Boalt OCI 2015 (C/O 2017) Forum

[Anonymous User]

ITT we strategize and commiserate about OCI/EIW. Borrowing the following from another thread.

Here are the rules and some tips from last year:

I. Anonymous Handles

We all want to maintain some privacy during this process. That said, it is also nice to keep track of who is saying what. I recommend that everyone pick a handle with which to sign her anonymous posts (although you obviously don’t have to) so that we can keep track of one another.

II. Grades

Again, these are pretty much hand waving generalizations given lack/volatility of data.

For Top 20% probably 3 HHs and 4 Hs, for top 1/3 somewhat less stellar grades. With 7 grades, dumb luck would probably get you an H to be around median.

A broader note: Our actual rankings (for Order of the Coif / clerkships / academia etc.) are calculated using weighted GPA, and for that it matters what class you got the grades in credit wise.

No, this is way off. Though it depends on the number of credits in each class, 3 HHs and 4Hs would be more like top 5%. I know for a fact that 2 HHs, 4Hs, and 1P is top 10% after 1L (P not WOA). I know this because as a 2L the registrar will tell you your approximate class rank for clerkship application purposes.

I've commonly heard that a 3.0 on the order of the coif scale (HH = 5, H = 3, P = 2) after 1L is roughly top 25%. That's an H average.

Given the above, and excluding WOA, that roughly works out to:

8Hs = Top 10%
6Hs = Top 25%
5Hs = Top 33%
3-4Hs = Median
2Hs = Bottom 33%
Straight P = Bottom 25%

III. Bidding

The basics of bidlist stuff should be straightforward even if you’re not Socrates: if you think other people are more likely to bid on a firm, you should bid it high. Firms that are less grade-selective or that have fewer interview spots are more competitive, so you should probably rank them higher. Don’t rank a firm high just because you want it, but if you really want a particular firm it might be good to rank it high for your peace of mind. The EIP Failed Bid Report helps with this, although relying too heavily on it could be a mistake (or so I've heard). Finally, spreading bids out between multiple markets increases the risk of striking out, especially if you don't have strong ties to those markets. We’ve all seen the data: there are just more jobs in New York, so NY is a solid backup for folks who are trying to head to California, Chicago, DC, etc.

IV. Callbacks

Once we’re at least part-way through the first rings of interviewing hell, people will get callbacks. In past years, people would post the firm name and the initials of the person who interviewed them when they received a callback so that people would know that callbacks had gone out.

Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3Ls and alumn, feel free to share any insight you may have about the process.

-Professor X

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any idea what kind of grade distribution is needed to make it worth it to bid SF?

[Anonymous User]

Nice, checking in. Likely below median here, so I'm a little worried about Bay Area bidding. I hear 3 or 4 Hs makes bidding SF within reach.

[Anonymous User]

Regarding grades:

Again, these are pretty much hand waving generalizations given lack/volatility of data.

For Top 20% probably 3 HHs and 4 Hs, for top 1/3 somewhat less stellar grades. With 7 grades, dumb luck would probably get you an H to be around median.

A broader note: Our actual rankings (for Order of the Coif / clerkships / academia etc.) are calculated using weighted GPA, and for that it matters what class you got the grades in credit wise.

No, this is way off. Though it depends on the number of credits in each class, 3 HHs and 4Hs would be more like top 5%. I know for a fact that 2 HHs, 4Hs, and 1P is top 10% after 1L (P not WOA). I know this because as a 2L the registrar will tell you your approximate class rank for clerkship application purposes.

I've commonly heard that a 3.0 on the order of the coif scale (HH = 5, H = 3, P = 2) after 1L is roughly top 25%. That's an H average.

Given the above, and excluding WOA, that roughly works out to:

8Hs = Top 10%
6Hs = Top 25%
5Hs = Top 33%
3-4Hs = Median
2Hs = Bottom 33%
Straight P = Bottom 25%

[Anonymous User]

Nice, checking in. Likely below median here, so I'm a little worried about Bay Area bidding. I hear 3 or 4 Hs makes bidding SF within reach.

Bolded sounds about right. I also know of some rising 3Ls who got SF with 2Hs + CLR.

-Professor X

[Anonymous User]

Nice, checking in. Likely below median here, so I'm a little worried about Bay Area bidding. I hear 3 or 4 Hs makes bidding SF within reach.

Bolded sounds about right. I also know of some rising 3Ls who got SF with 2Hs + CLR.

Alright, for someone with 5 Hs, what firms should we be looking at in SF? Alums, 3Ls, SF associates please chime in. Hopefully the CDO gets more information for us soon.

[Anonymous User]

Nice, checking in. Likely below median here, so I'm a little worried about Bay Area bidding. I hear 3 or 4 Hs makes bidding SF within reach.

Bolded sounds about right. I also know of some rising 3Ls who got SF with 2Hs + CLR.

Alright, for someone with 5 Hs, what firms should we be looking at in SF? Alums, 3Ls, SF associates please chime in. Hopefully the CDO gets more information for us soon.

I think most of them will be at play for you. Consider making a bid list now then posting it here and hopefully others can give you more substantive feedback. I wouldn't expect much help from CDO at this point. If you do decide to reach out to CDO, Terry is the most knowledgeable imo.

-Prof X

[Anonymous User]

Does CDO ever tell us what the lowest successful bid slot for each firm was the year before? That would be so helpful in putting together a bid list.

- Kiwi

[Anonymous User]

Does CDO ever tell us what the lowest successful bid slot for each firm was the year before? That would be so helpful in putting together a bid list.

- Kiwi

Not that I'm aware of. Also, I don't think CDO keeps track of that sort of thing. The gradebook they keep is mostly useless as well.

-Prof X

[Anonymous User]

Recent alum here. Best advice is that you all stop obsessing about your grades. Seriously. First, because what's done is done and you can't change them now. Put all that Type-A OCD neuroticism in to things you can control, like being prepared and knowing how to interview. Second, because it matters a lot less than you think it does. I do not mean this in some lovey-dovey way, but your entire class will treat it like it's the one make or break factor, and this is misguided. Don't be surprised if some firms turn you down for your grades. But don't count yourself out either. I don't know if some interviewers just don't care, or don't bother to figure out what our grades mean, treat Boalt differently because we are hippies, or what it is, but I can tell countless stories about the braggards with the best grades striking out, and good people with passable grades cleaning up. I know people with straight Ps in 1L going to great firms. Not going to lie to you, I also know people who struck out. But this should tell you it's about more than your transcript. Same goes for CLR for the record. There was a horrible mistake in 2013 where a handful of folks who made it on to CLR were accidentally told they didn't make it on, and weren't notified until a month after OCI. They all did fine.

Info that might be of interest to you: I had about an even split of Hs/Ps in 1L. I interviewed in CA and NY. I had something like 9 callbacks and 7 total offers, split in both cities. If you care (and you shouldn't but you will), the national Vault rankings of the firms were in the ballpark of 5-50, local rankings higher. At least 2-3 of them were notoriously high "grade cutoff" firms (that cut off somewhere atmospherically high above my 1L transcript). My resume has some "soft" bumps, but my daddy doesn't know anybody and I didn't graduate magna from an Ivy or anything like that. CDO told me I wouldn't have even the longest shot at most of them. On that note, my second most important piece of advice -- if something CDO tells you goes against your gut and/or tells you not even to bother, don't listen to them. Listen to Eric if you intend to clerk. But on the OCI stuff, ignore all but the common sense advice.

Finally, and this should all go without saying: be good to your classmates. Do not hype your callbacks. Don't take the calls in the boiler room. Don't ask people if they've gotten anything yet. Don't cut other people off or put them down in conversations in hospitality suites/at mixers. DO hype your classmates in those conversations and interviews and do your best to not treat this like a competition between you and them. People will remember you for the way you behave at these things, more so than the interactions you've had for the last year.

[Anonymous User]

Please critique my bid list. I just have the top 15 spots so far, and I'm planning on adding more SF/LA firms and possibly NY? Really hoping for SF, but would also be happy with LA. I'm pretty clueless as far as how to rank the firms to maximize interviews, so any advice on that is greatly appreciated! Please also tell me if any of the firms are out of my league or if I should have different firms in the first 15 spots. Thanks!

I have 6 Hs. No IP and not URM.

1. MoFo SF
2. Arnold Porter SF
3. O’Melveny SF
4. Paul Hastings SF
5. Kirkland SF
6. Gibson Dunn SF
7. Sidley Austin
8. Cooley SF
9. Orrick SF
10. Latham SF
11. Kirkland LA
12. Farella SF
13. Dechert LA
14. Goodwin Procter LA
15. Goodwin Procter SF

[solucky]

Regarding grades:

Again, these are pretty much hand waving generalizations given lack/volatility of data.

For Top 20% probably 3 HHs and 4 Hs, for top 1/3 somewhat less stellar grades. With 7 grades, dumb luck would probably get you an H to be around median.

A broader note: Our actual rankings (for Order of the Coif / clerkships / academia etc.) are calculated using weighted GPA, and for that it matters what class you got the grades in credit wise.

No, this is way off. Though it depends on the number of credits in each class, 3 HHs and 4Hs would be more like top 5%. I know for a fact that 2 HHs, 4Hs, and 1P is top 10% after 1L (P not WOA). I know this because as a 2L the registrar will tell you your approximate class rank for clerkship application purposes.

I've commonly heard that a 3.0 on the order of the coif scale (HH = 5, H = 3, P = 2) after 1L is roughly top 25%. That's an H average.

Given the above, and excluding WOA, that roughly works out to:

8Hs = Top 10%
6Hs = Top 25%
5Hs = Top 33%
3-4Hs = Median
2Hs = Bottom 33%
Straight P = Bottom 25%

I apologize if the answer to this q is obvious, but are we counting HH's as two H's here?

[Anonymous User]

CLR is making calls

[Anonymous User]

Please critique my bid list. I just have the top 15 spots so far, and I'm planning on adding more SF/LA firms and possibly NY? Really hoping for SF, but would also be happy with LA. I'm pretty clueless as far as how to rank the firms to maximize interviews, so any advice on that is greatly appreciated! Please also tell me if any of the firms are out of my league or if I should have different firms in the first 15 spots. Thanks!

I have 6 Hs. No IP and not URM.

1. MoFo SF
2. Arnold Porter SF
3. O’Melveny SF
4. Paul Hastings SF
5. Kirkland SF
6. Gibson Dunn SF
7. Sidley Austin
8. Cooley SF
9. Orrick SF
10. Latham SF
11. Kirkland LA
12. Farella SF
13. Dechert LA
14. Goodwin Procter LA
15. Goodwin Procter SF

Not a bad list all in all. You should definitely get some offers with these and other firms added to the list, though you might want to add some of the larger SV firms like WSGR, Cooley, et al since they have bigger classes. Bidding heavily on SF can be risky since the class sizes are small and the competition is pretty fierce. Still, I think you're safe so long as you're an average interviewer.

The only firms that might be a tad too grade selective would be A&P and Gibson Dunn. IIRC, A&P is extremely selective in SF and Gibson is as well. I actually think the Gibson office in LA is slightly less selective due to its size and might give you a better chance (though it's still very selective). I'd probably cross off A&P but bid on the Gibson office you want most, aiming for LA if you're more or less indifferent.

[Anonymous User]

Recent alum here. Best advice is that you all stop obsessing about your grades. Seriously. First, because what's done is done and you can't change them now. Put all that Type-A OCD neuroticism in to things you can control, like being prepared and knowing how to interview. Second, because it matters a lot less than you think it does. I do not mean this in some lovey-dovey way, but your entire class will treat it like it's the one make or break factor, and this is misguided. Don't be surprised if some firms turn you down for your grades. But don't count yourself out either. I don't know if some interviewers just don't care, or don't bother to figure out what our grades mean, treat Boalt differently because we are hippies, or what it is, but I can tell countless stories about the braggards with the best grades striking out, and good people with passable grades cleaning up. I know people with straight Ps in 1L going to great firms. Not going to lie to you, I also know people who struck out. But this should tell you it's about more than your transcript. Same goes for CLR for the record. There was a horrible mistake in 2013 where a handful of folks who made it on to CLR were accidentally told they didn't make it on, and weren't notified until a month after OCI. They all did fine.

Info that might be of interest to you: I had about an even split of Hs/Ps in 1L. I interviewed in CA and NY. I had something like 9 callbacks and 7 total offers, split in both cities. If you care (and you shouldn't but you will), the national Vault rankings of the firms were in the ballpark of 5-50, local rankings higher. At least 2-3 of them were notoriously high "grade cutoff" firms (that cut off somewhere atmospherically high above my 1L transcript). My resume has some "soft" bumps, but my daddy doesn't know anybody and I didn't graduate magna from an Ivy or anything like that. CDO told me I wouldn't have even the longest shot at most of them. On that note, my second most important piece of advice -- if something CDO tells you goes against your gut and/or tells you not even to bother, don't listen to them. Listen to Eric if you intend to clerk. But on the OCI stuff, ignore all but the common sense advice.

Finally, and this should all go without saying: be good to your classmates. Do not hype your callbacks. Don't take the calls in the boiler room. Don't ask people if they've gotten anything yet. Don't cut other people off or put them down in conversations in hospitality suites/at mixers. DO hype your classmates in those conversations and interviews and do your best to not treat this like a competition between you and them. People will remember you for the way you behave at these things, more so than the interactions you've had for the last year.

I mostly agree with the last paragraph, but some of the stuff you said in the beginning is just flat wrong. Certain firms (e.g. S&C, Gibson Dunn, Munger, Keker, Boies Schiller, Covington, Wachtell, et al) do not give a shit how good of an interviewer you are if your grades are just "passable." If you have 3-4 Hs and bid any of these firms you literally have no chance of a call back. No chance.

Are there some firms that will be flexible if you don't quite meet their grade cutoffs? Sure. But telling someone with below-average grades that it's OK to bid on grade-selective firms is just a recipe for disaster.

[Anonymous User]

Recent alum here. Best advice is that you all stop obsessing about your grades. Seriously. First, because what's done is done and you can't change them now. Put all that Type-A OCD neuroticism in to things you can control, like being prepared and knowing how to interview. Second, because it matters a lot less than you think it does. I do not mean this in some lovey-dovey way, but your entire class will treat it like it's the one make or break factor, and this is misguided. Don't be surprised if some firms turn you down for your grades. But don't count yourself out either. I don't know if some interviewers just don't care, or don't bother to figure out what our grades mean, treat Boalt differently because we are hippies, or what it is, but I can tell countless stories about the braggards with the best grades striking out, and good people with passable grades cleaning up. I know people with straight Ps in 1L going to great firms. Not going to lie to you, I also know people who struck out. But this should tell you it's about more than your transcript. Same goes for CLR for the record. There was a horrible mistake in 2013 where a handful of folks who made it on to CLR were accidentally told they didn't make it on, and weren't notified until a month after OCI. They all did fine.

Info that might be of interest to you: I had about an even split of Hs/Ps in 1L. I interviewed in CA and NY. I had something like 9 callbacks and 7 total offers, split in both cities. If you care (and you shouldn't but you will), the national Vault rankings of the firms were in the ballpark of 5-50, local rankings higher. At least 2-3 of them were notoriously high "grade cutoff" firms (that cut off somewhere atmospherically high above my 1L transcript). My resume has some "soft" bumps, but my daddy doesn't know anybody and I didn't graduate magna from an Ivy or anything like that. CDO told me I wouldn't have even the longest shot at most of them. On that note, my second most important piece of advice -- if something CDO tells you goes against your gut and/or tells you not even to bother, don't listen to them. Listen to Eric if you intend to clerk. But on the OCI stuff, ignore all but the common sense advice.

Finally, and this should all go without saying: be good to your classmates. Do not hype your callbacks. Don't take the calls in the boiler room. Don't ask people if they've gotten anything yet. Don't cut other people off or put them down in conversations in hospitality suites/at mixers. DO hype your classmates in those conversations and interviews and do your best to not treat this like a competition between you and them. People will remember you for the way you behave at these things, more so than the interactions you've had for the last year.

I mostly agree with the last paragraph, but some of the stuff you said in the beginning is just flat wrong. Certain firms (e.g. S&C, Gibson Dunn, Munger, Keker, Boies Schiller, Covington, Wachtell, et al) do not give a shit how good of an interviewer you are if your grades are just "passable." If you have 3-4 Hs and bid any of these firms you literally have no chance of a call back. No chance.

Are there some firms that will be flexible if you don't quite meet their grade cutoffs? Sure. But telling someone with below-average grades that it's OK to bid on grade-selective firms is just a recipe for disaster.

Take it easy, man. You quoted some of the most grade-selective firms to dismiss what he was suggesting. Of course Wachtell or Gibson Dunn will likely not offer someone with median-ish grades. I'm sure the original anon would agree. He's just saying not to obsess over grades, which you may have missed.

[Anonymous User]

I mostly agree with the last paragraph, but some of the stuff you said in the beginning is just flat wrong. Certain firms (e.g. S&C, Gibson Dunn, Munger, Keker, Boies Schiller, Covington, Wachtell, et al) do not give a shit how good of an interviewer you are if your grades are just "passable." If you have 3-4 Hs and bid any of these firms you literally have no chance of a call back. No chance.

Are there some firms that will be flexible if you don't quite meet their grade cutoffs? Sure. But telling someone with below-average grades that it's OK to bid on grade-selective firms is just a recipe for disaster.

A+ reading comprehension

[Anonymous User]

I don't think Nut and Boalts will be doing an OCI post this year. So lets do updates here.

RULES

1. We will take comments posted below regarding offers/rejections and incorporate them into the body of this post. The process is tedious and generally not fun. There's a lot you can do to expedite things along.

2. PLEASE READ THE BODY OF THIS POST AND THE LAST FEW COMMENTS POSTS TO SEE IF ANYONE HAS POSTED THE SAME OFFER/REJECTION THAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO POST.

3. SEE NUMBER 2.

4. Post the offers/rejections in the following format:

Firm name, Office, +/- to indicate offer/rejection respectively. For example:

Orrick, SF +.

The location abbreviations are as follows:
Atl -- Atlanta; Bos -- Boston; Chi -- Chicago; Dal -- Dallas; DC -- DC; EBay -- East Bay locations (Oakland, Walnut Creek, etc.); LA -- LA area offices (includes Century City); Mia = Miami and South Florida; Minn -- Minnesota; NY -- New York/New Jersey; OC -- Orange County area offices; Por -- Portland; Sac -- Sacramento; SD -- San Diego; SF -- San Francisco; SV -- Silicon Valley offices (includes Palo Alto, San Jose, Menlo Park, and all other South Bay locations).

[Anonymous User]

Davis Polk, NY +

[codeandcodes]

Hi Boalties! I'm a 2012 SLS alum and just want to send a friendly reminder that you can put this info into http://www.biglawrefuge.com. If you haven't heard of it yet, it's a platform for sharing anonymous job statistics with your classmates. Help your fellow classmates out and encourage others to share! You can also add interview with your job applications (like on campus interview, callback, etc), so you can share that information as well.

Good luck everyone on OCI and congrats to those with callbacks/cb dinners.

[Anonymous User]

Dechert, NY -

[Anonymous User]

Ropes & Gray, SV +
Irell & Manella, LA -

[Anonymous User]

Sidley LA +
Skadden NY +/-
Proskeur NY -
Gunderson SV +

[Anonymous User]

Cravath NY -
Paul Weiss NY -