Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
MarkinKansasCity
Posts: 11046
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:18 am

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:52 pm

chimp wrote:why the fuck does anyone do anything? we're all just going to die.


To get laid? I'm pretty sure that's the only answer here.

User avatar
FSK
Posts: 6368
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:47 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby FSK » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:00 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are we all really just a bunch of idiots?


Yes.

User avatar
FSK
Posts: 6368
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:47 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby FSK » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:03 pm

bearsfan23 wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:I went to law school because my friend told me we should go to law school and purge our sub 2.5 undergrad gpas/ wait out the economy with more school. We both took the Dec LSAT and filled out applications for the same cycle. Summer before law school he ended up bailing on the idea and killed himself shortly after I started law school. To this day, I'm not sure who made the better choice.

My brother rode out 2 years of unemployment/under employment and sandbagged a 170+ LSAT and 3.97 GPA. Happiest fucker I know today.


This is seriously messed up. You need to get off TLS and get actual mental help dude


Holy shit, I don't even know what to say to that drivel.

Hutz_and_Goodman
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 am

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:35 pm

I got a full ride to law school
I have a humanities BA and could not make good money in my previous career
I have no debt and will start major market big law in the fall
The salary is more than 4 times the most I've ever made in a year
I know the job will be grueling, I will be treated like shit at times, bottom rung of the totem pole
Nonetheless I feel extremely extremely lucky
If I cannot take big law even making 60-70k is almost twice my previous salary and I would be happy with that

User avatar
Capitol_Idea
Posts: 10724
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:54 am

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby Capitol_Idea » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:53 pm

chimp wrote:why the fuck does anyone do anything? we're all just going to die.

Chimp you are a delightful ray of sunshine.

I was making close to 70K as a legal consultant but felt my career slowing down. Going to law school then Biglaw, and maybe back into consulting eventually at a much higher salary and management level. Sometimes law is a way to get somewhere else professionally - though I agree 9 times out of 10 the degree and debt isn't worth it.

User avatar
ManoftheHour
Posts: 3402
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:03 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby ManoftheHour » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:55 pm

I went to a state school and at the time my parents were poor so I got free tuition for four years of undergrad. Majored in something shitty and totally unmarketable. Then I got a full ride to law school and my parents became rich so now no COL. I went because I worked at an unstable company making $40,000 and saw no opportunity to advance my career so I thought why not. We'll see in two years whether I fucked up big or not.

User avatar
ymmv
Posts: 13030
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:36 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby ymmv » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:56 pm

What the fuck johann.

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9651
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:55 pm

for people with rich parents its a nice way to get them off your back by feigning productivity in boomer-friendly form, buying a few more years of relative free time.

you can only spend so many falls in thailand and springs in ibiza with your B.A. in PPE before dad starts to wonder when he can drop a line about his son/daughter starting law school to his neighbor or coworker with the ever so slightly newer model Carrera whose ever so slightly younger wife just got picked over mom to chair that season's cotillion

and obviously there's very little true economic downside

User avatar
DavidConeSplitter
Posts: 742
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:53 am

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby DavidConeSplitter » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:58 pm

Because it makes them sick at arguing with strangers on internet forums

Cogburn87
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:26 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby Cogburn87 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:12 pm

Some do it for love of the game, bro

User avatar
Lacepiece23
Posts: 836
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby Lacepiece23 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:31 pm

I think I'll actually like being a lawyer? Idk if I wanted to get rich I would have did something else. But I'm not good at math, and do like to read/write. So, I think this matches my skills. Who knows. I also think that I am above average at public speaking. Maybe I'll quit the biglaw thing and go PD. But the only things I really like in life are cheap anyway (alcohol and tobacco).

hawgs92
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:30 am

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby hawgs92 » Fri May 01, 2015 8:11 am

wanted to be a lawyer

User avatar
Yukos
Posts: 1775
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:47 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby Yukos » Fri May 01, 2015 1:38 pm

I actually really like going to law school. It might turn out to be a mistake, but I also might get an LRAPable PI job and have the whole thing basically have been free. Considering my gross income the year before law school was like $12,000, it probably will have been worth it.

User avatar
rnoodles
Posts: 7399
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:52 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby rnoodles » Fri May 01, 2015 2:00 pm

Don't mean to be a jack@$$ here, but every time someone posts comments like this I have no sympathy for them. As an adult, you accepted the responsibility to go to law school - often one which is a T25 or better school. You were undoubtedly aware of the employment prospects, dismal economy, etc. Suck it up, because you, who decided to go to law school because your major couldn't land a job or you just wanted to go to school a bit longer and figured law school was the way to go, took a spot and scholarship money that could have gone to someone else who genuinely wanted to go to law school. Perhaps even worse is the fact that people like this, who may no longer appreciate the opportunity they have been given, shockingly forget to consider this very fact. They often neglect, either consciously or not, to consider the fact that they took a spot and/or money that could have gone to someone else that would have done infinitely more with it and that would have been immeasurably more grateful. So please, I implore any and all of you to consider this the next time you wonder "why the fuck does anyone go to law school?" Some of us are blessed with opportunities that others crave insatiably. Don't piss it away, and don't be ungrateful for having the opportunity thousands of others strived for. Our high GPAs and LSATs don't make us any more entitled to squander what we have been lucky enough to attain. #TheMoreYouKnow

Note: I may use 'they,' but I do intend to include myself. I in no way wish to denigrate anybody, nor do I wish to undermine their circumstances.
Last edited by sublime on Fri May 01, 2015 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Outed for anon abuse (no private info) and being an asshole.

User avatar
Smoking Gunner
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:22 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby Smoking Gunner » Fri May 01, 2015 2:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Don't mean to be a jack@$$ here, but every time someone posts comments like this I have no sympathy for them. As an adult, you accepted the responsibility to go to law school - often one which is a T25 or better school. You were undoubtedly aware of the employment prospects, dismal economy, etc. Suck it up, because you, who decided to go to law school because your major couldn't land a job or you just wanted to go to school a bit longer and figured law school was the way to go, took a spot and scholarship money that could have gone to someone else who genuinely wanted to go to law school. Perhaps even worse is the fact that people like this, who may no longer appreciate the opportunity they have been given, shockingly forget to consider this very fact. They often neglect, either consciously or not, to consider the fact that they took a spot and/or money that could have gone to someone else that would have done infinitely more with it and that would have been immeasurably more grateful. So please, I implore any and all of you to consider this the next time you wonder "why the fuck does anyone go to law school?" Some of us are blessed with opportunities that others crave insatiably. Don't piss it away, and don't be ungrateful for having the opportunity thousands of others strived for. Our high GPAs and LSATs don't make us any more entitled to squander what we have been lucky enough to attain. #TheMoreYouKnow

Note: I may use 'they,' but I do intend to include myself. I in no way wish to denigrate anybody, nor do I wish to undermine their circumstances.


I don't think this thread was made or commented on by people who are ungrateful for the opportunities that they have. I think this thread is more about highlighting many of the facts (i.e. financial risks) associated with going to law school, which are often overlooked by people who decide on going to law school relatively haphazardly.

It's like if an NFL player said "why would anyone want to be an NFL player when you're subjecting yourself to potential brain trauma." I don't think that person would be demonstrating any sort of ungratefulness about being in the NFL, they're simply throwing the question out there so that people understand the risks associated with such a dangerous profession. I think that's really all this thread is doing.

UpandDown97
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:07 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby UpandDown97 » Fri May 01, 2015 2:18 pm

Plunder the Lox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Don't mean to be a jack@$$ here, but every time someone posts comments like this I have no sympathy for them. As an adult, you accepted the responsibility to go to law school - often one which is a T25 or better school. You were undoubtedly aware of the employment prospects, dismal economy, etc. Suck it up, because you, who decided to go to law school because your major couldn't land a job or you just wanted to go to school a bit longer and figured law school was the way to go, took a spot and scholarship money that could have gone to someone else who genuinely wanted to go to law school. Perhaps even worse is the fact that people like this, who may no longer appreciate the opportunity they have been given, shockingly forget to consider this very fact. They often neglect, either consciously or not, to consider the fact that they took a spot and/or money that could have gone to someone else that would have done infinitely more with it and that would have been immeasurably more grateful. So please, I implore any and all of you to consider this the next time you wonder "why the fuck does anyone go to law school?" Some of us are blessed with opportunities that others crave insatiably. Don't piss it away, and don't be ungrateful for having the opportunity thousands of others strived for. Our high GPAs and LSATs don't make us any more entitled to squander what we have been lucky enough to attain. #TheMoreYouKnow

Note: I may use 'they,' but I do intend to include myself. I in no way wish to denigrate anybody, nor do I wish to undermine their circumstances.


I don't think this thread was made or commented on by people who are ungrateful for the opportunities that they have. I think this thread is more about highlighting many of the facts (i.e. financial risks) associated with going to law school, which are often overlooked by people who decide on going to law school relatively haphazardly.

It's like if an NFL player said "why would anyone want to be an NFL player when you're subjecting yourself to potential brain trauma." I don't think that person would be demonstrating any sort of ungratefulness about being in the NFL, they're simply throwing the question out there so that people understand the risks associated with such a dangerous profession. I think that's really all this thread is doing.


Respectfully disagree. OP is being alarmist. Yes, there are risks of going to law school. Given OP's situation, however, the risks are not as dramatic as he or she makes them seem to be.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri May 01, 2015 2:28 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:Mayans fucked me. Thought 12/21/12 was a lock.



was counting on this too FMA

Anonymous User
Posts: 273498
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 01, 2015 3:01 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are we all really just a bunch of idiots?


Not all of us, but the vast majority of us. Yes.

It's more of a series of bad decisions than the way the OP described it to the immigrant though. No one sits there at 17 and thinks "I can't wait to waste the next 7 years of my life and 250k to get a law degree!" It's more like "I'm gonna go to college cuz that's what I'm supposed to do," followed by "I'm gonna fuck around and get a shitty GPA cuz that's what everyone else is doing and it's more fun," then "I hate my job and hate working generally and need to find an easy out that's less stigmatizing than welfare for life," to "A high LSAT is all? Really?" and then finally you're here.

I totally agree. Lawyers are just dumber/lazier on average than most other college grads who go on to have careers as professionals. And the ones who aren't dumb/lazy are inordinately uncreative. I had a fairly average career before law school in tech and considered myself to be of average intelligence. I dominated law school, however, because the caliber of individual in law school is just much lower (even though I went to T14).


I totally disagree. I went to an elite undergrad, an elite law school, have a hard science masters from in an elite program, and worked at a prestigious and competitive job post-undergrad. My HYS law school classes are probably the smartest general group of people I know (oh, and I also did substantially better in law school than in undergrad).

I also feel, looking at what my non-law friends do, that some of this belly-aching is just a generational thing. We were all told when we were young to seek lovely perfect careers -- when, in fact, there are really few jobs that exist that are thoroughly great. I hear this same "woe is me" chorus coming from just about everyone I know. I don't think lawyers are uniquely frustrated (nor are we uniquely in debt). For what it's worth, I'd take what I'm doing over what 90-95% of my non-lawyer friends my age from similar backgrounds are doing any day (and the exceptions are things that I couldn't have done--like get a PhD in geosciences--given my undergrad major). I generally get paid more, feel like the work I'm doing is challenging and actually impacts the world in a positive way, and have a solid work-life balance. Sure, law is hard and debt sucks. But I wouldn't trade it for ibanking, accounting, medical residency, or k-12 teaching, let alone the many non-professional or semi-professional jobs that most people our age seem to be stuck in.

What would you rather be doing instead of law? Some jobs, like accounting or being an actuary, may present a better debt-to-earnings picture (at least over the short term). But would you really rather be an accountant? That sounds horrible to me. I'm pretty happy to leave some economic utility on the table in order to do something I like somewhat.

Cogburn87
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:26 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby Cogburn87 » Fri May 01, 2015 4:17 pm

Oh, those lazy millennials! They just don't want to work hard!

User avatar
KD35
Posts: 948
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:30 am

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby KD35 » Fri May 01, 2015 4:36 pm

I think it matters what your result is. I know this is taboo here but at lower ranked school paying almost nothing and in a situation where I won't be laden with the 250k debt AND (which is key) basically have a solid and well paying for law school job lined up. Bigger risk by going to lower ranked school? Absolutely. But also getting the benefits of that by having the post big law flexibility that those at t10s with much more loans have. Obviously this isn't par for the course, but if you can beat the statistics idk if LS for extremely little is bad.

User avatar
Yukos
Posts: 1775
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:47 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby Yukos » Fri May 01, 2015 4:45 pm

KD35 wrote:I think it matters what your result is. I know this is taboo here but at lower ranked school paying almost nothing and in a situation where I won't be laden with the 250k debt AND (which is key) basically have a solid and well paying for law school job lined up. Bigger risk by going to lower ranked school? Absolutely. But also getting the benefits of that by having the post big law flexibility that those at t10s with much more loans have. Obviously this isn't par for the course, but if you can beat the statistics idk if LS for extremely little is bad.


I don't think TLS is generally against going to lower ranked schools as long as it's

a) for free or basically free

b) in an area you want to practice and will probably be able to hired in and

c) done with reasonable career goals.

People get in trouble when they move across the country and take out a ton of debt to go to Penn State because it's the highest ranked school they got into and they want big law.

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9651
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby jbagelboy » Fri May 01, 2015 7:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I totally disagree. I went to an elite undergrad, an elite law school, have a hard science masters from in an elite program, and worked at a prestigious and competitive job post-undergrad. My HYS law school classes are probably the smartest general group of people I know (oh, and I also did substantially better in law school than in undergrad).

I also feel, looking at what my non-law friends do, that some of this belly-aching is just a generational thing. We were all told when we were young to seek lovely perfect careers -- when, in fact, there are really few jobs that exist that are thoroughly great. I hear this same "woe is me" chorus coming from just about everyone I know. I don't think lawyers are uniquely frustrated (nor are we uniquely in debt). For what it's worth, I'd take what I'm doing over what 90-95% of my non-lawyer friends my age from similar backgrounds are doing any day (and the exceptions are things that I couldn't have done--like get a PhD in geosciences--given my undergrad major). I generally get paid more, feel like the work I'm doing is challenging and actually impacts the world in a positive way, and have a solid work-life balance. Sure, law is hard and debt sucks. But I wouldn't trade it for ibanking, accounting, medical residency, or k-12 teaching, let alone the many non-professional or semi-professional jobs that most people our age seem to be stuck in.

What would you rather be doing instead of law? Some jobs, like accounting or being an actuary, may present a better debt-to-earnings picture (at least over the short term). But would you really rather be an accountant? That sounds horrible to me. I'm pretty happy to leave some economic utility on the table in order to do something I like somewhat.


jaja, my elite law school classmates are very capable and intelligent and I have a lot of respect for them too. Great group of people. Not really the point though, the top of any selective structure will filter competent and hard working people. Biglaw_V20's comments were absurd on their face, but the underlying premise of the OP is not that law students are functionally stupid, but that they made questionable choices and could have put themselves to other use

I also think law school tends to attract a certain kind of very vocal, verbal, immediate intelligence -- articulate individuals who can assert themselves and impress in a public manner. not that they lack substance, but you mind find them the "smartest" group in a different way from those in scientific research or in the arts.
Last edited by jbagelboy on Fri May 01, 2015 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri May 01, 2015 7:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I totally disagree. I went to an elite undergrad, an elite law school, have a hard science masters from in an elite program, and worked at a prestigious and competitive job post-undergrad. My HYS law school classes are probably the smartest general group of people I know (oh, and I also did substantially better in law school than in undergrad).

I also feel, looking at what my non-law friends do, that some of this belly-aching is just a generational thing. We were all told when we were young to seek lovely perfect careers -- when, in fact, there are really few jobs that exist that are thoroughly great. I hear this same "woe is me" chorus coming from just about everyone I know. I don't think lawyers are uniquely frustrated (nor are we uniquely in debt). For what it's worth, I'd take what I'm doing over what 90-95% of my non-lawyer friends my age from similar backgrounds are doing any day (and the exceptions are things that I couldn't have done--like get a PhD in geosciences--given my undergrad major). I generally get paid more, feel like the work I'm doing is challenging and actually impacts the world in a positive way, and have a solid work-life balance. Sure, law is hard and debt sucks. But I wouldn't trade it for ibanking, accounting, medical residency, or k-12 teaching, let alone the many non-professional or semi-professional jobs that most people our age seem to be stuck in.

What would you rather be doing instead of law? Some jobs, like accounting or being an actuary, may present a better debt-to-earnings picture (at least over the short term). But would you really rather be an accountant? That sounds horrible to me. I'm pretty happy to leave some economic utility on the table in order to do something I like somewhat.


You had me there for a second, but the bolded gave you away as either a 0L or poorly crafted flame. No legal job pays well and "actually impacts the world in a positive way." Unless you're an AUSA or something, in which case 1) your GS salary is not really all that competitive with non-legal salaries (although I suppose there's a plausible argument to make here) and 2) you're the top 1% of law graduates who actually should have gone to law school and made a good decision. I never meant to claim that the tippy top of the legal profession is dumber/lazier/less-well-off. In fact, the tippy top of the legal profession is disproportionately well off (intellectually and otherwise) relative to the bottom of the legal profession when compared with the hierarchical order of other professions. The problem with the legal industry is that pretentious people like you (and law professors) brainwash the rest of us (dumber common folk) that because you succeed and are "having an impact," we all too can have an impact and great careers. That's just not true. And the fact of the matter is that your head is crammed so far up your ass that you can't even see how hard it is for the rest of us when our debt loads are much higher than literally every other graduate program (dentists and doctors don't count because almost all of them are guaranteed six-figure jobs for life (and with much better hours than an average attorney)).

One thing I've found is that lawyers, more than any other group of people I know, are much more open and willing to talk (i.e., brag) about their successes when they are clearly successful and much less willing to EVER admit ANY kind of deficiency in themselves whatsoever. For some particularly mentally ill attorneys, this psychosis bleeds over into the delusion that the entire legal profession is something other than a giant shitty mess for the vast majority of us with a select few living large at the top. You may fall into this latter category.

dingus
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:22 am

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby dingus » Fri May 01, 2015 8:06 pm

the scholarship

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15417
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: Why the fuck does anyone go to law school?

Postby sublime » Fri May 01, 2015 8:07 pm

..




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.