Cornell 2015 AJF/BOJF/DCJF/OCI Forum

[Lavitz]

Callbacks Reported
Freshfields NY - VJ
Gibson Dunn (dinner)
Akin Gump - DB
Jones Day NY - HK, maybe KY
Latham NY
Latham OC - LS
Greenberg - NA
MoFo NY
Fried Frank (during screener with VO & HD)
Schulte
Proskauer
Winston - RR, ST
Davis Polk - FA, PR, BC
Cahill - DH
Pillsbury NY
WilmerHale NY - JH, DA
Shearman - LR, SG, CL
SullCrom - MT & JC
Cleary NY - LS, AL, BG
Seward & Kissel
WilmerHale DC
Milbank
Dechert - RW, AS, SZ
Dechert Phi
Cravath - RS, LE
Kirkland NY
Stroock
Reed Smith
Kaye Scholer - DS
White & Case - DH, EM
Pillsbury SF - MA
Paul Weiss - CR
Cadwalader - KH, BN
Paul Hastings NY - MP
Paul Hastings LA - KB
Willkie - MG
Simpson - CW
Alston NY
Linklaters - MP
Sidley - LA & MC
hogan lovells - LT
Debevoise - PI, JA
Skadden NY- JB
Skadden DE
clifford chance - AG, RP, NW
Arnold & Porter NYC, DC
Fried Frank - DS
Goodwin
O'Melveny LA
Holland & Knight (AR)
King & Spalding
Duval
Haynes & Boone
Cooley - MT
Morris Nichols DE
Ropes & Gray NY - JB
Pepper Hamilton NY
Pepper Hamilton Phi
Wilson Sonsini - JM, SR
Bryan Cave
NYC Law Department
Williams and Connolly
Baker Botts NY
Nutter
Choate Boston
foley hoag Boston
Wilmer Boston
Proskauer Boston
Morgan Lewis Boston
Goodwin Boston
Latham OC
Paul Hastings OC
Sullivan & Worcester
Chadbourne DC
Kirkland DC
Dentons



Rejections Reported
Proskauer
Cravath
Cleary
Allen & Overy
Reed Smith
Carter
Willkie
Chadbourne
Fried Frank
Shearman
WilmerHale
Simpson
Stroock
Greenberg
Davis Polk
Kasowitz
Debevoise
Orrick
Cooley
Richards Layton
Weil
Cadwalader
Morris Nichols
Schulte
Paul Weiss
Akin Gump
clifford chance
Jones Day
Milbank
Cahill (snail mail)
Gibson (snail mail)
Gibson LA
Latham DC/Houston/Chicago (snail mail)
Kirkland
hogan lovells
Skadden DE
Skadden Boston
Dechert
Winston & Strawn
Paul Hastings Chicago / DC
Paul Hastings NY
Dentons
Sidley Austin
Venable
Ropes & Gray
Hughes Hubbard
Wilson Sonsini



Offers Reported
Davis Polk
Shearman
Freshfields
Simpson
Latham
Cravath
Cahill
Linklaters
SullCrom
Clifford Chance
Akin Gump
WilmerHale NY
Sidley NY
Skadden NY
Paul Weiss
Debevoise
Dechert
Paul Hastings
Gibson Dunn NY
Cleary
Ropes and Gray
Cadwalader
Kirkland
Willkie Farr
Milbank
Morris Nichols
WilmerHale DC
Kaye Scholer
Fried Frank
Choate
Goodwin Boston
Jones Day



CLS 2Ls,

AJF is upon you.

This is where you can discuss all things related to the job hunt. Bidding, number of screener interviews, success with mass mailing, etc. Use the anon feature if you want to discuss sensitive information (such as your own GPA range) without having anybody figure out who you are from your regular username. Elder Cornellians will give advice, check your bidlists, etc.

When AJF begins, you should use the anon feature to report any callbacks, offers and rejections you get so that other neurotic folks can know what to expect and freak out accordingly. And when you report a CB, please include the initials of the screener you had if the firm sent multiple screeners; different screeners for the same firm may make decisions at different times. I will update the OP with a master list of CBs and rejections as you send them in, so you can check this post to see which firms have given out callbacks already.

Fall Recruiting Timeline
6/23: AJF/BOJF/DCJF Bidding Opens
7/7: Bidlists Due
7/10: Schedules Released
7/14: Open Slots Day
7/15: Tentative Law Review Notification Date
7/22: Resume Upload Deadline
8/3-5: AJF
8/6: Bidding Opens for OCI
8/10: BOJF
8/10: Bidlists Due for OCI
8/12: OCI Schedules Released
8/13: Open Slots Day for OCI
8/14: DCJF


Threads from Previous Years
AJF 2014
AJF 2013
AJF 2012
AJF 2011

Helpful Job Hunt Thread: Compilation - OCI and Job Search Advice

Poll Results after initial lottery:





The night is darkest just before the dawn.

[runthetrap1990]

Thanks for this, Lavitz. You the best.

[tyrant_flycatcher]

Having a rising 2L make this thread when Lavitz is still around would have been like having Luc Longley take the last shot for the Bulls when MJ was still around.

[King Cayuga]

Will journal results be out before bid lists are due? If not, before resumes need to be uploaded?

[runthetrap1990]

Will journal results be out before bid lists are due? If not, before resumes need to be uploaded?

Edit: no reading comp skills

[Lavitz]

Will journal results be out before bid lists are due? If not, before resumes need to be uploaded?

Sounds like the historical trend is Journal is after bids are due and before resumes uploaded.

Fall Recruiting Timeline
6/23: AJF/BOJF/DCJF Bidding Opens
7/7: Bidlists Due
7/10: Schedules Released
7/14: Open Slots Day
7/15: Tentative Law Review Notification Date
7/22: Resume Upload Deadline
8/3-5: AJF
8/6: Bidding Opens for OCI
8/10: BOJF
8/10: Bidlists Due for OCI
8/12: OCI Schedules Released
8/13: Open Slots Day for OCI
8/14: DCJF

[runthetrap1990]

Will journal results be out before bid lists are due? If not, before resumes need to be uploaded?

Sounds like the historical trend is Journal is after bids are due and before resumes uploaded.

Fall Recruiting Timeline
6/23: AJF/BOJF/DCJF Bidding Opens
7/7: Bidlists Due
7/10: Schedules Released
7/14: Open Slots Day
7/15: Tentative Law Review Notification Date
7/22: Resume Upload Deadline
8/3-5: AJF
8/6: Bidding Opens for OCI
8/10: BOJF
8/10: Bidlists Due for OCI
8/12: OCI Schedules Released
8/13: Open Slots Day for OCI
8/14: DCJF

i have no excuse.

[Wol]

If you're not on a journal at all, are you pretty much doomed you think? Seems like the journals are so large that it's an anomaly if you're not on one. If it's not complete doom, should you mentally apply a downward adjustment to your GPA when considering callback trend average info?

[Lavitz]

If you're not on a journal at all, are you pretty much doomed you think? Seems like the journals are so large that it's an anomaly if you're not on one. If it's not complete doom, should you mentally apply a downward adjustment to your GPA when considering callback trend average info?

Not doomed. I know plenty of people without a journal are still in biglaw. Not sure what the total percentage is, but I'd like to say it's at least half. Excluding JD/MBAs of course. You'd probably have to hustle more, especially if it's no journal + low grades. Then you should mass mail if you don't get on one.

Not sure about the downward adjustment. If you're at median, it's probably not too big of a deal. You can always just say you chose not to do it because you want to do corporate, want to spend more time on clinics, etc.

Ultimately, interviewing skills will matter more than whether or not you're on a journal. Some people who aren't on journals got biglaw; some people on law review didn't.

[Anonymous User]

Lavitz, can you talk about how really high grades (i.e., top 5% or top 10%) look without a journal? Do you know anyone who still got firms with somewhat elite litigation practices without a journal of any kind (i'm assuming the sample size is fairly small)?

[Lavitz]

Lavitz, can you talk about how really high grades (i.e., top 5% or top 10%) look without a journal? Do you know anyone who still got firms with somewhat elite litigation practices without a journal of any kind (i'm assuming the sample size is fairly small)?

I don't think I know of anyone top 10% with no journal in my year. At least excluding JD/MBAs. The closest I know is someone top 5% who is on a secondary instead of LR and is at a V5. I imagine the grades will matter more than a journal, and they'll do fine at most firms if they can articulate good reasons for not doing a journal. I think I know one person who isn't on a journal and got an offer from a firm with a great reputation for lit, if that's what you mean.

Since you mentioned elite litigation, I'll also add that if you want to clerk, not having any journal will hurt you with a lot of judges. But if you're top 5%, you should still have a decent chance of getting one. You may want to plan on working for 1-2 years before clerking though, because it seems to be a plus lately.

[mt2165]

If you didn't get on a journal, but then applied to work-on, would you even know if you could work-on before the resume upload? If not, why the fuck would anyone work-on? Just for tentative 3L job hunting and/or curing feelings of self-adequacy and alienation?

[runinthefront]

If you didn't get on a journal, but then applied to work-on, would you even know if you could work-on before the resume upload? If not, why the fuck would anyone work-on? Just for tentative 3L job hunting and/or curing feelings of self-adequacy and alienation?

the odds of clerking w/o any kind of journal has to be astronomically low

[Lavitz]

If you didn't get on a journal, but then applied to work-on, would you even know if you could work-on before the resume upload? If not, why the fuck would anyone work-on? Just for tentative 3L job hunting and/or curing feelings of self-adequacy and alienation?

You bring updated resume to screener. Most interviewers don't even read your resume beforehand anyway. Same applies for honors fellow, which usually aren't announced until the week before AJF.

[mt2165]

If you didn't get on a journal, but then applied to work-on, would you even know if you could work-on before the resume upload? If not, why the fuck would anyone work-on? Just for tentative 3L job hunting and/or curing feelings of self-adequacy and alienation?

the odds of clerking w/o any kind of journal has to be astronomically low

Good point, I feel that can't apply to too many people but still that makes sense. Like the top 10%ers who just absolutely shit the bed on the writing comp?

If you didn't get on a journal, but then applied to work-on, would you even know if you could work-on before the resume upload? If not, why the fuck would anyone work-on? Just for tentative 3L job hunting and/or curing feelings of self-adequacy and alienation?

You bring updated resume to screener. Most interviewers don't even read your resume beforehand anyway. Same applies for honors fellow, which usually aren't announced until the week before AJF.

Ahh ok so they still let you know before AJF-I guess that was the gist of my question-thanks

[Lavitz]

the odds of clerking w/o any kind of journal has to be astronomically low

Good point, I feel that can't apply to too many people but still that makes sense. Like the top 10%ers who just absolutely shit the bed on the writing comp?

First of all, if anyone is in the top 10% and they put in a good faith effort, I can't imagine them not making any journal at all. Some of them may consciously decide that a journal is a waste of time.

If they subsequently decide to clerk, it would not be impossible, but it would be more difficult and may require working for a few years first. But enough about clerkships. PM me if you want to talk about stuff like that.

[runthetrap1990]

If you didn't get on a journal, but then applied to work-on, would you even know if you could work-on before the resume upload? If not, why the fuck would anyone work-on? Just for tentative 3L job hunting and/or curing feelings of self-adequacy and alienation?

the odds of clerking w/o any kind of journal has to be astronomically low

Good point, I feel that can't apply to too many people but still that makes sense. Like the top 10%ers who just absolutely shit the bed on the writing comp?

i gathered from the way they set up scoring and and the leeway you get for being one of the top people in the class, that you actually had try really hard to avoid getting on any journal (assuming you did the writing comp).

[Anonymous User]

The writing comp materials say that the top two people in each section make law review. Does that mean that those people don't have to finish in the top 2/3rds of the writing competition?

[Anonymous User]

^ Yes.

[Lavitz]

The writing comp materials say that the top two people in each section make law review. Does that mean that those people don't have to finish in the top 2/3rds of the writing competition?

^ Yes.

Uhh, law review leadership says no.

Supposedly you still have to participate and be in top 2/3rds. The top 2 clause just means that if the top 2 in each section aren't among the top 15 eligible, (I.e. Four sections have 3 each, one has 2 and one has 1), then the one from the section left out will also grade on. I agree the language is ambiguous but this is apparently how it works.

[King Cayuga]

How should we treat the mean callback GPAs? Say a firm has a 3.93/3.74/3.51 split(not a real firm, just random numbers) and we know this was from a decent number of callbacks. At what GPA would you say "don't bother applying here unless you have some great hook"? 3.6? 3.7? Would it come down to whether Cornell lists the firm as highly selective or just somewhat selective?

[Lavitz]

How should we treat the mean callback GPAs? Say a firm has a 3.93/3.74/3.51 split(not a real firm, just random numbers) and we know this was from a decent number of callbacks. At what GPA would you say "don't bother applying here unless you have some great hook"? 3.6? 3.7? Would it come down to whether Cornell lists the firm as highly selective or just somewhat selective?

I never looked at the selectivity info. Sounds like it would be a target for someone with a 3.7 and a reach for someone with a 3.6. Whether you want to bid reaches depends on what the options for your list look like, how many slots each firm has, whether you want to work there, etc. If your gpa were at the low gpa, I wouldn't bid at all unless you have some great hook.

[King Cayuga]

Most of the Wednesday firms have no callback info, and there are far fewer scheduled for that day than Monday and Tuesday. Is there something different about these firms, and should we still plan on making 15 bids for that day?

[runinthefront]

Most of the Wednesday firms have no callback info, and there are far fewer scheduled for that day than Monday and Tuesday. Is there something different about these firms, and should we still plan on making 15 bids for that day?

If you look up many of the firms/conduct research, you'll see that many of them are more regional(-esque) firms. Actually, many (Perkins Coie, Haynes & Boone) are really strong firms, it's just that their HQ are not in NY. Some of these firms also pay below-market.

I don't know if I would suggest purposely under-bidding though, unless your GPA is super high + you're not particularly weird + you have an offer in hand. I also don't know if bidding all 15 is necessary, but I'm sure Lavitz can speak to that.

[Yea All Right]

Checking in. Thanks for all your time Lavitz.