Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

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bloodorangedeer
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Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby bloodorangedeer » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:07 pm

While I *think* I'm interested in doing transactional work, I wanted to see if anyone had experience in Antitrust/White Collar & Government Investigation/Appellate work and wouldn't mind offering some advice/insights. In specific, I'd love to get some perspective on their scope and expanse in various markets. Some questions I had -

1. Does Antitrust/WCGI/Apellate form independent practice groups in top firms or are they housed under litigation?
2. Do 1st year SA's (at the top firms) bid for litigation and get a few cases in these practices areas, or can you indicate in interviews you'd like to work in X group and then get placed in that group itself?
3. How big do White Collar & Government Inv. practice groups get? Are there viable opportunities for mobility by staying in firm, or do you have to do a prolonged (and successful) stint in the BigFed to get to upper management?
4. For all three groups, is there a particular city that excels, or does each city/region specialize in certain aspects? DC seems like a natural landing spot for a lot of this work, but I have no clue and am talking out my ass when I say that.

Sorry for all the qs - I've been looking around here and didn't see these specific issues exactly spoken to and figured there might be other rising 2Ls trying to figure it out before bidding, etc. As with all TLS questions, I realize so much of this is inexact and cloying. Still, thanks.
Last edited by bloodorangedeer on Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MurdockLLP
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby MurdockLLP » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:18 pm

bloodorangedeer wrote:While I *think* I'm interesting in doing transactional work, I wanted to see if anyone had experience in Antitrust/White Collar & Government Investigation/Appellate work and wouldn't mind offering some advice/insights. In specific, I'd love to get some perspective on their scope and expanse in various markets. Some questions I had -

1. Does Antitrust/WCGI/Apellate form independent practice groups in top firms or are they housed under litigation?
2. Do 1st year SA's (at the top firms) bid for litigation and get a few cases in these practices areas, or can you indicate in interviews you'd like to work in X group and then get placed in that group itself?
3. How big do White Collar & Government Inv. practice groups get? Are there viable opportunities for mobility by staying in firm, or do you have to do a prolonged (and successful) stint in the BigFed to get to upper management?
4. For all three groups, is there a particular city that excels, or does each city/region specialize in certain aspects? DC seems like a natural landing spot for a lot of this work, but I have no clue and am talking out my ass when I say that.

Sorry for all the qs - I've been looking around here and didn't see these specific issues exactly spoken to and figured there might be other rising 2Ls trying to figure it out before bidding, etc. As with all TLS questions, I realize so much of this is inexact and cloying. Still, thanks.


+1. Interested in this as well.

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xael
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby xael » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:55 pm

tag

in general though I think most people will say to remove "appellate" from your lexicon

Anonymous User
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:31 pm

I can answer some of this. I did a summer in antitrust at the DOJ, and am doing some work in it at the firm this summer.

1. Does Antitrust/WCGI/Apellate form independent practice groups in top firms or are they housed under litigation?

This varies by firm, usually based on what the antitrust group does. Wachtell and Skadden's antitrust practices will be focused on merger clearance, making it more of a corporate subgroup. For many others, it's litigation oriented (Wilmer, Cleary, even Simpson, etc.). If any firm does criminal antitrust, it'll obviously be litigation oriented.

2. Do 1st year SA's (at the top firms) bid for litigation and get a few cases in these practices areas, or can you indicate in interviews you'd like to work in X group and then get placed in that group itself?

When you say "1st year SA," do you mean 1L SA or 2L SA? But it won't matter whichever one you meant - this is just firm dependent. Most firms will let you sample work from a few different groups, though. Appellate's going to be weirder.

3. How big do White Collar & Government Inv. practice groups get? Are there viable opportunities for mobility by staying in firm, or do you have to do a prolonged (and successful) stint in the BigFed to get to upper management?

They get huge. Have you read about the LIBOR and FX investigations recently? It's basically a manpower event, churning through documents with loads of attorneys. Siemens, in an FCPA scandal, drew over $1B in legal fees.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/ ... tigations/

It gets a lot different with investigations at the individual level.

4. For all three groups, is there a particular city that excels, or does each city/region specialize in certain aspects? DC seems like a natural landing spot for a lot of this work, but I have no clue and am talking out my ass when I say that.

Well, you're right for most antitrust things. At least they're more likely to have a good practice there. For white collar work, it's spread out all over, and Paul Weiss and Debevoise in NY (for example, not limiting it to those two by any means) do great things. Appellate exists all around but a lot of the best appellate litigators will be concentrated in DC offices.

Hope that helps a little bit.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:46 am

Antitrust, white collar, and appellate are three incredibly disparate practice areas. You're right that DC is the center of gravity for work in all three, although there are plenty of NYC opportunities too, particularly with white collar work.

Anonymous User
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:06 am

NYC biglaw associate here

1) Antitrust in our firm is housed under litigation although there is a mix of litigation/transactional work (I call it transactional but it is really more regulatory- filing stuff with the relevant regulators and negotiating remedies). Partners/associates play both the transactional or litigation roles although we have partners who do more "deal work" and others who will do more straight litigation. Litigation may involve defending your client from suits trying to block the deal, representing a client in an attempt to block another deal or challenge anticompetitive practices, responding to subpoenas/document requests in other massive antitrust suits, etc.

2) White collar consists of two worlds right now (a) FCPA, (b) everything else. FCPA work is a massive moneymaker right now for firms that do it but involves a ton of doc review for junior people, although if an investigation is just beginning you might get to travel to some interesting places to interview people as part of the company's internal investigation. This work is DC-centric, though.

In NYC, insider trading work is always hot. White collar involves a lot of third-party work, for example, representing the directors and officers of a company being investigated by the government while another firm reps the company, or responding to a third-party subpoena from the SEC/DOJ on someone your client dealt with (which will of course mean more documents, always with the documents).

3) As for appellate, my firm doesn't have a separate group nor does it really make much sense for us to have one. In most areas of law, all the appellate claims are fleshed out at the trial court level on whatever motion you are arguing, so it makes very little sense to bring in an appellate specialist to rebuild a brief that perfectly competent lawyers who actually understand the facts and who practice full-time in that area have already written. Read the motion for summary judgment next to the intermediate appellate court brief filed by big firms- 90% of the brief will be basically the same ideas maybe even in the same language. I guess the only area having dedicated appellate lawyers might help is on appeals from administrative agencies, where practice before the agency is so particularized that the team that did the initial brief might benefit from some assistance from people who can step back and see the broader picture at the appellate level.

Anonymous User
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:14 am

Antitrust associate here.

1. It depends. Antitrust covers both transactional work and litigation. Some antitrust groups are strong in both areas, while others tend to focus on one or the other. So at some firms the antitrust group will fall under the corporate or litigation departments, and at other firms it will be an independent group.

2. It varies wildly by firm. Firms use different processes for assigning associates to practice groups.

4. DC is the center for antitrust, because the agencies are located there. There are a lot of antitrust litigators in other primary markets though, especially in SF, where a lot of the cartel work is handled.

I'd also note that you should probably forget about appellate for now. It's a narrow practice area dominated by attorneys with SCOTUS and other top clerkships and SG experience. If later you're in the position to apply for appellate practices, or you're able to build a relationship with an appellate specialist once at your firm, then great, but I wouldn't focus on appellate as a law student.

Anonymous User
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:36 pm

When I've searched "antitrust" in NALP I don't come up with much. I'm assuming this is because it's folded under corp or lit, right? If so, how do we know which firms do antitrust, or does that mean that all firms do?

Sorry if that's a dumb question. Basically trying to avoid "I really enjoyed my antitrust class" and being followed by "we don't do that in this office."

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:When I've searched "antitrust" in NALP I don't come up with much. I'm assuming this is because it's folded under corp or lit, right? If so, how do we know which firms do antitrust, or does that mean that all firms do?

Sorry if that's a dumb question. Basically trying to avoid "I really enjoyed my antitrust class" and being followed by "we don't do that in this office."

Try this.

Anonymous User
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:02 pm

Antitrust associate again. Chambers & Partners (posted above) is probably the best source. Look at both the national and regional rankings. If a firm is unranked on both levels it probably doesn't have a large antitrust group. Global Competition Review is another good source, though I'm not sure you'd have access to the regional rankings. Also look at the firms' websites to make sure their antitrust attorneys are in the right office.

In general I think the rankings present an accurate picture of who the top players are (Cleary, A&P, etc.), but are less meaningful in the mid and lower ranks, though the ranked firms generally have stronger antitrust practices than the unranked firms.

Anonymous User
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:17 pm

I'm finding some firms on Chambers (for example--Washington [state]-->litigation) that aren't listed on the antitrust list, but (under the lit area, not the firm bio) do say that they are known for their antitrust work (for example, Perkins)....what do I make of that?

Seriously sorry that these are really dumb questions.

Anonymous User
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Global Competition Review is another good source, though I'm not sure you'd have access to the regional rankings.


Here's the GCR global elite for antitrust: http://globalcompetitionreview.com/gcr100

1. Freshfields
2. Cleary
3. Linklaters
4. Jones Day
5. Baker & McKenzie
6. Gibson Dunn
7. White & Case
8. Latham & Watkins
9. Allen & Overy
10. Hogan Lovells
11. Skadden
12. Wilson Sonsini
13. Norton Rose Fulbright
14. Wilmer
15. Clifford Chance


Here is the GCR Washington DC ranking: https://www.wsgr.com/news/PDFs/GCR-0415.pdf

Elite:
-Cleary
-Covington
-Jones Day
-Latham & Wakins

Outstanding:
-Arnold & Porter
-Baker Botts
-Dechert
-Gibson Dunn
-Hogan Lovells
-O'Melveny & [deleted]
-Simpson Thacher
-Skadden
-Weil
-Wilmer
-Wilson Sonsini


The Legal 500 List is helpful as well:
http://www.legal500.com/c/united-states ... t/overview
Separates firms into cartel work, class actions/litigation, and merger review.

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parkslope
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Re: Antitrust/WCGI/Appellate Career Path

Postby parkslope » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Global Competition Review is another good source, though I'm not sure you'd have access to the regional rankings.


Here's the GCR global elite for antitrust: http://globalcompetitionreview.com/gcr100

1. Freshfields
2. Cleary
3. Linklaters
4. Jones Day
5. Baker & McKenzie
6. Gibson Dunn
7. White & Case
8. Latham & Watkins
9. Allen & Overy
10. Hogan Lovells
11. Skadden
12. Wilson Sonsini
13. Norton Rose Fulbright
14. Wilmer
15. Clifford Chance


Here is the GCR Washington DC ranking: https://www.wsgr.com/news/PDFs/GCR-0415.pdf

Elite:
-Cleary
-Covington
-Jones Day
-Latham & Wakins

Outstanding:
-Arnold & Porter
-Baker Botts
-Dechert
-Gibson Dunn
-Hogan Lovells
-O'Melveny & [deleted]
-Simpson Thacher
-Skadden
-Weil
-Wilmer
-Wilson Sonsini


The Legal 500 List is helpful as well:
http://www.legal500.com/c/united-states ... t/overview
Separates firms into cartel work, class actions/litigation, and merger review.


One thing to keep in mind is that some NY firms (DPW, S&C, Cravath, STB) keep their antitrust practices almost entirely in NY, some keep it all in DC (Cleary, Latham) and some split their practice between NY and DC (Weil, Skadden). I'm not sure how much of a material difference it makes doing antitrust work in DC versus NY, because NY attorneys come down to DC all the time.




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