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BlueLotus wrote:What advice did I not listen to?

It is better to intern somewhere for more than just a semester or summer. 2 months is too short a time to see a case from start to finish. I don't understand what is so "crazy" or irrational about that. I would like to go back to the org I interned for my 1L summer because at least there is a nonzero chance that they will hire me FTLT. That's being smart.

Looking forward to the lunch meeting with that random small firm attorney who consoled me on the train and gave me his business card. Hopefully he can pull some strings for me. Fingers crossed.

Holly Golightly wrote:

BlueLotus wrote:I can't work for a new org this fall. If I did that, then my one page resume would become two pages and my two page fellowship resume would become three pages, which would look ridiculous. I have like seven fucking unpaid legal internships under my belt, and it would look strange to add an eighth one. I have to either continue working for my current org, or return to intern at one of the orgs that I previously worked at in the same city.

This is the worst reasoning I have ever heard.

swampman wrote:

BlueLotus wrote:What advice did I not listen to?

It is better to intern somewhere for more than just a semester or summer. 2 months is too short a time to see a case from start to finish. I don't understand what is so "crazy" or irrational about that. I would like to go back to the org I interned for my 1L summer because at least there is a nonzero chance that they will hire me FTLT. That's being smart.

Looking forward to the lunch meeting with that random small firm attorney who consoled me on the train and gave me his business card. Hopefully he can pull some strings for me. Fingers crossed.

Really don't want to pile on here, and hoping the train connection pans out, and going back to an org you already interned for doesn't seem like a bad idea if there's a chance of turning it into a full-time gig.

That said, not wanting to find a new job because you don't have a free line on your resume is pretty crazy. As for the reward you feel from seeing a case from start to finish, I think the suggestion was that you find a new job so that you can build another connection that might lead to a fellowship, regardless of what personal satisfaction you get from the new job (and you won't be able to see a case from start to finish if you go back to the 1L employer, anyway).

swampman wrote:

BlueLotus wrote:What advice did I not listen to?

It is better to intern somewhere for more than just a semester or summer. 2 months is too short a time to see a case from start to finish. I don't understand what is so "crazy" or irrational about that. I would like to go back to the org I interned for my 1L summer because at least there is a nonzero chance that they will hire me FTLT. That's being smart.

Looking forward to the lunch meeting with that random small firm attorney who consoled me on the train and gave me his business card. Hopefully he can pull some strings for me. Fingers crossed.

Really don't want to pile on here, and hoping the train connection pans out, and going back to an org you already interned for doesn't seem like a bad idea if there's a chance of turning it into a full-time gig.

That said, not wanting to find a new job because you don't have a free line on your resume is pretty crazy. As for the reward you feel from seeing a case from start to finish, I think the suggestion was that you find a new job so that you can build another connection that might lead to a fellowship, regardless of what personal satisfaction you get from the new job (and you won't be able to see a case from start to finish if you go back to the 1L employer, anyway).

BlueLotus wrote: I'd prefer not to drop internships from my resume, since PI orgs want to see the breadth of public service experience you have (also, if I drop internships, then I would have gaps on my resume, and employers will wonder what I was doing with my life during that period.)

worldtraveler wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm sorry that this happened, but it may not be about you - they may have policies in place about how they handle fellows that exclude you, but don't have anything to do with what they think about your work. I know that doesn't make not getting the sponsor any better, but if you can, don't let it make you feel bad about your work there, because it may not be anything to do with that at all. Don't let it shake your confidence.

This, and you can also ask your supervisor for a more detailed performance review. If there is a reason why they rejected you, it's better to know that now because maybe it's something you can work on. Otherwise you might learn it has nothing to do with you. Sponsoring a fellow is actually a ton of work for an organization and some of them just don't want to do it, or maybe like Nony says there is some kind of policy or criteria that excludes you but has nothing to do with your work.

ETA: I also wouldn't read too much into them failing to read the application. Attorneys are busy and if they knew they couldn't take a fellow, they're not going to read it even if it's from the most amazing intern ever.

haus wrote:

Holly Golightly wrote:

BlueLotus wrote:I can't work for a new org this fall. If I did that, then my one page resume would become two pages and my two page fellowship resume would become three pages, which would look ridiculous. I have like seven fucking unpaid legal internships under my belt, and it would look strange to add an eighth one. I have to either continue working for my current org, or return to intern at one of the orgs that I previously worked at in the same city.

This is the worst reasoning I have ever heard.

I am guessing that you do not spend a lot of time reading Trump statements.

Young Marino wrote:What's the TLS consensus on leaving only public service gigs on your resume even though you may have clerked for a semester at a small firm? Essentially leaving the firm gig off of the resume

dresden doll wrote:

worldtraveler wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm sorry that this happened, but it may not be about you - they may have policies in place about how they handle fellows that exclude you, but don't have anything to do with what they think about your work. I know that doesn't make not getting the sponsor any better, but if you can, don't let it make you feel bad about your work there, because it may not be anything to do with that at all. Don't let it shake your confidence.

This, and you can also ask your supervisor for a more detailed performance review. If there is a reason why they rejected you, it's better to know that now because maybe it's something you can work on. Otherwise you might learn it has nothing to do with you. Sponsoring a fellow is actually a ton of work for an organization and some of them just don't want to do it, or maybe like Nony says there is some kind of policy or criteria that excludes you but has nothing to do with your work.

ETA: I also wouldn't read too much into them failing to read the application. Attorneys are busy and if they knew they couldn't take a fellow, they're not going to read it even if it's from the most amazing intern ever.

My take: definitely ask for a more detailed performance review. It's entirely possible you were excluded based on a policy/criteria you didn't fit through no fault of your own, but the attorney's wording ("you would not be a good fit") implies otherwise.

BlueLotus wrote: Good idea, however, the Managing Attorney who humiliatingly dinged me for a fellowship without even reading my app within earshot of my coworkers is going on sabbatical very shortly, so unfortunately I will not have time to do a more detailed performance review. She is a pretty loud person so I wish she had fucking closed the door to my office when she decided to break the bad news to me. Now everyone in the office knows that I am a fuck-up/loser, and shit is really awkward.

My immediate supervisor (Senior Staff Attorney) and the other Staff Attorneys have provided overwhelmingly positive feedback regarding my performance. If something was wrong with my work, they should have spoken up--I'd love to hear constructive criticism. The Managing Attorney who dinged me has not observed any of my client intakes/meetings--who is she to say that I am a poor fit? I am not a flawless summer associate by any means and have made minor errors here and there (i.e. mailing a medical records request instead of faxing it) but overall I think that I am competent, ethical and diligent. Oh well. Fail. Probably the first of many fails to come!

BlueLotus wrote:Thanks for your thoughtful reply zor. I hope this lunch meeting with the random train attorney yields some results. Unfortunately it is late in the game for applying for fall internships so I can't be choosy. Hopefully my 1L summer employer will offer me a fellowship sponsorship. I am also looking at the immigration place I volunteered for during my spring and winter breaks. I have an informational interview with the executive director of yet another immigration org on August 9. Fingers crossed.

Last week I was soooo excited, radiant and energized to go to work. It's really sad how things have changed since last Friday. 3 more weeks left and I will never have to face that Managing Attorney again. I will still work my ass off at my current internship. I won't let my upset feelings towards that Managing Attorney adversely impact my clients' interests.

zor wrote:

BlueLotus wrote:Thanks for your thoughtful reply zor. I hope this lunch meeting with the random train attorney yields some results. Unfortunately it is late in the game for applying for fall internships so I can't be choosy. Hopefully my 1L summer employer will offer me a fellowship sponsorship. I am also looking at the immigration place I volunteered for during my spring and winter breaks. I have an informational interview with the executive director of yet another immigration org on August 9. Fingers crossed.

Last week I was soooo excited, radiant and energized to go to work. It's really sad how things have changed since last Friday. 3 more weeks left and I will never have to face that Managing Attorney again. I will still work my ass off at my current internship. I won't let my upset feelings towards that Managing Attorney adversely impact my clients' interests.

I'm not sure where you are geographically, but if you're near any large urban center it's definitely not too late to apply for fall internships. I got one after the semester already started!

Also, while working for a place is a good jump point for sponsorship, remember you don't HAVE to work there. Many of my friends who won fellowships this year had never worked at their sponsor organizations. I would say it was half and half. You can just apply based on your experience and interests. Personally, I only applied for places I had never worked, but had a good narrative for, and have gotten three different interviews/interested parties.

I know how stressful it is. It'll be okay. Just remember that every lead is just that--a lead, not a certainty--so don't stop looking and applying and reaching out to people just because you think this might be the one. You never know where things may lead, and even sure things can wind up dead ends because of all kinds of reasons beyond your control. Definitely don't let this one supervisor get you down. I had a similar experience last summer (my 2L summer). I was at the org of my dreams. Turns out everyone there was a total jerk to me and I was miserable. Definitely didn't even bother applying to sponsor with them, and since then, nearly every attorney I worked for quit. You just never know what's going on in some places. On the opposite end of the spectrum, one org director who loved me and begged me to apply to sponsor with them (they were not in the city I wanted, though) was fired shortly after. So I could have been hosed. Anyway, since then, I've had MUCH better internship experiences with people who really like and support me. You'll find it, too, and the attorneys you work for where you are now who like you are going to be your contacts. THey may not be able to get you the sponsorship, but they will be really helpful later on, maybe connecting you to someone who can.

Re: small firm experience, agreed that it depends on what you're applying for and how you think you can spin it. I was a paralegal doing complex commercial litigation for four years before law school, and I always include it and spin it as experience with complex litigation--from discovery to trial. I would also include it if they have a good reputation. If you mostly wrote memos or did work that overlaps with your public interest work, you may want to leave it off.

swampman wrote:

BlueLotus wrote: Good idea, however, the Managing Attorney who humiliatingly dinged me for a fellowship without even reading my app within earshot of my coworkers is going on sabbatical very shortly, so unfortunately I will not have time to do a more detailed performance review. She is a pretty loud person so I wish she had fucking closed the door to my office when she decided to break the bad news to me. Now everyone in the office knows that I am a fuck-up/loser, and shit is really awkward.

My immediate supervisor (Senior Staff Attorney) and the other Staff Attorneys have provided overwhelmingly positive feedback regarding my performance. If something was wrong with my work, they should have spoken up--I'd love to hear constructive criticism. The Managing Attorney who dinged me has not observed any of my client intakes/meetings--who is she to say that I am a poor fit? I am not a flawless summer associate by any means and have made minor errors here and there (i.e. mailing a medical records request instead of faxing it) but overall I think that I am competent, ethical and diligent. Oh well. Fail. Probably the first of many fails to come!

Not joking or trying to be insulting—I think the therapy comment was spot-on. Being rejected for a fellowship, even in front of coworkers, is not "humiliating." And you said she complimented you, said you were detail-oriented, but that you weren't a good fit. You don't know what that means, because you don't want to ask her, but it's a stretch to jump to "fuck-up/loser." Maybe your school can match you with a counselor to talk things through with?

Holly Golightly wrote:

Young Marino wrote:What's the TLS consensus on leaving only public service gigs on your resume even though you may have clerked for a semester at a small firm? Essentially leaving the firm gig off of the resume

What specifically are you applying for, and could the small firm experience be spun as relevant in any way?

Young Marino wrote:

Holly Golightly wrote:

Young Marino wrote:What's the TLS consensus on leaving only public service gigs on your resume even though you may have clerked for a semester at a small firm? Essentially leaving the firm gig off of the resume

What specifically are you applying for, and could the small firm experience be spun as relevant in any way?

Mid-sized DA's office. Planning to highlight public service experience.

swampman wrote:

BlueLotus wrote: Good idea, however, the Managing Attorney who humiliatingly dinged me for a fellowship without even reading my app within earshot of my coworkers is going on sabbatical very shortly, so unfortunately I will not have time to do a more detailed performance review. She is a pretty loud person so I wish she had fucking closed the door to my office when she decided to break the bad news to me. Now everyone in the office knows that I am a fuck-up/loser, and shit is really awkward.

My immediate supervisor (Senior Staff Attorney) and the other Staff Attorneys have provided overwhelmingly positive feedback regarding my performance. If something was wrong with my work, they should have spoken up--I'd love to hear constructive criticism. The Managing Attorney who dinged me has not observed any of my client intakes/meetings--who is she to say that I am a poor fit? I am not a flawless summer associate by any means and have made minor errors here and there (i.e. mailing a medical records request instead of faxing it) but overall I think that I am competent, ethical and diligent. Oh well. Fail. Probably the first of many fails to come!

Not joking or trying to be insulting—I think the therapy comment was spot-on. Being rejected for a fellowship, even in front of coworkers, is not "humiliating." And you said she complimented you, said you were detail-oriented, but that you weren't a good fit. You don't know what that means, because you don't want to ask her, but it's a stretch to jump to "fuck-up/loser." Maybe your school can match you with a counselor to talk things through with?