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[BaberhamLincoln]

fuck it

[goden]

Lol

[Br3v]

Explain what you "know" of the story

[Johann]

straight up you should prolly take a break right now. some redactions might not hurt.

[BaberhamLincoln]

Not going to put the kid on blast. Just providing another perspective

[El Pollito]

you might want to be more discrete

[Tiago Splitter]

At my firm, the lowest paid partner booked ~$1.2m last year. I doubt anyone making that much is taking a step down even after all the extra partner bs.

You either work at an unusual law firm or are misreading/misunderstanding something.

ETA: If by "booked" you mean brought in 1.2m in billables (through the partner's own billable time as well as the billable time of associates to whom the partner assigned work), I could believe that. But, of course, the junior partner's share would be a fraction of that figure.

It's a global V30 firm. The gross pay of the lowest paid partner at the firm I was at was ~$1.2m. This came up in the context of a discussion about counsel v. jr partner compensation and, when you look at the PPP, it makes sense that a jr partner is taking home ~1/2 of that with more senior partners probably getting 2-3x that.

According to this article the lowest paid partner at Dewey was getting 300k.

I believe at Weil they couldn't push any partners out but when they did layoffs the talk was that partners whose comp was cut got pushed down toward that same 300k range.

[El Pollito]

the "he deserved it" no offer mythology is sort of amazing. like, i'm sure it's true in some cases, but when you hear these stories that develop it sounds like these people are absolute monsters.

[Johann]

According to this article the lowest paid partner at Dewey was getting 300k.

I believe at Weil they couldn't push any partners out but when they did layoffs the talk was that partners whose comp was cut got pushed down toward that same 300k range.

My understanding is that is salary though. You still get an income share.

[Anonymous User]

the "he deserved it" no offer mythology is sort of amazing. like, i'm sure it's true in some cases, but when you hear these stories that develop it sounds like these people are absolute monsters.

Offers went out today. My best friend in the summer program got no offered for "work product" reasons. He had one negative leaning review out of 15+ assignments.

I'm already wondering what stories will be told about him before we start.

[goden]

Shit. Out the firm market?

[rpupkin]

Shit. Out the firm market?

C'mon, dude. Someone needs to sticky DF's post:

The whole problem with the OUT THE FIRM brigade is that they are collecting the wrong data.

There are two types of no offers:

1) Earned it - being weird or shitty

2) Economic - not enough work to support the classes.

Economic types are hard to see in advance, and past economic no offers aren't all that useful. Places like Winston no offered a bunch, but then returned to 100%. These firms just take a smaller class the next year. There is some threat, but it's not huge. I guess it makes sense to avoid these firms.

But earned it firms are hard to spot. Many years nobody earned it. My office offered 100% two years running, but we do not have 100% policy. Most firms aren't really 100%. So "outting" the firm for no offering one person is sort of useless.

I'd only consider a firm 100% if it's been 100% from 2010 summer til today.

[bearsfan23]

Shit. Out the firm market?

C'mon, dude. Someone needs to sticky DF's post:

The whole problem with the OUT THE FIRM brigade is that they are collecting the wrong data.

There are two types of no offers:

1) Earned it - being weird or shitty

2) Economic - not enough work to support the classes.

Economic types are hard to see in advance, and past economic no offers aren't all that useful. Places like Winston no offered a bunch, but then returned to 100%. These firms just take a smaller class the next year. There is some threat, but it's not huge. I guess it makes sense to avoid these firms.

But earned it firms are hard to spot. Many years nobody earned it. My office offered 100% two years running, but we do not have 100% policy. Most firms aren't really 100%. So "outting" the firm for no offering one person is sort of useless.

I'd only consider a firm 100% if it's been 100% from 2010 summer til today.

That's great and all, but there's definitely a 3rd type of no-offer that is what a place like TLS is most useful for:

3) The "K&L Gates special" - Intentionally overhiring SA's then making them compete for offers. They do this pretty much every single year, so I'm not sure how it fits into 1) or 2)

[Cobretti]

There are firms that didn't no offer anyone when the economy was at its worst though, and instead did things like deferred start for a year with half salary + pay for llm during that time. I just point this out because there is a benefit to know you're going to a firm where even when the economy tanks you are most likely still safer than if you go to a firm that will always go straight to giving out no offers as soon as the firm hits a rough patch.

With that being said it might be more useful to "out" the firms that have refused to no offer for economic reasons, it's definitely a much shorter list.

[5ky]

i mean, there's no need to out firms like K&L gates though. i would put the burden on any law student to do their due diligence and be cognizant of the risks. all the data is out there, it's not like K&L gates is hiding the ball or something.

[Desert Fox]

[Desert Fox]

[Anonymous User]

i mean, there's no need to out firms like K&L gates though. i would put the burden on any law student to do their due diligence and be cognizant of the risks. all the data is out there, it's not like K&L gates is hiding the ball or something.

Well to be fair, I was once a naive summer that went into, and out of K&L Gates, with no clue about their offer rates were. Though the information was there, I had no clue until finding out that fellow summers had been no-offered and then looking at the dearth of info available here on TLS and elsewhere online. At our office at least, they didn't make it clear that not everyone would be getting offers.

[5ky]

i mean, there's no need to out firms like K&L gates though. i would put the burden on any law student to do their due diligence and be cognizant of the risks. all the data is out there, it's not like K&L gates is hiding the ball or something.

Well to be fair, I was once a naive summer that went into, and out of K&L Gates, with no clue about their offer rates were. Though the information was there, I had no clue until finding out that fellow summers had been no-offered and then looking at the dearth of info available here on TLS and elsewhere online. At our office at least, they didn't make it clear that not everyone would be getting offers.

Right. Not to be harsh, but what I'm saying is that is your fault. These are the types of things that you should be researching carefully when making this decision. If the information is publicly available out there -- especially on a central clearing site like NALP -- it's your job to be armed with the facts. For a decision as important as this, you simply cannot trust that your employer will take care of you and everything will be fine.

[Desert Fox]

[Br3v]

i mean, there's no need to out firms like K&L gates though. i would put the burden on any law student to do their due diligence and be cognizant of the risks. all the data is out there, it's not like K&L gates is hiding the ball or something.

Well to be fair, I was once a naive summer that went into, and out of K&L Gates, with no clue about their offer rates were. Though the information was there, I had no clue until finding out that fellow summers had been no-offered and then looking at the dearth of info available here on TLS and elsewhere online. At our office at least, they didn't make it clear that not everyone would be getting offers.

Right. Not to be harsh, but what I'm saying is that is your fault. These are the types of things that you should be researching carefully when making this decision. If the information is publicly available out there -- especially on a central clearing site like NALP -- it's your job to be armed with the facts. For a decision as important as this, you simply cannot trust that your employer will take care of you and everything will be fine.

This makes sense but doesn't explain the need to not re-emphasize facts on TLS. Like what would happen if you spread the word on TLS? Save some poor sap who didn't do their due diligence from making a bad career decision? Isn't that what this site is for?

[Johann]

K&l gates problems go beyond their normal no offers. They are the least stable major law firm right now and it's not out of the question to think in less than a year over 1000 lawyers will be forced out of there. That's the reason it's getting toe attention. If they normal offer 80% you could be looking at much lower. He'll even getting an offer there prolly gives you about a 50% chance of employment come graduation time.

[Tiago Splitter]

i mean, there's no need to out firms like K&L gates though. i would put the burden on any law student to do their due diligence and be cognizant of the risks. all the data is out there, it's not like K&L gates is hiding the ball or something.

Well to be fair, I was once a naive summer that went into, and out of K&L Gates, with no clue about their offer rates were. Though the information was there, I had no clue until finding out that fellow summers had been no-offered and then looking at the dearth of info available here on TLS and elsewhere online. At our office at least, they didn't make it clear that not everyone would be getting offers.

Right. Not to be harsh, but what I'm saying is that is your fault. These are the types of things that you should be researching carefully when making this decision. If the information is publicly available out there -- especially on a central clearing site like NALP -- it's your job to be armed with the facts. For a decision as important as this, you simply cannot trust that your employer will take care of you and everything will be fine.

This makes sense but doesn't explain the need to not re-emphasize facts on TLS. Like what would happen if you spread the word on TLS? Save some poor sap who didn't do their due diligence from making a bad career decision? Isn't that what this site is for?

And the info beyond one year isn't easy to find. The NALP offer rate right now is for the summer of 2014, so someone doing OCI and using NALP would have no way to know that summers at a firm were just no-offered within the last week.

K&L Gates is SPS but for closer calls it's good to get everything out there.

[Anonymous User]

just posting to say K&L Gates Pittsburgh was a legit competition amongst summers from what I could see

pretty sure the firm was open about it, too (from the 2-3 summers I spoke to in brief)

I don't think it's wrong to keep bringing up repeat offender firms

[5ky]

Tiago: Good point, I totally forgot about that