corporate v. Litigation yet, so at this point I just want to get some offers and then decide based on the firms available to me.

I thought your OP indicated you were mainly interested in corporate. That should rule out firms that don't have meaningful Wall Street practices in favor of the firms that do, since its not like you can't become a litigator at, say, Shearman if the spirit moved you.

[Tiago Splitter]

Four -

don't love your list, as it includes some firms who don't have great corporate practices (Hogan NY, Greenburg NY, K&L Gates NY, Kasowitz)

As someone from the outside looking in, why does Proskauer have a FFB of 1? Its a fine firm but its not as big of a corporate player as places like Milbank, W&C, Sherman, Wilkie etc.

Not OP, but FFB for Proskauer at CLS has been very high/1 in the past 2 years, whereas Milbank, W&C, Sherman, Wilkie, etc. are farther down. Good bidding strategy ≠ put better firms/favorites at the top.

That's my question. Why is everyone bidding Proskauer so high? It's like finding out that there is a waiting list to buy a Ford Focus.

They have very few interview slots. Also people are obsessed with the idea of one day working in sports or entertainment.

[Anonymous User]

To 3L's/anyone more knowledgeable than me:

Thoughts on mass-mailing? I'm very low Stone and am generally a little anxious about the potential of striking out (don't think I'm at high risk of it, but it happens nonetheless and I'd rather cover all my bases).

I'm planning on mailing some firms I can't really fit into my bidlist (ie Shearman, Jones Day) - although my list is entirely NYC and mostly big class sizes. How deep into the Vault ranking should I be mailing? All the V50/100 or is that overly cautious?

[MCFC]

Four -

don't love your list, as it includes some firms who don't have great corporate practices (Hogan NY, Greenburg NY, K&L Gates NY, Kasowitz)

As someone from the outside looking in, why does Proskauer have a FFB of 1? Its a fine firm but its not as big of a corporate player as places like Milbank, W&C, Sherman, Wilkie etc.

Not OP, but FFB for Proskauer at CLS has been very high/1 in the past 2 years, whereas Milbank, W&C, Sherman, Wilkie, etc. are farther down. Good bidding strategy ≠ put better firms/favorites at the top.

That's my question. Why is everyone bidding Proskauer so high? It's like finding out that there is a waiting list to buy a Ford Focus.

They have very few interview slots. Also people are obsessed with the idea of one day working in sports or entertainment.

Also, for the less analytical among us (like me), I imagine once it got there, it kind of just kept reinforcing itself. See Proskauer at 1, think "Oh, better bid it 1."

[Anonymous User]

Potential bid list, GPA is 3.1X. I'm more interested in corporate work than litigation, but that's mostly because a lot of what I've done this summer has been transactional; I'm open to exploring both. I want to stay in NYC, but am unsure how to round out the bottom of my bid list (hence Wachtell and Simpson Thatcher being there even though I don't have any realistic chance of getting an offer from either). I've also been debating removing Debevoise after reading this thread, but last year's Offer by Honors still makes it a tantalizing choice. For what it's worth, I've been told on several occasions that I'm a great interviewer.

1. Proskauer Rose (1)
2. Paul Hastings (2)
3. Mayer Brown (5)
4. Hogan Lovells (6)
5. Debevoise (6)
6. White & Case (7)
7. Kaye Scholer (8)
8. clifford chance (9)
9. Allen & Overy (10)
10. Milbank (11)
11. Ropes & Gray (14)
12. Willkie, Farr & Gallagher (14)
13. Schulte, Roth & Zabel (15)
14. Cahill & Gordon (16)
15. Cadwalader (17)
16. Akin, Gump, Strauss & Feld (17)
17. Greenberg Traurig (18)
18. Fried Frank (19)
19. Kramer Levin (20)
20. Goodwin Procter (21)
21. K&L Gates (21)
22. Pillsbury Shaw (23)
23. Hughes, Hubbard & Reed (24)
24. Crowell & Moring (26)
25. Dechert (26)
26. Vinson & Elkins (26)
27. Perkins & Coie (27)
28. Wachtell (28)
29. Simpson Thatcher (30)
30. Hunton & Williams (*)

ETA: originally wrote "FFB" when I meant "Offer by Honors"

[Tiago Splitter]

^^ I think getting rid of Debevoise is a good idea. They're likely too grade selective and you're cutting it pretty close with a lot of firms below it.

[Anonymous User]

Am I missing something or is it almost guaranteed that you can get 30 screeners if you bid all LA, considering hardly any firms even had a FFB last year? The lowest one is like MoFo at 8. Seems easy right or am I miscalculating?

[Anonymous User]

You're right about LA screeners, but you should look at how many offers LA firms gave out all together. I believe it's less than 10.

[Anonymous User]

I think total offers were around 43 but point taken.

[Anonymous User]

I see 32 offers for LA, with 11 acceptances.

[Anonymous User]

Hmm weird. I recounted and got 43 again (not that it matters but I'm curious now lol). Are you looking at the 2014 EIP results list?

[Anonymous User]

Yup you're right it's 43.

[Anonymous User]

Similar grades to the list above, and similar bidding. I was told by career services to remove Ropes & Grey since they have ggenerally been quite selective (ignoring last year's big dip). It gets a bit tight as it gets to the bottom, so any advice about that would help.

1. Sidley Austin (2)
2. Paul Hastings (2)
3. Mayer Brown (5)
4. Hogan Lovells (6)
5. Clifford Chance (9)
6. Kaye Scholer (8)
7. Allen & Overy (10)
8. Milbank (11)
9. Willkie, Farr & Gallagher (14)
10. Schulte, Roth & Zabel (15)
11. Cahill & Gordon (16)
12. Cadwalader (17)
13. Greenberg Traurig (18)
14. Akin, Gump, Strauss & Feld (17)
15. Fried Frank (19)
16. K&L Gates (21)
17. Kramer Levin (20)
18. Goodwin Procter (21)
19. Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP (22)
20. Chadbourne and Park (22)
21. Pillsbury Shaw (23)
22. Hughes, Hubbard & Reed (24)
23. Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP (26)
24. Dechert (26)
25. Crowell & Moring (26)
26. Seward Kissel (27)
27. schiff hardin llp (29)
28. Brown Rudnick
29. Winston (*)
30. Shepard Mullin (*)

[Anonymous User]

Re: LA offers, keep in mind 43 offers from LA offices does not mean that 43 different CLS students got offers from LA offices. In all likelihood, a much smaller group of people got all of them, since strong candidates tend to receive multiple offers. I wouldn't be surprised if as few as 15 CLS students received offers from LA offices.

[Anonymous User]

Updated list, 3.3+

1. Proskauer Rose (1)
2. Kirkland & Ellis (2)
3. Mayer Brown (5)
4. Debevoise & Plimpton (6)
5. Hogan Lovells (6)
6. White & Case (7)
7. clifford chance (9)
8. Millbank Tweed (11)
9. Wilkie Farr (14)
10. Ropes & Gray (14)
11. Paul Weiss (14)
12. Schulte Roth (15)
13. Cahill Gordon (16)
14. Cadwalader (17)
15. Greenburg Traurig (18)
16. Fried Frank (19)
17. Covington & Burling (20)
18. K&L Gates (21)
19. Kramer Levin (20)
20. Goodwin Procter (21)
21. O’Melveny & Myers (22)
22. Pillsbury Winthrop (23)
23. Hughes Hubbard (24)
24. Dechert (26)
25. Kasowitz Benson (26)
26. Cravath (26)
27. Simpson Thatcher (30)
28. Simpson Thatcher (London) (29)
29. clifford chance (London) (30)
30. Skadden (London) (*)


Is Paul Weiss worth keeping? 66 total offers last year makes me think it's worth keeping just because of the sheer volume. Almost all honors though and removing it would give me a cushion for the firms below re: FFB...

Also, thoughts on #2? Kirkland, Sidley, Paul Hastings, Shearman all with FFB at #2

-four

[smaug]

I think folks are quite unlikely to be hired by PW w/o honors.

[almondjoy]

Since we have to upload our resumes before the end of the bidding process, we will find out about journals by then?

[papercut]

Since we have to upload our resumes before the end of the bidding process, we will find out about journals by then?

Journal offers go out on the 6th.

[almondjoy]

Since we have to upload our resumes before the end of the bidding process, we will find out about journals by then?

Journal offers go out on the 6th.

Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Okay, a little late but here's my first draft.
Interests: LA Corp > LA anything > NY Corp
GPA: 3.56
Really NY averse, and major LA ties, but thought I should have some big class size NY firms in there just in case. All offices are LA unless otherwise indicated. (the numbers are the FFB)

Thanks!


1. Shearman and Sterling (2) (NY)
2. Debevoise (6) (NY)
3. MoFo (8)
4. Gibson Dunn
5 Paul Hastings (13)
6. Jones Day (19)
7. Ropes & Gray (14) (NY)
8. Paul, Weiss (14) (NY)
9. Kirkland & Ellis (29)
10. Cadwalader (17) (NY)
11. Skadden (18)
12. Davis Polk (19) (NY)
13. Sheppard Mullin (21)
14. Sidley Austin (27)
15. Proskauer (28)
16. Manatt (29)
17. Latham (LA)
18 Simpson Thacher
19. Baker & Hostetler
20. Sullivan & Cromwell
21. White & Case
22. WilmerHale
23. Cooley
24. K & L Gates
25. DLA Piper
26. Foley & Lardner
27. Akin Gump
28. Hogan Lovells
29. Mayer Brown
30. Perkins Coie

ETA: -jumbojack

[Anonymous User]

So I've got a fairly horrid 1L record here: 1st semester B,B,B; 2nd semester: A-, B+, B, B. Cumulative GPA: 3.15. I really need to know if my list is sane. I pretty much included every single less grade-conscious firm with a summer class size of >10 but OCS still wants me to include some firms that has low Stone percentage but only extended less than 5 offers, which I really don't feel safe doing. I've also included a few firms with Stone percentage hovering around 75% just because they have really large summer classes plus I really don't know what better choices I have to replace them. Tell me if I pretty much have no shot there and what firms would be good candidates to replace them. K-JD. Solid interviewer. Pretty good UG --- not that I imagine it would make any difference. All NY offices.

1. (1) Kirkland & Ellis (2) 32 41%
2. (0) Sidley Austin (2) 14 8%
3. (-1)Paul Hastings (2) 15 21%
4. (2) Debevoise (6) 39 50%
5. (4) Clifford Chance (9) 13 29%
6. (5) Milbank (11) 30 29%
7. (5) Morrison & Forester (12) 5 20%
8. (6) Ropes & Gray (14) 33 48%
9. (5) Wilkie (14) 31 20%
10. (5) Schulte (15) 36 26%
11. (6) Calwalader (17) 15 15%
12. (4) Cahill (16) 10 40%
13. (4) Cleary (17) 42 78%
14. (5) Davis Polk (19) 48 76%
15. (4) Fried Frank (19) 11 10%
16. (4) Kramer Levin (20) 9 25%
17. (4) Goodwin Procter (21) 7 14%
18. (3) K&L Gates (21) 14 9%
19. (3) Orrick (22) 5 0%
20. (3) Pillsbury (23) 8 25%
21. (5) Dechert (26) 13 0%
22. (4) Crowell & Moring 1 0% (26)
23. (7) Simpson Thatcher (30) 55 87%
24. (0) Hughes Hubbard (24) 7 14%
25. (1) Vinson & Elkins (26) 2 0%
26. (-) Winston Strawn (*) 4 0%
27. (-) Hunton & Williams (*) 5 0%
28. (-1) Dentons (27) 1 0%
29. (-) Katten (*) 4 33%
30. (-) Sheppard (*) 1 0%

[Tiago Splitter]

@JumboJack--I'd try to add a few more NYC firms like Willkie, Schulte, and Cahill. You will likely be able to add plenty of LA interviews during add/drop as you can see from the FFB numbers.

@3.15--Do you have ties to any markets outside of NYC? If so some of those late bids might be more useful if used on a local market. I don't see any reason to interview with Cleary or DPW but I'm not who'd be left as a replacement. Overall you seem to have done what you can, just make sure to keep adding interviews before and during EIP.

[jbagelboy]

So I've got a fairly horrid 1L record here: 1st semester B,B,B; 2nd semester: A-, B+, B, B. Cumulative GPA: 3.15. I really need to know if my list is sane. I pretty much included every single less grade-conscious firm with a summer class size of >10 but OCS still wants me to include some firms that has low Stone percentage but only extended less than 5 offers, which I really don't feel safe doing. I've also included a few firms with Stone percentage hovering around 75% just because they have really large summer classes plus I really don't know what better choices I have to replace them. Tell me if I pretty much have no shot there and what firms would be good candidates to replace them. K-JD. Solid interviewer. Pretty good UG --- not that I imagine it would make any difference. All NY offices.

1. (1) Kirkland & Ellis (2) 32 41%
2. (0) Sidley Austin (2) 14 8%
3. (-1)Paul Hastings (2) 15 21%
4. (2) Debevoise (6) 39 50%
5. (4) Clifford Chance (9) 13 29%
6. (5) Milbank (11) 30 29%
7. (5) Morrison & Forester (12) 5 20%
8. (6) Ropes & Gray (14) 33 48%
9. (5) Wilkie (14) 31 20%
10. (5) Schulte (15) 36 26%
11. (6) Calwalader (17) 15 15%
12. (4) Cahill (16) 10 40%
13. (4) Cleary (17) 42 78%
14. (5) Davis Polk (19) 48 76%
15. (4) Fried Frank (19) 11 10%
16. (4) Kramer Levin (20) 9 25%
17. (4) Goodwin Procter (21) 7 14%
18. (3) K&L Gates (21) 14 9%
19. (3) Orrick (22) 5 0%
20. (3) Pillsbury (23) 8 25%
21. (5) Dechert (26) 13 0%
22. (4) Crowell & Moring 1 0% (26)
23. (7) Simpson Thatcher (30) 55 87%
24. (0) Hughes Hubbard (24) 7 14%
25. (1) Vinson & Elkins (26) 2 0%
26. (-) Winston Strawn (*) 4 0%
27. (-) Hunton & Williams (*) 5 0%
28. (-1) Dentons (27) 1 0%
29. (-) Katten (*) 4 33%
30. (-) Sheppard (*) 1 0%

Harsh truth: frankly, there's just essentially zero chance you'll land a callback with Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, or even Debevoise. There are better firms to bid for these spots. The honors % for this year are very deceptive for some of these firms. Davis Polk has been over 95% the past couple years, and Simpson/Cleary/Debevoise are always 85%+ honors. If you were at median or just barely missed stone they would be worth bidding. But at 3.15 there are better choices where you can actually get CBs/offers to fill these spots.