Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

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Nelson
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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Nelson » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
ymmv wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How serious are firms about these grade stipulations? Seeing a lot of mediocre firms throwing out top 15% like it's candy.


Ignore that completely. Look at the actual grade breakdown for Penn students bidding last year.


To some extent those numbers (the pie charts) will be inflated as well. First, the charts reflect the last three years. Firms seem to be casting a wider and wider net over the last three years. This probably doesn't inflate the numbers by much though. Second, the chart reflects offers, not acceptances. Thus, the grades of people who were offered/accepted at the most selective firms are represented. This probably causes a lot of inflation (especially around the lower ranks).

I took a brief look at the ABA numbers since 2010 to try to get an idea of just how successful Penn is at Biglaw (or 101+) insertion. Here are the results. Please know that I am aware that this is not completely indicative of OCI success (people get jobs outside OCI), but it is nonetheless very informative (I think).

% of Class @ 101-501+ (Not taking into account adjustments for clerks/academics/public interest people)
2010-58%
2011-58%
2012-65%
2013-56%
2014-70%
% of Class @ 101-501+ (Adjusting for clerks/academics/public interest people)
2010-70%
2011-69%
2012-77%
2013-67%
2014-84% (Whoa!) FYI, this # is 78% for 251-501+. Not bad.

I am looking for feedback. I realize that subtracting clerks/academics/PIs from the class size is subjective. I figure these people are capable of getting Biglaw but do not bother with the exception of some state court clerks who represent a small fraction of our clerkships (see the ABA clerk numbers for the last five years). Adjusting for the handful of state clerks wouldn't change the numbers all that much. For example, it would change the 84% (immediately above) to roughly 82% assuming 10% of clerks can't get Biglaw jobs.

Thoughts?

Pie charts are inflated because firms give out tons of offers to top of the class people who can all only take one offer. The charts are only meaningful to give you the gist of the firm vs other firms; they are not indicative of what it takes to get an offer or even the profile of the average candidate who gets an offer at that firm.

Good luck all. You'll be fine. Try to be nice to each other and be conscientious that not everyone's experience is the same.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:41 pm

Good luck all. You'll be fine. Try to be nice to each other and be conscientious that not everyone's experience is the same.

So much this.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:32 pm

Hi all,

Wondering if people have advice re bid list building.

Grades were disappointing: B+, B+, B, B, B, B, LPS-H, and still waiting on one spring grade.

Comes out to ~3.07 GPA.

Interested only in New York, leaning strongly lit, but wouldn't mind splitting between corp/lit at a firm.

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

Thanks guys, and best of luck to everyone!

UpandDown97
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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby UpandDown97 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all,

Wondering if people have advice re bid list building.

Grades were disappointing: B+, B+, B, B, B, B, LPS-H, and still waiting on one spring grade.

Comes out to ~3.07 GPA.

Interested only in New York, leaning strongly lit, but wouldn't mind splitting between corp/lit at a firm.

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

Thanks guys, and best of luck to everyone!


Any idea where this puts you rank wise?

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ymmv
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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby ymmv » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all,

Wondering if people have advice re bid list building.

Grades were disappointing: B+, B+, B, B, B, B, LPS-H, and still waiting on one spring grade.

Comes out to ~3.07 GPA.

Interested only in New York, leaning strongly lit, but wouldn't mind splitting between corp/lit at a firm.

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

Thanks guys, and best of luck to everyone!


Plenty of NY firms are still in reach for you, but I would hustle regardless. Get as many OCI slots in NY as you can - including picking up all that are available once trading opens up - and blanket the rest of the city with mass mailings. I'd also recommend mass mailing any secondary markets you have strong ties too. They're generally tougher than NY but it never hurts to try.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:54 pm

UpandDown97 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi all,

Wondering if people have advice re bid list building.

Grades were disappointing: B+, B+, B, B, B, B, LPS-H, and still waiting on one spring grade.

Comes out to ~3.07 GPA.

Interested only in New York, leaning strongly lit, but wouldn't mind splitting between corp/lit at a firm.

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

Thanks guys, and best of luck to everyone!


Any idea where this puts you rank wise?


Not sure, but probably slightly below median. Conservatively? 35th-40th percentile.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:37 pm

Not sure, but probably slightly below median. Conservatively? 35th-40th percentile.


Is a 3.07 that high?? #givesmehope

Also congrats on giving enough of a fuck to get an H in LPS.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby GoCavaliers2018 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Not sure, but probably slightly below median. Conservatively? 35th-40th percentile.


Is a 3.07 that high?? #givesmehope

Also congrats on giving enough of a fuck to get an H in LPS.


Agreed. I'd play the H in LPS up.

If we were all benched against the same curve last semester, it'd be so much easier to tell where we stood as far as rank goes. The different curves of the electives mess it all up.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:25 pm

Has anyone been going to the receptions in NYC? How are they? Worth the time?

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DCNTUA
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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby DCNTUA » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone been going to the receptions in NYC? How are they? Worth the time?


Can't speak to New York, but the ones in DC have not been very informative or useful.

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ymmv
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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby ymmv » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:27 pm

DCNTUA wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone been going to the receptions in NYC? How are they? Worth the time?


Can't speak to New York, but the ones in DC have not been very informative or useful.


They're useful for generating interview material. "I talked to X about Y practice, and I'm really interested to learn more" etc. It's hard to stress how much having that kind of super simple touchstone that help you in the OCI process.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:23 pm

I went to one recently and actually found it really useful, I mingled with the right people and i think it will help me.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:34 am

Just got my final grade in. My grades look really bad right now. B-,B-,B-,B+,B+,B+,A.

That's a 3.15 but with a bunch of B-s.

Really hoping to go California Biglaw (I'm from there but have no helpful connections)...am I screwed? Any suggestions?

Anonymous User
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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just got my final grade in. My grades look really bad right now. B-,B-,B-,B+,B+,B+,A.

That's a 3.15 but with a bunch of B-s.

Really hoping to go California Biglaw (I'm from there but have no helpful connections)...am I screwed? Any suggestions?


Only way to know is to test the waters. We are at Penn afterall. Plus, your grades are all across the curve. People say that helps. That shiny "A" couldn't hurt either.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Nelson » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just got my final grade in. My grades look really bad right now. B-,B-,B-,B+,B+,B+,A.

That's a 3.15 but with a bunch of B-s.

Really hoping to go California Biglaw (I'm from there but have no helpful connections)...am I screwed? Any suggestions?

Penn doesn't help you get back to CA in the best of circumstances. Pound pavement this summer and do the west coast regional fair. Use your OCI bids on NYC to give you a market paying backup if things don't work out.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:45 am

Thanks for the feedback!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:26 pm

I'd prob move the three of them up and forget sullcrom

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Nelson
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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Nelson » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:54 pm

snip
Last edited by Nelson on Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:29 pm

When are these bid lists due?

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:33 pm

You will get all 4 of those firms where you have them now. You can get DPW, STB, and WLRK at 25+ so you're giving them plenty of cushion already (DPW has 80 slots, so you're hugely overranking them, but that might be justifiable if you just want peace of mind to be sure you'll get the firm though it is a bit of a waste to use a top 5 bid on them). You won't get some of the other firms on your list though (Skadden esp. is way too low).


Thanks for looking this over. I'm fine with missing Skadden. I bid DPW high because the spreadsheet says it has 60 bids with a 52% success rate. Maybe I'll move it down a bit. How can we even tell at what rank we can safely get a screener?
Edit: also, what other firms am I at risk of not getting?

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:11 pm

I wasn't gonna put much thought into the bidlist because I heard you can pick up any interviews you miss through the lottery directly at OCI anyway so I figured I wouldn't be losing out on many firms I really want to interview with.

Is that a bad strategy?

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Nelson
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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Nelson » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wasn't gonna put much thought into the bidlist because I heard you can pick up any interviews you miss through the lottery directly at OCI anyway so I figured I wouldn't be losing out on many firms I really want to interview with.

Is that a bad strategy?

It depends on what firms you're talking about, but in general, I would say this is not an optimal strategy. The firms that are freely available are either the very selective firms and/or ones with tons of slots. Popular firms not meeting those two criteria can be tough to get on the schedule for. Better to have the security of getting the firms you want through the lottery than trying to swap for them or pick them up at OCI, especially if you're targeting popular firms or schedules with few slots (which means not very many staff from the firm coming to OCI).

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:39 pm

How helpful is a CPP bidlist critique. I ask because I have no bidlist to speak of and the critique ends in two days...

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:15 pm

CPP gives general guidance. such as limiting the target market to 1 or 2. and also just making sure that you aren't making crazy stupid mistakes.

on a different note, anyone have any idea how this year will fare compare to last year's oci?

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Re: Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:CPP gives general guidance. such as limiting the target market to 1 or 2.


If you have good grades and a good story for more places than that, you don't need to limit yourself. I successfully interviewed in 4 different markets last year. Lots of the smaller regional ones only have a handful of firms anyway.

That said I would definitely recommend having at least a few big New York safeties no matter how good your grades and regional ties are.




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