Michigan OCI 2015

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Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have a 3.26, got onto to a secondary journal, K-JD, URM.

Realistically, what are my chances of getting a CB at a Chicago firm?
Here's my bid list (I realize K&L & JB are huge reaches) in order of Vault rankings, NOT in the order that I will actually be bidding on them. I picked ones that had a median GPA from last year that is close to mine, like OCP told me (OCP actually told me I should add more reach firms).

K&L Gates
Jenner & Block
Dechert
Greenberg Traurig
Perkins Coie
Holland & Knight
Nixon Peabody
Foley & Lardner
Bryan Cave
Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton
Katten Muchin Rosenman
Locke Lord
Drinker Biddle & Reath
Duane Morris
Chapman & Cutler
Vedder Price
Barack Ferrazzano Kirschbaum & Nagelberg
Faegre Baker Daniels
Polsinelli
Thompson Coburn
Taft Stettinius & Hollister
Quarles & Brady
Michael, Best, & Friedrich
Schiff Hardin

I have Midwest ties and am also going to be bidding on Michigan firms (likely all of the ones coming to OCI). Are these Chicago firms impossible for me? I do not want to go to NYC, but am open to any other "easier" markets that you all might suggest.


Knock out Barack. They are highly prestigious/selective and not very big. Other than that...with your URM status, I think you can afford to be a bit more risky. Maybe knock out a few of the firms that have super small classes (e.g. Sheppard) and add ones that have massive classes (e.g. Mayer Brown).

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have a 3.26, got onto to a secondary journal, K-JD, URM.

Realistically, what are my chances of getting a CB at a Chicago firm?
Here's my bid list (I realize K&L & JB are huge reaches) in order of Vault rankings, NOT in the order that I will actually be bidding on them. I picked ones that had a median GPA from last year that is close to mine, like OCP told me (OCP actually told me I should add more reach firms).

K&L Gates
Jenner & Block
Dechert
Greenberg Traurig
Perkins Coie
Holland & Knight
Nixon Peabody
Foley & Lardner
Bryan Cave
Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton
Katten Muchin Rosenman
Locke Lord
Drinker Biddle & Reath
Duane Morris
Chapman & Cutler
Vedder Price
Barack Ferrazzano Kirschbaum & Nagelberg
Faegre Baker Daniels
Polsinelli
Thompson Coburn
Taft Stettinius & Hollister
Quarles & Brady
Michael, Best, & Friedrich
Schiff Hardin

I have Midwest ties and am also going to be bidding on Michigan firms (likely all of the ones coming to OCI). Are these Chicago firms impossible for me? I do not want to go to NYC, but am open to any other "easier" markets that you all might suggest.


Knock out Barack. They are highly prestigious/selective and not very big. Other than that...with your URM status, I think you can afford to be a bit more risky. Maybe knock out a few of the firms that have super small classes (e.g. Sheppard) and add ones that have massive classes (e.g. Mayer Brown).


Midwest Ties /=/ Chicago Ties. Found this out the hard way last time. Unless you worked in Chicago previously, went to school there previously, ort have a sig. other there currently, you don't have meaningful Chicago ties. You might still get some cbs at these places but just FYI.

Also Chicago is harder because the classes are smaller. Skadden, K&E, Mayer Brown, and Jenner are probably the biggest and none of them (I think) are over 35.

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:15 am

Bidding is open. Good luck everyone.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:19 pm

Any guess as to where we need to bid Sidley Austin LA? Doesn't look like they interviewed for that office last year so no historical data, but they're giving it the same number of interview slots as NYC which was a pretty tough draw last year (33%). Should I just assume it'll be equally as tough for LA this year, or is NYC more coveted?

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:28 pm

I'd look to other firms with big offices in NYC and LA. Maybe compare it to like Latham or skadden, and see if there is a general pattern. My hunch is that it could be bid a tad lower than the NYC counterpart

scaliaantics
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby scaliaantics » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any guess as to where we need to bid Sidley Austin LA? Doesn't look like they interviewed for that office last year so no historical data, but they're giving it the same number of interview slots as NYC which was a pretty tough draw last year (33%). Should I just assume it'll be equally as tough for LA this year, or is NYC more coveted?


When i bid them 2 years ago, I bid them at 29 and got them. I bid Sidley NYC at #1.

oblig.lawl.ref
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby oblig.lawl.ref » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:45 pm

scaliaantics wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any guess as to where we need to bid Sidley Austin LA? Doesn't look like they interviewed for that office last year so no historical data, but they're giving it the same number of interview slots as NYC which was a pretty tough draw last year (33%). Should I just assume it'll be equally as tough for LA this year, or is NYC more coveted?


When i bid them 2 years ago, I bid them at 29 and got them. I bid Sidley NYC at #1.


I also bid Sidley LA two years ago and although I don't remember exactly where I bid them I wanna say it was probably at least late teens if not early 20s.

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:02 pm

Hi all, I'd like to get some feedback on my bid list.

I have a ~3.65, got onto a secondary journal, 1-2 yr WE, but no real ties to any market b/c I'm an international student.

I'm interested in doing corporate in NY and bidding all NY for OCI. Below is my current bid list (all NY):
----------------------------------------------------
1. Sidley Austin
2. Jones Day
3. Kirkland & Ellis
4. Ropes & Gray
5. Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld
6. Mayer Brown
7. Cahill Gordon & Reindel
8. Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison
9. Paul Hastings Janofsky & Walker
10. Gibson Dunn & Crutcher
11. Allen & Overy
12. Clifford & Chance
13. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
14. Linklaters
15. Weil Gotshal & Manges
16. Latham & Watkins
17. Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy
18. Debevoise & Plimpton
19. White & Case
20. Davis Polk & Wardwell
21. Proskauer
22. Schulte Roth & Zabel
23. Shearman & Sterling
24. Cadwalaer Wickersham & Taft
25. Willkie Farr & Gallagher
26. Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson
27. O'Melveny & [deleted]
28. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton
29. Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer
30. Sullivan & Cromwell
-----------------------------------------------------
Two Questions:

1) Any feedback on the choice of firms? Too conservative or too aggressive, etc.?
2) Can someone give me feedback on the ordering of the firms?

Thanks! :D

Anonymous User
Posts: 273265
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all, I'd like to get some feedback on my bid list.

I have a ~3.65, got onto a secondary journal, 1-2 yr WE, but no real ties to any market b/c I'm an international student.

I'm interested in doing corporate in NY and bidding all NY for OCI. Below is my current bid list (all NY):
----------------------------------------------------
1. Sidley Austin
2. Jones Day
3. Kirkland & Ellis
4. Ropes & Gray
5. Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld
6. Mayer Brown
7. Cahill Gordon & Reindel
8. Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison
9. Paul Hastings Janofsky & Walker
10. Gibson Dunn & Crutcher
11. Allen & Overy
12. Clifford & Chance
13. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
14. Linklaters
15. Weil Gotshal & Manges
16. Latham & Watkins
17. Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy
18. Debevoise & Plimpton
19. White & Case
20. Davis Polk & Wardwell
21. Proskauer
22. Schulte Roth & Zabel
23. Shearman & Sterling
24. Cadwalaer Wickersham & Taft
25. Willkie Farr & Gallagher
26. Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson
27. O'Melveny & [deleted]
28. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton
29. Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer
30. Sullivan & Cromwell
-----------------------------------------------------
Two Questions:

1) Any feedback on the choice of firms? Too conservative or too aggressive, etc.?
2) Can someone give me feedback on the ordering of the firms?

Thanks! :D


If you want to do corporate in NYC, where is Skadden? Cahill will work you to the bone, but you'll get paid for it. Fried, Frank seems low on your list, but I could be wrong.

CTT
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:37 am

Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby CTT » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all, I'd like to get some feedback on my bid list.

I have a ~3.65, got onto a secondary journal, 1-2 yr WE, but no real ties to any market b/c I'm an international student.

I'm interested in doing corporate in NY and bidding all NY for OCI. Below is my current bid list (all NY):
----------------------------------------------------
1. Sidley Austin
2. Jones Day
3. Kirkland & Ellis
4. Ropes & Gray
5. Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld
6. Mayer Brown
7. Cahill Gordon & Reindel
8. Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison
9. Paul Hastings Janofsky & Walker
10. Gibson Dunn & Crutcher
11. Allen & Overy
12. Clifford & Chance
13. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
14. Linklaters
15. Weil Gotshal & Manges
16. Latham & Watkins
17. Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy
18. Debevoise & Plimpton
19. White & Case
20. Davis Polk & Wardwell
21. Proskauer
22. Schulte Roth & Zabel
23. Shearman & Sterling
24. Cadwalaer Wickersham & Taft
25. Willkie Farr & Gallagher
26. Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson
27. O'Melveny & [deleted]
28. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton
29. Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer
30. Sullivan & Cromwell
-----------------------------------------------------
Two Questions:

1) Any feedback on the choice of firms? Too conservative or too aggressive, etc.?
2) Can someone give me feedback on the ordering of the firms?

Thanks! :D

In terms of corporate New York, yes, add skadden. Skadden has traditionally been at the top of the M&A market. I would move Cleary up a bit. Two years ago it had a really high bid/interview rate, and then a lot of people dropped it from their lists because it looked like you needed to bid it high up and everyone got it. This year, everyone who has a 3.5+ will bid it in the 20s. SullCrom may be similar, but because the GPA line is a little higher, it may be ok close to the end. Don't try to get 30 interviews. Try to get 25. 3.65 is good enough where you're not going to Schulte, and you're spending spots on magic circle firms that have relatively small class sizes.

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:37 pm

Quick question- do people here still suggest mass mailing if you have a 3.6+? Can you rely on OCI?

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby UnamSanctam » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:Quick question- do people here still suggest mass mailing if you have a 3.6+? Can you rely on OCI?

Always mass mail.

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:54 am

Noob question: What's my mass mailing goal if I won't be in my target market before OCI? Do firms do skype/phone screeners? Should I instead be mass mailing my home market I don't have much interest in?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:27 am

Mass mailing is important and can be fruitful, but it is important to pursue such opportunities in addition to preparing for OCI/Screeners, not at the expense of doing so. This is especially true for those of you who have above-median grades and should be expecting to get a job through OCI. What this means is you should be spending all extra time right now contacting current SAs, associates, and partners at firms you are interested in.

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:48 pm

So I've entered my bids. But there's no submit button or anything is there?

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:15 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Quick question- do people here still suggest mass mailing if you have a 3.6+? Can you rely on OCI?

Always mass mail.


Sorry if this is a dumb Q, but does the way you supplement your OCI/career fair interviews with mass mail differ when you are a good amount above median?

As of now, I'm fairly confident I can get maybe 25-30 interviews through OCI, career fairs, or simplicity resume drops. This should cover about like 98% of the firms that I'm targeting and are around my stats range. Outside of that, should I still be mass mailing firms that are way below my GPA range just so I can get a safety?

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby UnamSanctam » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Quick question- do people here still suggest mass mailing if you have a 3.6+? Can you rely on OCI?

Always mass mail.


Sorry if this is a dumb Q, but does the way you supplement your OCI/career fair interviews with mass mail differ when you are a good amount above median?

As of now, I'm fairly confident I can get maybe 25-30 interviews through OCI, career fairs, or simplicity resume drops. This should cover about like 98% of the firms that I'm targeting and are around my stats range. Outside of that, should I still be mass mailing firms that are way below my GPA range just so I can get a safety?


You should always be doing everything that you can until it starts interfering with better/realistic options. So if your time is completely consumed by the 98% you have covered, then I wouldn't start mass mailing safety firms to the detriment of your wheelhouse. But if you have the spare time and just want to get a beer or something instead of mass mailing, it's worth covering as many bases as possible. The probable outcome is that all that work will have been unnecessary because you're probably going to get picked up by someone with a GPA that good, but you also don't want to be kicking yourself if everything goes awry and you shirked other opportunities.

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:31 pm

is a 3.5 student born and raised in detroit very competitive for detroit jobs or like coin flip chance? hard to tell level of competition because of curve change.

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:54 pm

Is median still 3.2?

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby UnamSanctam » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:is a 3.5 student born and raised in detroit very competitive for detroit jobs or like coin flip chance? hard to tell level of competition because of curve change.


Yes, but the market is small so hustle.

Anonymous User wrote:Is median still 3.2?


No, it's somewhere around a 3.3, probably a little higher.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:15 am

dude, if someone asks if median is around 3.2, just say yeah, that's not a Michigan student, me thinks

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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:21 am

Just FYI: If you're a 2L currently in NYC and you're sending your stuff to NYC firms already please make sure you've made contact with summers at that firm before you send your resume/transcript in. Recruiting is starting to ask current SAs if we know people, and we can't put in a good word if you haven't reached out or otherwise know someone at that firm.

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby UnamSanctam » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:dude, if someone asks if median is around 3.2, just say yeah, that's not a Michigan student, me thinks

:|

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:48 am

Lots of good stuff already said on the good grades/mass mailing question but I wanted to throw my perspective in. I had similar grades, got nothing from a great amount of mass mailing, didn't do that great at OCI, but honestly I wouldn't have done anything different. At screeners your goal is to know a little bit about the culture of the firm and also to have a pretty good idea of what you're getting into by working at a law firm. Beyond that, it's fit, the mood of the interviewer, what you're wearing that day, etc. - stuff out of your control. I feel like reaching out to more people at the firm will help you less because it's only slightly increasing your chances and from mass mailing an actual job can materialize.

I'm speaking very broadly and you should probably talk to at least one person at every firm you have a screener with. But this is basically your only chance at a big law job, so you want to put your name out to as many firms as possible. So, exactly as others said, mass mail. And particularly if the question is simply mass mail or just enjoy my summer, you really need to do a fair bit of it. At OCI, what if your extremely ill? What if you have a black eye? Mass mail.

And just so I'm covering all the bases, mass mailing can be 100% waste of time if you do it incorrectly. Do it right to make it worthwhile. Check the TLS guide.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2015

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:58 pm

Had a bit of a neurotic moment in trying to sort out where to bid CA firms based off of last year's data and counted the # of people in both this and last year's classes that have ties to CA (via either listed hometown or listed college). Turns out there was way more people last year with some sort of CA tie - ~44 for our class, ~75 for last year's.

Obviously that doesn't include people that might have other CA ties that wouldn't be caught on the directory, nor does it account for people with CA ties who have no interest in bidding there, but it does shed a small amount of light on class demographics that might affect this year's bidding.




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