Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 20, 2016 1:27 pm

Good looking brodaddy here. Below median at T25. Also on a full boat. Secured an NLJ250 gig while law review kids got jackshit. Law school grades do not matter.

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tyrant_flycatcher
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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby tyrant_flycatcher » Fri May 20, 2016 1:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
BizBro wrote:Why would you skip out on OCI. It would defeat the purpose of going to law school in the first place (which is to get employed). Like others said, you can still gun for PI or just brush off your OCI rejections saying you were interested in PI.

I'm at 3.1 at CCN (so i know what embarrassing grades feel like). Just bid larger summer classes in NYC that are not as grade selective.


what are some of the larger summer class firms in NYC that are not as grade selective?


Use NALP and maybe firm websites to find summer class sizes, and then cross-reference that information w/ the school-specific data that Career Services will likely make available to you. If you can't get access to GPA averages, you can use Vault rankings to get a rough idea of how selective a firm is.

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Serett
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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Serett » Fri May 20, 2016 2:17 pm

If you're overtly trying to self-sabotage, skip OCI. If not, stop being silly.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 20, 2016 2:36 pm

I had the exact same gpa at a lower t14--at a V50 firm this summer in NYC and I had multiple offers to choose from

you can definitely snag something if you bid well (assuming you're not a Georgetown--that will be tougher though not impossible)

Anonymous User wrote:Good looking brodaddy here. Below median at T25. Also on a full boat. Secured an NLJ250 gig while law review kids got jackshit. Law school grades do not matter.


not sure if trolling...
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri May 20, 2016 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby rpupkin » Fri May 20, 2016 2:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Good looking brodaddy here. Below median at T25. Also on a full boat. Secured an NLJ250 gig while law review kids got jackshit. Law school grades do not matter.

That's some tight logic.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 20, 2016 2:55 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Good looking brodaddy here. Below median at T25. Also on a full boat. Secured an NLJ250 gig while law review kids got jackshit. Law school grades do not matter.

That's some tight logic.



PPreciate that. Real talk though, grades do not mean that much. A nice suit can make a B look like a B+. Nice shoes can make a B+ and A-. Also, try to humblebrag about your hot girlfriend if you can in interviews. Old fat law partners love that. Dead serious.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby lawman84 » Fri May 20, 2016 9:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Good looking brodaddy here. Below median at T25. Also on a full boat. Secured an NLJ250 gig while law review kids got jackshit. Law school grades do not matter.

That's some tight logic.



PPreciate that. Real talk though, grades do not mean that much. A nice suit can make a B look like a B+. Nice shoes can make a B+ and A-. Also, try to humblebrag about your hot girlfriend if you can in interviews. Old fat law partners love that. Dead serious.


Then why did you just tell us that a nice suit and nice shoes boost that B to an A-?

Imagine what they do for an A student. :lol:

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Glasseyes » Fri May 20, 2016 10:47 pm

The key to T14 OCI is that they're (generally) all lottery, and those that aren't are like 70/30 lottery and preselect. This is literally your only opportunity at a captive Biglaw interviewer audience, so take the bull by the balls and yank. For some firms (e.g., Covington) it's just a formality before the inevitable ding based on grades. But plenty of others will give you a fair shot.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 31, 2016 2:24 pm

I'm really starting to hate Boalt's grading policy, I feel like all B+'s are more forgivable than straight Ps

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 31, 2016 2:25 pm

...

misterjames
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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby misterjames » Tue May 31, 2016 2:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Good looking brodaddy here. Below median at T25. Also on a full boat. Secured an NLJ250 gig while law review kids got jackshit. Law school grades do not matter.

That's some tight logic.



PPreciate that. Real talk though, grades do not mean that much. A nice suit can make a B look like a B+. Nice shoes can make a B+ and A-. Also, try to humblebrag about your hot girlfriend if you can in interviews. Old fat law partners love that. Dead serious.


I think there's actually truth to this but the issue is getting in the door for an interview in the first place, that's where grades matter and I think that's what everyone refers to when they talk about grades. Once you're in front of the interviewer, grades are the least of your concerns.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby 20160810 » Tue May 31, 2016 2:42 pm

This is exactly why law schools should grade inflate. Leave your rank off your resume. 3.15 from a T14 will get you some interviews. That GPA would be too third to even maaaaybe quarter at a lot of schools. This move probably won't fool many people but it's not dishonest and it's better than leaving off grades and rank.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby thegrayman » Tue May 31, 2016 7:05 pm

The BL firm I worked at took a Cornell bro with like a 3.0. Interview well and you're still in it, just own your grades and go in there like the alpha your height says you should be.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:04 am

I'm a well below median student from a T10. GPA around 2.7ish when OCI rolled around. I had only 1 B+ and 3 B- on my transcript, everything else was a B.

Got 2 offers on the west coast, and had a total of 5 CBs through all my interviewing. Interviewed west coast, NYC, and DC. Wish I had skipped DC, it's not worth it, they're too grade selective (I have strong ties - 20 years of living there). I have almost no ties to the west coast, but you might consider doing some independent outreach there, because from my experience the west coast cares a bit more about "fit."

4 of my 5 CBs came through doing OCI. I'm also a good-looking dude and I spent a lot of time/money finding the best local tailor (not mentioning this to be a douche, I just think it's important for looking good in an OCI interview, but suits that fit well won't appear flashy either if they are a classic color/fabric).

You should do OCI, you have a shot, but don't get your hopes up and mass mail everyone that you can if you want a chance at a firm job. Through OCI and independent outreach I picked up a total of ~60 screener interviews. The odds may be against you, but you have a shot.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:06 am

I'm anon from above...the offer I accepted is from a v50 just for your reference. My other CBs came from the v50-100 range (and a 1 unranked), and I didn't have a shot at firms much higher than that, so be realistic too in your interview selection, even in NYC.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby 1styearlateral » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:51 am

Can't imagine having a 3.15 and being "well below" median. Are there law students out there with 3.7 GPAs and not on law review?

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby DragonWell » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:34 am

Pretend you have to pay back $200K in student loan. Apply hard.
You feel humiliated? Think about Gary Cohn...

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:08 am

Had about the same GPA from a lower T-14 and for the sake of data, I'm better than average looking. Got 8 callbacks and 4 offers. Personality and looks go a long way (most law students are awkward and can't interview well). Wear a suit that fits and let your genes/personality carry you through to the miserable life of a biglaw associate...

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:18 am

1styearlateral wrote:Can't imagine having a 3.15 and being "well below" median. Are there law students out there with 3.7 GPAs and not on law review?


yes, there are law students with 3.7+ gpa's not on law review, because a lot of T14s don't do grade-on.

How is it confusing that 3.15 would be well below median? If median is 3.3 at your school, then most of the class is concentrated within the first two standard deviations between ~3.2 and 3.4. So anyone below that would be bottom third, just as a 3.45 would be solidly top third.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby 1styearlateral » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:Can't imagine having a 3.15 and being "well below" median. Are there law students out there with 3.7 GPAs and not on law review?


yes, there are law students with 3.7+ gpa's not on law review, because a lot of T14s don't do grade-on.

How is it confusing that 3.15 would be well below median? If median is 3.3 at your school, then most of the class is concentrated within the first two standard deviations between ~3.2 and 3.4. So anyone below that would be bottom third, just as a 3.45 would be solidly top third.


Yeah, I guess I forgot that some schools don't have a grade on option. But still, grade inflation must be a big thing at the higher ranked schools. My school's median GPA was like 2.8-2.9.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby 20160810 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:Can't imagine having a 3.15 and being "well below" median. Are there law students out there with 3.7 GPAs and not on law review?


yes, there are law students with 3.7+ gpa's not on law review, because a lot of T14s don't do grade-on.

How is it confusing that 3.15 would be well below median? If median is 3.3 at your school, then most of the class is concentrated within the first two standard deviations between ~3.2 and 3.4. So anyone below that would be bottom third, just as a 3.45 would be solidly top third.

This confusion kind of illustrates my point though. Plenty of law schools curve to a 3.3 median (or higher), but plenty don't. Normal seems to be around 3.0. Dude should just put his GPA (which looks kinda OK in a vacuum) on his resume and omit mention of the rank unless someone specifically asks about it in an interview.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:46 am

SBL wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:Can't imagine having a 3.15 and being "well below" median. Are there law students out there with 3.7 GPAs and not on law review?


yes, there are law students with 3.7+ gpa's not on law review, because a lot of T14s don't do grade-on.

How is it confusing that 3.15 would be well below median? If median is 3.3 at your school, then most of the class is concentrated within the first two standard deviations between ~3.2 and 3.4. So anyone below that would be bottom third, just as a 3.45 would be solidly top third.

This confusion kind of illustrates my point though. Plenty of law schools curve to a 3.3 median (or higher), but plenty don't. Normal seems to be around 3.0. Dude should just put his GPA (which looks kinda OK in a vacuum) on his resume and omit mention of the rank unless someone specifically asks about it in an interview.


tcr

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:47 pm

SBL wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:Can't imagine having a 3.15 and being "well below" median. Are there law students out there with 3.7 GPAs and not on law review?


yes, there are law students with 3.7+ gpa's not on law review, because a lot of T14s don't do grade-on.

How is it confusing that 3.15 would be well below median? If median is 3.3 at your school, then most of the class is concentrated within the first two standard deviations between ~3.2 and 3.4. So anyone below that would be bottom third, just as a 3.45 would be solidly top third.

This confusion kind of illustrates my point though. Plenty of law schools curve to a 3.3 median (or higher), but plenty don't. Normal seems to be around 3.0. Dude should just put his GPA (which looks kinda OK in a vacuum) on his resume and omit mention of the rank unless someone specifically asks about it in an interview.


The interviewer at e.g. Duke OCI will know exactly what Duke's median is though, I guarantee you. Your logic only works in a vacuum of uniform legal recruiting where students from different schools are being interviewed concurrently and interviewees are subject to information asymmetries. This will very rarely be relevant. Even in a callback situation where students from different schools might be coming in on the same day, (1) grades are less relevant at CB stage, and (2) the recruiting department generates a one-sheet for each school with details about median, various honors cutoffs, and how to translate idiosyncratic grading systems into GPA points (for your Chicago's, Harvard's, and Berkeley's) that it will either distribute to major interviewers or review in conjunction with any interviewer's notes.

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby 20160810 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:Can't imagine having a 3.15 and being "well below" median. Are there law students out there with 3.7 GPAs and not on law review?


yes, there are law students with 3.7+ gpa's not on law review, because a lot of T14s don't do grade-on.

How is it confusing that 3.15 would be well below median? If median is 3.3 at your school, then most of the class is concentrated within the first two standard deviations between ~3.2 and 3.4. So anyone below that would be bottom third, just as a 3.45 would be solidly top third.

This confusion kind of illustrates my point though. Plenty of law schools curve to a 3.3 median (or higher), but plenty don't. Normal seems to be around 3.0. Dude should just put his GPA (which looks kinda OK in a vacuum) on his resume and omit mention of the rank unless someone specifically asks about it in an interview.


The interviewer at e.g. Duke OCI will know exactly what Duke's median is though, I guarantee you. Your logic only works in a vacuum of uniform legal recruiting where students from different schools are being interviewed concurrently and interviewees are subject to information asymmetries. This will very rarely be relevant. Even in a callback situation where students from different schools might be coming in on the same day, (1) grades are less relevant at CB stage, and (2) the recruiting department generates a one-sheet for each school with details about median, various honors cutoffs, and how to translate idiosyncratic grading systems into GPA points (for your Chicago's, Harvard's, and Berkeley's) that it will either distribute to major interviewers or review in conjunction with any interviewer's notes.

I'm not saying it's a great solution, but what choice does the guy have?

He can either list nothing, in which case people will assume he's at the very bottom of the class. Or he can list both GPA (which doesn't look bad) and rank (which does). Or he can list just the GPA (which again looks kinda OK). Sure it's not going to fool anyone at OCI, but he should be mass mailing like crazy anyhow. I doubt that every 20-lawyer shop in NYC is going to know exactly what Duke's median is; a lot of them are just going to see a 3.15 from Duke and think "This guy could be worth a shot."

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Re: Garbage GPA at T14: bail on OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:56 pm

I see your point, but I would just leave off GPA entirely if I was below median. The interviewer will see a transcript. The resume should highlight your strong points, not your weaker ones: presumably you have a lot of other stuff on your resume, and you go to a top law school. Just my opinion I suppose--SBL's way could work too, but don't think you're fooling the interviewer/recruiting dept.




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